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E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550

Reliability

 
Old 12-03-2018, 11:47 AM
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Reliability

First off, I know a lot of people do not like Consumer Reports. If that is the case, ignore this thread.
Noticed that the newest issue of CR's car buying magazine shows the "E" Class has dropped significantly in reliability compared to a few years ago. The ratings are based on surveys completed by thousands of actual owners and cover the last three model years. Not sure, but I think E Class was down around 7th for mid-size luxury cars. FYI: Lincoln Continental was first and Genesis G80 was second.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:09 PM
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I dig the new E class interior, but am not a fan of it's exterior appearance. I have not followed the W213 on the forum to see if it is holding up and what the problem areas may be. The Lincoln Continental garnering a top spot does not surprise me. The Hyundai doesn't surprise me either.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KEY08 View Post
I dig the new E class interior, but am not a fan of it's exterior appearance. I have not followed the W213 on the forum to see if it is holding up and what the problem areas may be. The Lincoln Continental garnering a top spot does not surprise me. The Hyundai doesn't surprise me either.
I agree with you as the exterior alone would keep me out of the new "E" Class. While the Continental appears to be reliable, it is also fairly expensive (even compared to an M-B). They sell about 700 per month, so it is probably doomed to being phased out. Ford is pretty much phasing out most of its sedans and the Continental shares a platform with the Fusion.
The Genesis is a well made, stylish, less costly car. But, the limited number of authorized dealers is going to be a problem. Their valet service to your door ends after three years.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:14 PM
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I just checked some of the Genesis dealers around me here in Chicago and obviously they are an adjunct to the main Hyundai dealership. I was checking on inventory and it was very sparse, with only a handful (literally) of available 2018-19 models. Both G80 and G90. Are all dealerships like this with only 5-10 cars in stock? Do most people custom order the Genesis cars? I like having options of available used inventory to negotiate on. I will add that $58-$60K for a loaded G80 is appealing. You are dead right about Ford and the disappearing sedan. Unfortunately, sedans in general are not popular cars anymore across all manufacturers.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:05 PM
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I can definitely say that the 2011 E350 4matic is a very reliable car. It seems like Mercedes reliability may come in cycles LOL
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:29 PM
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looks should not be criteria for Consumer reports....
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
First off, I know a lot of people do not like Consumer Reports. If that is the case, ignore this thread.
Noticed that the newest issue of CR's car buying magazine shows the "E" Class has dropped significantly in reliability compared to a few years ago. The ratings are based on surveys completed by thousands of actual owners and cover the last three model years. Not sure, but I think E Class was down around 7th for mid-size luxury cars. FYI: Lincoln Continental was first and Genesis G80 was second.
When was the last time the best car by CR was not a U.S. based car?
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:32 PM
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Just a different set of expectations. In this forum you hear rants and raves from people who expected more. Maybe if you're driving a Hyundai, you're happy if it starts.

The problem with their data is that it's a different group of people every year with different expectations.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by KEY08 View Post
I just checked some of the Genesis dealers around me here in Chicago and obviously they are an adjunct to the main Hyundai dealership. I was checking on inventory and it was very sparse, with only a handful (literally) of available 2018-19 models. Both G80 and G90. Are all dealerships like this with only 5-10 cars in stock? Do most people custom order the Genesis cars? I like having options of available used inventory to negotiate on. I will add that $58-$60K for a loaded G80 is appealing. You are dead right about Ford and the disappearing sedan. Unfortunately, sedans in general are not popular cars anymore across all manufacturers.
I did a search for Genesis vehicles within 50 miles. Only one dealership and only two G80's on lot. The Hyundai dealers are no longer permitted to sell the Genesis make, but can provide routine service but no warranty work.
Originally Posted by 300SE1993 View Post
I can definitely say that the 2011 E350 4matic is a very reliable car. It seems like Mercedes reliability may come in cycles LOL
My 2010 had several problems and a new one has surfaced which goes back to a 2015 non-fulfilled TSB.

Originally Posted by ygmn View Post
looks should not be criteria for Consumer reports....
Don't understand. CR does not use looks as a criteria for reliability reporting. They may comment on it when doing new car reviews, but all do that. Current Toyota & Lexus models almost always receive negative comments re: front end looks.

