Darel

So much for that legendary M-B reliability!

Has a continuous knocking noise from the engine, not really related to temperature. Was always there. Initially I did think it kinda sounded like piston slap or something, but nah....this is a Mercedes. I took it in to have it looked at and now I'm told I'm getting my engine rebuilt.

I did find a TSB and even an audio file (thanks konigstiger) on this. I don't know what my engine serial number is, only that it's a 276, so I don;t know if it falls into the range of the TSBs, but it is a very early 2014 model so I'm guessing it does.

The thing that really struck me was they only had the car for about 15 minutes before diagnosing the noise, because the service manager said they've had EIGHT of the same problem come through in the last 2-3 months! Really, eight? I am in northeast PA, my dealer is in Wilkes-Barre. This is, shall I say, an economically depressed area. I can't imagine there are a lot of M-Bs coming through here for service, and to have that many of them so recently has to be a significant percentage. It's not like I;m in Philly or NYC or something where there are thousands and thousands of them.

What's the deal? Is this really that pervasive of a problem?

What issues do I need to watch out for?

I do my own service. I have done it religiously with all M-B parts and I even print out a workorder for myself and take meticulous notes. Is there any way they can come back and deny a warranty claim based on not having a dealer perform services?

Thanks,
Darel

abqhudson

I know that this may not help, but:

You are not entitled to perfection.
Things happen.
That's life.

kajtek1

Isn't the factory warranty 3 years, 50k miles? You might still have it? DIY is fine if you keep oil purchase receipts.
If you are past warranty- Are you original owner?
If so, very often MBUSA will agree on goodwill warranty extension, although DIY service will not help here.
How do we know it wasn't you creating the problem?

Darel

Wow. Tough crowd.

First off, not expecting perfection. However, I am absolutely "entitled" to not having to replace the engine in my car every 3 years or 50,000 miles. Just wondering how widespread this wrist pin issue is. Sorry to have bothered you with my trivial "entitlement". Let's get back to important stuff like roof spoilers and carbon fiber mirror covers then.

To answer the followup questions, I am not the original owner. Car is still under CPO warranty. I bought it in May with about 30,000 miles. Currently reading about 54K. The service manager tells me it will be covered but I just wanted to prepare myself for any possible issues down the road when they get in there and tear the engine down.

kajtek1

You know, ... warranty has specified limits for reasons.
I think KIA is giving 100k miles?
Anyway, MB is one of the best cars, but they do ops from time to time. You bought a car with known ops, so either you calculated that in purchase price, but you were too lazy to do your homework.
My 2014 diesel with 178k miles runs perfect (although DPF gives me some headaches) and I think it is good for at least another 500k.
You do have warranty, I don't, so what is your complain?

jahquan3

You have every right to be concerned and this is a good place to find out of known issues with your specific model. Since you've spoken with Konigs I assume you've taken a look at the sticky that he often updates, also search around and you often will stumble on a specific answer you're looking for. MBs are typically extremely reliable especially the engines. I've only read of one person having to replace/rebuild their's on an E-Class since I've joined the forum.

I once had a loose pin connect in my cylinder 1 one which caused continuous misfiring. Lucky for me a tech used a boroscope and was able to notice that was the culprit and not something more sinister. All and all the pin connector cost me only about 8 bucks. I'm at just over 140,000 miles and I've had my fair share of issues but only really expensive item was replacing my front driver air suspension. Good luck and keep us posted on the final conclusion and results etc.

KEY08

warranty is 4 years/50,000 miles
I remember the days when a warranty was 1 year/12,000.
You have CPO and should be good to go. I am unaware of such a rampant issue with the M276. Maybe something in the water in your area.

kajtek1

BTW. I heard MB USA doesn't rebuild engines under warranty?
They seal them and send to Germany for inspection, while customers gets new one.

Jabberwock

@Kajtek your replies come across like you have a bug up your ***.

but thanks for the irrelevant diesel info...... very helpful

Darel

Yeah, I really feel like I rubbed some people the wrong way here, didn't realize premature engine failures were such a touchy subject and that despite the fact that it's a known documented issue (as verified by a TSB stating wrist pin tolerances were incorrect from the factory) it's all my fault and I'm lucky to have it happen to me. Yay, me.

