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You did it on 2016 model? The reports about double clicks not turning the key off were for 2014 models.
Than even if you have MY where it works, key buttons are often pressed when in the pocket.
What are the chances you will not activate they key while pulling change at McD ?
You did it on 2016 model? The reports about double clicks not turning the key off were for 2014 models.
Yes, indeed, mine is a 2016 MY. Picture of the key is in the faraday cup in the OP. I believe that all keys of that design turn off with the double-click on the lock button. Can't imagine why there would be differences from year to year. Although when I look through the 14MY manual, I do not see the section on how to "Deactivate Keyless-Go" that appears on pg. 91 of my manual.
Originally Posted by kajtek1
Than even if you have MY where it works, key buttons are often pressed when in the pocket.
What are the chances you will not activate they key while pulling change at McD ?
Well, that's true. You can push buttons unintentionally. I don't think there is any way to guard against that, unless the fob is the only item in a front pocket (as in my case). I don't carry change, only bills... I throw the coins into the coin bin in the car's center console the minute I hit the seat.
To answer you question, it basically uses public/private key encryption. No person needs to activate it. That's just the way keyless go works on the car. You basically walk up to the car and the car recognizes that you have the key fob on you and the doors unlock when it's detected and the car starts. It's actually pretty accurate because it can tell if your key is in the car or not which prevents you from actually locking the key in the car by accident. They are not sniffing, they're just rebroadcasting the signal. It's public/private key encryption. A code is sent out by the car and the key responds, all the thieves do is rebroadcast those signals so the car thinks the key fob is right next to it when it's actually in the house. The key fob range is normally pretty short so when it's in the house, it shouldn't work. To stop that method from working, if the key is in a faraday cage, the cage blocks the signal from being transmitted so even if you broadcast the signal from the car, the key fob can't respond. Electrical engineer here so I hope that helps.
Thank you, I had no idea that the key always broadcasts, or does it need to be interrogated from the car first? If not then constant RF in your pocket?
I believe that the car basically asks the key for a code. If it's the right code, the car unlocks/starts. So the car asks, the key responds.
If all facelift W212s are Keyless-Go then that makes some sense. My question is how do non Keyless-Go cars work with their key fobs?
Prior MBs unlocked when the key fob was proactively pressed, leading me to believe that the key starts the sequence. Whether the car is always in listening (or asking) mode is the question.
It doesn't make sense to me that these cars would have separate wireless systems for Keyless-Go vs non Keyless-Go? I do wish we could get a definitive answer on this...
If all facelift W212s are Keyless-Go then that makes some sense. My question is how do non Keyless-Go cars work with their key fobs?
Prior MBs unlocked when the key fob was proactively pressed, leading me to believe that the key starts the sequence. Whether the car is always in listening (or asking) mode is the question.
It doesn't make sense to me that these cars would have separate wireless systems for Keyless-Go vs non Keyless-Go? I do wish we could get a definitive answer on this...
They are separate which is why a keyless go key costs a lot more than a regular key. Used to be like $200-$300 for a regular key and $500+ for a keyless go key. Probably why the battery lasts longer in a regular key without keyless go, only sends a signal when you press the button. I think someone claimed that a keyless go key for the newer cars were $750.
Not all facelifted cars have keyless go, it was still an option but like the P1 package, many cars had it.
The key has to be broadcasting at all times looking for a response from the car. Your examples of the bad guys stealing the code proves that out. They are intercepting the key signals and boosting them to the car. This would be the case for KeyGo and non KeyGo. The keys in each case are always broadcasting. IMHO the key starts the sequence.
They are separate which is why a keyless go key costs a lot more than a regular key. Not all facelifted cars have keyless go, it was still an option but like the P1 package, many cars had it.
OK, so if there are differences between the two types of keys that explain the difference in expense, and...
Originally Posted by KEY08
The key has to be broadcasting at all times looking for a response from the car. This would be the case for KeyGo and non KeyGo. The keys in each case are always broadcasting. IMHO the key starts the sequence.
So, assuming that the key broadcasts all the time, would there be a difference in the actual key fobs between Keyless-Go and Not?
Does anyone know if there are different part numbers for each type key fob (Regular vs Keyless-Go)?
I ask, because it's been posted elsewhere that some users install a CR2032 battery in their key fob. Try as I have, I cannot force a CR2032 battery into my Keyless-Go fob. It will accept CR2025 only. The diameter of the batteries is the same, but the CR2032 is thicker. Could there be added componentry in the Keyless-Go fob that takes more space, that prevents using the thicker CR2032 battery?