Originally Posted by Arrie View Post
When was the last time the best car by CR was not a U.S. based car?
Are you asking about new car recommendations? In that case, "S" class and Lexus 460 were both best cars in luxury class. Honda, Toyota and I think even Hyundai, Mazda, Nissan show up in other categories and some are made in Asia. Suburu is a perennial best car.
I would have to do some research on most reliable cars. Generally speaking that is going to be Asian all the way..
This particular topic was for mid-sized luxury cars and only Continental and Cadillac are American makes.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:11 PM
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"The option that you don't have can't fail you"
Its been for years that when MB needs 3 fingers to close the door- that gives him low ratings becouse that is not expected.
Nissans who need knee kick to close get top ratings on other hand. Nobody expect them to work smoothly.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kajtek1 View Post
"The option that you don't have can't fail you"
Its been for years that when MB needs 3 fingers to close the door- that gives him low ratings becouse that is not expected.
Nissans who need knee kick to close get top ratings on other hand. Nobody expect them to work smoothly.
I understand that this is an attempt at humor, but still is not valid. If what you purchased doesn't work properly, it is unreliable.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:42 PM
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No, this is real life at its best.
I started driving Mb back in 1997 when we bought new ML320. The break-thru technology was having bad reviews left and right. Probably in those years only Yugo could generate worse reviews than ML.
But I order mine in basic trim. No sunroof, no GPS, no leather, no power seats. So the car was staying with the family for 13 year/130k miles and all it took in those 13 years was about $300 in failed parts. Make it 25 bucks a year to upkeep MB plus regural service, where I kept for long years dealer's receipt $80 for service A (MB used dino oils at the time)
At the time we had a snow-skiers team where we have been sharing our vehicles. Friend bought at the same time Nissan Pathfinder.
The SUV was having much smaller legroom than ML. It was much lounder, was bottoming out on freeway bumps with 4 guys in it. Than it was guzzling much more gasoline with less HP. and it took really good slam to close the door.
So what reviews Nissan got? All the best and it was recommended as top of the class.

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Old 12-04-2018, 06:51 PM
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I'm with El Cid on this. Most brands pretty have similar options and features available these days. And ditto for safety features as well. Where MB does poor, IMHO, are those major repairs that pop and ding your wallet big time. For example, my turbo boot cracked for no reason with only 40K on the odo. My buddy's e wagon had wheel bearing issues. Again at less than 20K miles. CR isn't necessarily reporting on things like poor nav systems or frumpy sounding doors or unresponsive audio systems. They have different sections for everything. The stuff that I'm worried about are major repairs which is tracked by CR pretty well.

Also the comment about having different groups of people filling out CR survey at different times makes no sense. Statistical processes can correct for bias in the sampling and correct for errors so long as the sample size is quite large. That is why CR won't publish data on some cars because they don't have enough to clean the data.

You all (and I) have a behavioral character called confirmation bias - meaning that we rationalize the expensive choice we made to purchase our cars. Let's admit that first.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mellonc View Post
Also the comment about having different groups of people filling out CR survey at different times makes no sense. Statistical processes can correct for bias in the sampling and correct for errors so long as the sample size is quite large. That is why CR won't publish data on some cars because they don't have enough to clean the data.
Just how big of a sample size do you think CR has to work with? Considering that the E class sells maybe 50-60k a year vs Toyota or Honda which may do 200-300k a year or more. Plus Hyundai only sold about 16k cars in 2017 and 2018 isn't look so good with about 7300 so far.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...s/genesis-g80/

You think statistical processes can correct for some bias, but sometimes it's hard to get a good figure on it. Just look at the last presidential election and the polling. Historically it has been way off even in the past. It's just too small a sample size in this particular case to have any meaning.

Plus when you buy a car that only sells 7-16k, good luck finding 3rd party manufacturers for parts or finding parts in the junkyard or on eBay. We're stuck with OEM on lots of parts on MB as it is just because of a limited market.
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Old 12-04-2018, 07:50 PM
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The most enjoyable and reliable vehicles I have ever owned have been VW GTIís over the past 10 years (3 of them). The most aggravating and costly I have ever owned have both been Lexus. Iím 45 years old. So....thatís what I think of Consumer Reports.