I do have CPO and I just got off the phone with the service manager, they are rebuilding the engine under CPO, not crating it up and replacing it with new (yet). I would surmise since this is a known, chronic issue they don't really need to do a failure analysis, vs. some other random complete engine failure. The parts they ordered came to about $10K, however they cannot order a complete engine without first tearing down the old to see if it actually requires complete replacement (scored cylinders or whatever) but that option is on the table depending on what they find during the teardown. The complete engine would be around $20K. Also noticed a leaking seal on the front diff that I missed, and they offered to change that under warranty too. Honestly I'm OK with the rebuild, but what can I do to ensure the rebuild is done right? Since the TSB refers to specific engine numbers (which they verified, mine is one of those), that tells me they found a definite issue in certain lot numbers of the manufacturing process. So is it reasonable to ask to see something like a date code or serial numbers on the parts they install to ensure they are "correct"? Can I expect them to extend the warranty on the engine, or at least the scope of the work they perform, out beyond that of the CPO?

@Key08, yeah, even searching through here I found only one instance of this same issue, which was where I got the information Konigstiger posted about the TSB. Maybe people around me don't know how to use the interwebs yet.

I'm a complete gearhead, although right now I have enough to wrench on. That said I'd love to be able to hang around the shop for a while when they are working on this!

Thank you all for the constructive comments!

D

kajtek1

Well.. maybe you are one of those who like to sniff gasoline, but somebody might appreciate the knowledge that MB builds bulletproof diesels for generations.
Last one who had some problems was 350 diesel from like 25 years ago. Still lot of them still on the road.
Coming back to OP issue. he is getting new/rebuild engine for free even he paid small % of original price for the car.
What is the bashing about?

Oda112

Sorry to hear that! Don't let some people here get to you, they just love their cars too much and will get upset if you suggest they crap out, just like any other car brands out there.
I'm amazed this issue is still going on, I was thinking it was only affecting early models of the M272 V6, apparently MB didn't learn their lesson. I'd be curious to hear what that sounded like, if you have it recorded. I'm suspecting a similar issue on my M273( the older NA V8 used on the prefacelift W212) but I've been driving it like that for the past 10k miles and it didn't get any worse. I've had oil analysis done on it and it came back ok, no debris in it or unusual wear. Mine makes the knocking/timing chain slap only when the oil gets warm and it goes away once the engine is revved upwards of 1500 rpm. Was yours audible from the cabin, while driving and/or idling?

Darel

I don't have a recording, sorry, but if you search for the issue and find konigstiger's post on it, he provides an audio clip. Honestly it sounded more to me like timing chain slap, but I knew deep down it could also be piston slap - I just couldn't believe it. I took it in assuming the tensioner seal or the tensioner itself was bad. I had a Dodge Dakota, which came with plastic-coated steel timing gears (Really? Really, Dodge? Really?) and when the plastic coating wore off it created just enough slack in the chain for it to rattle around a bit. It was almost exactly the same noise.

Kinda sounded like a woody rattle. Not rhythmic, like it would fade in and out as it sat there idling. Increased with engine RPM. Initially I could only hear it outside the car with the hood open but it got louder, enough that I could hear it when driving with the radio on. However, not deafeningly loud. Just enough to know it was there. Even the service manager commented, "sounds like a woodpecker". Audible both when driving and idling. No difference warm or cold, hot oil, cool oil, pretty much always the same. Dammit, now I'm pissed I just did an oil change two weeks ago. Oh, yeah, no change after the oil change either.

fosterelli

What kind of forum help are you providing to a fellow owner here? Holy crap. If you don't have something to offer, other than your exceptional life wisdom to bestow upon us, why post some BS like this?

Really? Did you really just ask a forum member this? Why?

Wow. Just wow. This forum is really going downhill thanks to members posting crap that doesn't help the OP. These posts offer no value to any of us. The OP clearly was letting us know of his problems, and sounds like a problem in his region right now, which can be helpful to us...and furthermore was asking if we know of any patterns concerning this. Calling him lazy and saying he has no reason to gripe about an engine failure? $h!t, pure stinky crappy $h!t. We expect better here.

What's this have to do with the OP's questions? Nothing. Warranty or not, and what was paid for the vehicle as a CPO vs. original price, WTH are you trying to say???