The key has to be broadcasting at all times looking for a response from the car. Your examples of the bad guys stealing the code proves that out. They are intercepting the key signals and boosting them to the car. This would be the case for KeyGo and non KeyGo. The keys in each case are always broadcasting. IMHO the key starts the sequence.
No, I think you're making assumptions. Usually you activate the car by putting your hand into the door handle and that wakes the car up to search for the key. The key may be listening all the time. So when they steal the car with the range extender, they just wake the car up by pulling the door handle and walk around til they find the signal from the house.
And yes, of course the fob between keyless go and regular are different. I think at one point you could swap cases with a non keyless go key but not a keyless go one.
As for the 2032, I'm not sure when they changed cases, not sure if your key fob is the same as the older pre face lift models. Mine had a 2032 stuffed inside my 2011. It barely fit, the cover would hardly close, but it did kinda fit.
Tonight I put those new two RFID protective pouches to the test. I placed key fob inside pouch and walked up to my Keyless Go door where car had been locked. As I tried to pull handle to open door, nothing happened. That was an indication it works like it's intended.
Tonight I put those new two RFID protective pouches to the test. I placed key fob inside pouch and walked up to my Keyless Go door where car had been locked. As I tried to pull handle to open door, nothing happened. That was an indication it works like it's intended.
That's good. Is there any room in the pouch for more than just the key fob? Most people have their Smart Key on a keychain.
My keychain has the SmartKey, and a ring with house key, MB emblem bauble and mini USB drive (pic in OP). A lot less than most people. Still, I wonder if all can fit in the pouch? I ask, because if the additional keys have to dangle outside the pouch, I suspect the metal ring will act as an antenna for the Smart Key (and unlock the door). Perhaps you can test that, please?
That pouch I got will not accommodate anything besides SmartKey. It's a very tight fit, you can't even get a credit card in there. Perhaps there are other outfits that are a bit larger than this particular one I got.
Tonight I put those new two RFID protective pouches to the test. I placed key fob inside pouch and walked up to my Keyless Go door where car had been locked. As I tried to pull handle to open door, nothing happened. That was an indication it works like it's intended.
Have you tested they key distance to car when no RFID pouch is used? At what distance will the key communicate with the car? When is it out of range? Will the key communicate with in range (whatever that is) after the key has not been moved for say an hour? There is anecdotal evidence that keyless go keys become inactive when at rest for a time period unknown and are activated by moving the key.
Have you tested they key distance to car when no RFID pouch is used? At what distance will the key communicate with the car? When is it out of range? Will the key communicate with in range (whatever that is) after the key has not been moved for say an hour? There is anecdotal evidence that keyless go keys become inactive when at rest for a time period unknown and are activated by moving the key.
Some of the answers are in reply #22.
I have not see a reply from a guy who could actually measure the signal, but all the hands-on experience tests show the key sending ping every few seconds all the time.
I sure would like to see something published by a reputable source that says the keyless go fob sends out a ping every few seconds all the time.If you run across one please post a link.
An update...
After dropping off several donations at my local CCA, I wandered into their resale shop next door. I found this small cocktail shaker. It's only slightly magnetic (some steel alloy), but it had all the requisite features: 1) overlapping cap and body and 2) good friction fitted parts.
Trying the 2 feet from the car experiment, the doors will not unlock with this one. So this is a possibility for those looking for ideas for inside home faraday cages.
Plus, if you want to mix up a Dry Manhattan, Up with an Olive...
I sure would like to see something published by a reputable source that says the keyless go fob sends out a ping every few seconds all the time.If you run across one please post a link.
MB doesn't like to publish such information, so often we have to relay on hands on experience.
Try to lock your car by touching inner handle and immediately open it by touching outside of handle.
Depends on the timing you will notice few seconds delay. That will give you idea about pinging intervals.
Great thread and thanks to you all for your testing! Our '13 is keyless go and fwiw, I tested the double click on the FOB's remote just now. Car has been sitting in the garage, unlocked, for 5 days; double click on each FOB lock button inside house and approx. 20' from car. Went to garage and found car was locked. Touched inside handle and car unlocked. Double click didn't work for my MY keyless go.
But I will look into a signal blocking pouch (or a newer car?!). Not all that worried about theft from home, was more interested in making FOB batteries last longer, which it sounds like isn't possible, no mater what I do with them... :-/
DFW, I have the 12 w/o and the 13 with, 12 takes a much thicker 2032, 13 takes skinny 2025, it has keyless go.
Also after all your experiments with faraday cages, I started thinking, always a problem. I remembered when I had two EZ Passes in the car and was getting charged on both as I went through toll booths, they sent me two small matallized plastic bags to put the EZ Pass in when not in use, when I put my key in the bag my 13 does nothing even with the key inches from the drivers door handle!
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