Quiet and smooth because of 400lbs of foam doesn't hold a candle to quiet and smooth because of engineering. I highly doubt anyone at consumer reports knows how to hang a picture themselves, mind you actually understand mechanical/electrical/structural engineering.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:38 PM
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I'm a consumer report magazine subscriber so I do get those annual survey. Haven't fill any out in at least 15 years. Maybe I should fill it out next time I see it to help out our E instead of throwing it to trash. It's might not too as I do have jerky shift sometimes from 4>3, eco not working unless long drive (probably aux battery need to be change), random lane keep assist inoperative and auto high beam working inoperative (both errors go in tandem at same time when they show up) gremlin. The gremlin usually go away like 4-8 hours later or next day.

They mail out the survey to all their subscribers so it's pretty accurate (I'll say 80-90% accurate). My friends and I had Honda Accord and Acura TL that was recommended by CR, and other car magazines(car and driver, motor trend, Road and track) that had transmission issues that were never recalled. One even had 2 new transmission in 3 years, after that, she got rid of it fast.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...liability-faq/
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ts-tests-cars/
They buy their own car for testing, not using the press car for testing. In fact, they got one of their subsciber's Testla model 3 to test out earlier this year since it was hard to get a car(buy it) when testla has production issues. It was their brake testing that force Elan Musk to apply over the air update to all testla within a week of the report. I really wish MB will have OTA updates in their future generations so we don't have to go to dealer for updates. Yes, I'll gladly paid the $100 annual data connectivity fee that testla charges that include map updates and new functions added.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cetialpha5 View Post
Just how big of a sample size do you think CR has to work with? Considering that the E class sells maybe 50-60k a year vs Toyota or Honda which may do 200-300k a year or more. Plus Hyundai only sold about 16k cars in 2017 and 2018 isn't look so good with about 7300 so far.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...s/genesis-g80/

You think statistical processes can correct for some bias, but sometimes it's hard to get a good figure on it. Just look at the last presidential election and the polling. Historically it has been way off even in the past. It's just too small a sample size in this particular case to have any meaning.

Plus when you buy a car that only sells 7-16k, good luck finding 3rd party manufacturers for parts or finding parts in the junkyard or on eBay. We're stuck with OEM on lots of parts on MB as it is just because of a limited market.
You appear to be comparing apples to oranges here. You mention "E" Class sales and then Toyota, Honda and Hyundai. Are you speaking of total sales or sales for specific vehicles. Especially Hyundai which sells far more than 16,000 cars per year, but I think you meant Genesis. Which is separate from Hyundai now, although it is part of the Hyundai Corp.
Regardless, Consumer Reports has a defined standard for response requirements. If they do not receive an adequate, statistically valid number, they do not publish the results.

I don't understand what you meant by "Plus when you buy a car that only sells 7-16k, good luck finding 3rd party manufacturers for parts or finding parts in the junkyard or on eBay. We're stuck with OEM on lots of parts on MB as it is just because of a limited market."
Your post only refers to Hyundai as selling 7,000-16,000 vehicles, but then you say "we're stuck with OEM on lots of parts on MB because of a limited market." Your post says 50,000-60,000 "E" Classes sold per year.
Are you saying you prefer to find your M-B parts in junkyards or on eBay? As for Hyundai, there are a lot of third party sources for parts and service for these vehicles.
As for M-B, many of the OEM parts on M-B's are actually manufactured by a third party to begin with. I remember when I had a Saab 900 Turbo and it was hard to start, especially in the cold. The regulator was actually a Bosch part and was exactly the same as on M-B and BMW and probably other European vehicles. Some parts may say M-B, but same one is stamped BMW, Volvo, VW, Audi, etc. when manufactured.

Regardless, a Mercedes-Benz, especially the "E" Class should be at the top of the list for reliability not near the bottom. At one time, it did rank number one (maybe two) for reliability and for years was M-B's most reliable vehicle. The Best or Nothing.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Arrie View Post
When was the last time the best car by CR was not a U.S. based car?
Toyota and Honda usually get high marks. Audi and Lexus are usually in the top 5 in reliability.

Personally, I'm very skeptical of Genisis or any Hyundai/Kia. My experience with family members owning several (though no longer due to their negative experience) is that they are decent cars until around 60-70K miles and then they fall apart. Their advertised 100K warranty covers almost nothing after 50K.
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