Y'all should give us a break and quit preaching and judging. Stop clogging up threads with meaningless posts. Help, offer applicable advice, add real value to this forum, or shut up and quit being keyboard warrior nannies. It's the holidays, a new year is going to start, let's be nice and help each other...the world is jacked up enough! And hey, when y'all need help, we'll be here to offer our assistance - not criticism and pointless chatter. This forum can be as great as we make it...or we can keep dragging it down, at which point all of the good members will migrate to other sites...and this forum will be stuck with whatever is left.

OP - you should not worry about dealer/MB warranty voids for self-maintenance. I've never had an issue with any manufacturer over the years. Especially if your dealer has a bunch of them going through lately. But if you get the vibe that something may be a problem, gather up some "proof" of services, at least in relation to the failure (oil/filter). Easy to come up with in a jam. And worst case, they'd have to really prove lack of maintenance caused the issue...don't expect that from MB unless they were replacing a major high-end AMG engine and already knew it was truly a lack of maintenance situation.

Fred2

So much for

The best, or nothing.

Darel

This is point-for-point what I was thinking at first but didn't really feel like alienating myself further. Thank you so much for making me realize it's not me.

aquinob

If it were my car, I'd be pissed, even if it was covered under some sort of warranty. Anything built these days, domestic or import should be able to last well above 100k or more miles with normal maintenance and if it doesn't, the manufacturer should stand by it and fix it. If it is a systemic issue, they should issue a TSB or recall. And brands like MB that cost much more than a GM or Ford have higher expectations from the folks that buy them and a higher standard to live up to. If they don't, then you are just buying an image, nothing more.

MBNUT1

The whole reason I own a Mercedes and am on this board is that years ago my dad got fed up with American cars who's engines couldn't make 50k miles without wearing out. Mercedes had a reputation for lasting 100K miles (this is 1960) and being able to run all day floorboarded. Add to that Mercedes hand built craftsmanship and commitment to pioneering safety innovation. Being an engineer of German descent that was all my dad needed to move to Mercedes and the rest is history.

Obviously it is wholey unacceptable to have a major engine issue at 50K miles in 2017 for any manufacturer is not clear why the wrist pin tolerances were incorrect and mistakes do happen at least Mercedes did own up to it and issued a TSB.and will repair the engine free of cost.

kajtek1

You do make interesting personal preaching and looks like you are gathering audience, but IMHO you should seek different forum as this is a technical one and your technical knowledge sucks and your advise can cost OP over $20,000 if followed.
Down in diesel section you will find long topic, where MB USA declined warranty coverage on dealer-maintained engine who seized at 50k for what looks like wrong oil used. So yes, MB USA is not slapping free repairs like you are suggesting.
One more time- the oil receipts might turn crucial in the case.

Oda112

Kris, let it go, you guys were too harsh on him to begin with. This whole thing reminded me of the BMW forums, everyone had to be belligerent for no good reason. We have to stay above that here, aren't MB owners supposed to have a sightly less elevated -10 bpm) heart rate anyway? (less drama). He is right in being upset with MB, a 50k engine rebuilt shouldn't be necessary with this car brand, I honestly think the same. Also, he doesn't seem to be the type who would kill his own engine with wrong maintenance, you'd have to use spent frying oil to be able to kill an MB engine in 50k.
Also, Mercedes Benz SHOULD HAVE learned their lesson from the same type of malfunction on the previous V6, you know that! I don't buy hudson's " it happens, that's life" BS, this is not an isolated nor a new occurrence, regardless, it should not be a situation an MB owner should find themselves in.

Johnny Rad

nc211

I had a co-worker who bought a GL350 (I believe 2014), that had to have the entire engine redone inside of 5,000 original miles because there was a knocking sound inside the engine from day 1. Brand spanking new, and new engine before the first oil change.

fosterelli

Bro, give it up. No technical advice was offered by me (or you) - and this forum is not technical by normal definitions...not sure what you call technical but certainly not what you've offered.

Good luck though, keep slamming members here, it gains you a lot of respect.

MBNUT1

+1

s140s

+10000000000 , hahahahahaha technical my butt. This forum is very far from technical, when I asked about diagram for rear tail light to get my trailer light harness installed, all I got is deer in the headlight look and bunch of nonsense about using e350 for towing a 700lbs jet ski. Until the snobish owners with warranty get rid of these cars, there will never be trial and error testing or proper info.