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DFW, I have the 12 w/o and the 13 with, 12 takes a much thicker 2032, 13 takes skinny 2025, it has keyless go.
Also after all your experiments with faraday cages, I started thinking, always a problem. I remembered when I had two EZ Passes in the car and was getting charged on both as I went through toll booths, they sent me two small matallized plastic bags to put the EZ Pass in when not in use, when I put my key in the bag my 13 does nothing even with the key inches from the drivers door handle!
If by "nothing" you mean the tolltag bag containing your keys inches from the door the lock still unlocks as normal, then I understand. I have several tolltag pouches too, and they fail to prevent my unlocking the door as well.
No by nothing I mean the EZ Pass bag works to block the signal to the car and it WON'T unlock, but you knew that's what I meant didn't you?
No, I wasn't sure, but thanks for the clarification. My comment was based on my observations that the Tolltag bags failed to shield the keys from the door for me and my assumption that they wouldn't work for you either.
My EZ pass is from New Jersey, Maybe they have better bags! LOL. Go figure. I worked in Denton for three years building a distillation plant for Ethyl Alcohol and stayed in Flower Mound, I loved that area.
My EZ pass is from New Jersey, Maybe they have better bags! LOL. Go figure. I worked in Denton for three years building a distillation plant for Ethyl Alcohol and stayed in Flower Mound, I loved that area.
LOL, I've resided in Flower Mound the last 22 years. I agree with your kind assessment.
MB doesn't like to publish such information, so often we have to relay on hands on experience.
Try to lock your car by touching inner handle and immediately open it by touching outside of handle.
Depends on the timing you will notice few seconds delay. That will give you idea about pinging intervals.
One Thing I believe that every one should understand is that the Keyless go key does NOT spend it's life attempting to 'talk' to the car, depleting the battery. If that were true, it would make no difference where the key was, on a shelf in your garage next to your car, in your living room, in your bedroom, in a Faraday cage or not in a cage. Here is some additional information on how the Keyless go system works - not very specific, not all details. And from my reading, not all Mercedes models in a specific year have exactly the same functionality from Keyless go.
Keyless Go (also: Keyless Entry / Go; Passive Entry / Go) is Mercedes' term for an automotive technology which allows a driver to lock and unlock a vehicle without using the corresponding SmartKey buttons. Once a driver enters a vehicle with an equipped Keyless Go SmartKey or Keyless Go wallet-size card, they have the ability to start and stop the engine, without inserting the SmartKey. A transponder built within the SmartKey allows the vehicle to identify a driver. An additional safety feature is integrated into the vehicle, making it impossible to lock a SmartKey with Keyless Go inside a vehicle.
Hardware blocks on the Keyless Entry/Go ECU
The system works by having a series of LF (low frequency 125 kHz) transmitting antennas both inside and outside the vehicle. The external antennas are located in the door handles. When the vehicle is triggered, either by pulling the handle or touching the handle, an LF signal is transmitted from the antennas to the key. The key becomes activated if it is sufficiently close and it transmits its ID back to the vehicle via RF (Radio frequency >300 MHz) to a receiver located in the vehicle. If the key has the correct ID, the PASE module unlocks the vehicle.
The hardware blocks of a Keyless Entry / Go Electronic control unit ECU are based on its functionality:
transmitting low-frequency LF signals via the 125 kHz power amplifier block
receiving radio frequency RF signals (> 300 MHz) from the built-in ISM receiver block
encrypting and decrypting all relevant data signals (security)
The smart key determines if it is inside or outside the vehicle by measuring the strength of the LF fields. In order to start the vehicle, the smart key must be inside the vehicle.
System reaction times
The mark of a good passive entry system is that the user never hits the "wall". This happens when the user pulls the door handle to its full extent before the door is unlocked. The handle has to be released and pulled again to gain access. Good systems have an override feature that allows the doors to be opened more quickly.
Security requirements
It is important that the vehicle can't be started when the user and therefore the smart key is outside the vehicle. This is especially important at fueling stations where the user is very close to the vehicle. The internal LF field is allowed to overshoot by a maximum of 10 cm to help minimise this risk. Maximum overshoot is usually found on the side windows where there is very little attenuation of the signal.
Relay Station AttackA second scenario exists under the name "relay station attack" (RSA). The RSA is based on the idea of reducing the long physical distance between the car and the regular car owner's SmartKey. Two relay stations will be needed for this: The first relay station is located nearby the car and the second is close to the SmartKey. So on first view, the Keyless Entry / Go ECU and the SmartKey could communicate together. A third person at the car could pull the door handle and the door would open. However, in every Keyless Entry / Go system provisions exist to avoid a successful two-way communication via RSA. Some of the most known are:
measuring group delay time to detect illegal high values
Furthermore, Keyless Entry / Go communicates with other Control Units within the same vehicle. Depending on the electric car architecture, the following are some Control Systems that can be enabled or disabled:
Another possibility is using a motion sensor within the key fob.
Internal LF field dead spots
Dead spots are a result of the maximum overshoot requirement from above. The power delivered to the internal LF antennas has to be tuned to provide the best performance i.e. minimum dead spots and maximum average overshoot. Dead spots are usually near the extremities of the vehicle e.g. the rear parcel shelf.
Battery Backup
If the battery in the smart key becomes depleted, it is necessary for there to be a backup method of opening and starting the vehicle. Opening is achieved by an emergency (fully mechanical) key blade usually hidden in the smart key. On many cars emergency starting is achieved by use of an inductive coupling. The user either has to put the key in a slot or hold it near a special area on the cockpit, where there is an inductive coil hidden behind which transfers energy to a matching coil in the dead key fob using inductive charging.
Slots have proven to be problematic, as they can go wrong and the key becomes locked in and cannot be removed. Another problem with the slot is it can't compensate for a fob battery below certain operating threshold. Most smart key batteries are temperature sensitive causing the fob to become intermittent, fully functional, or inoperative all in the same day.
Special Cases
A Keyless Entry / Go system should be able to detect and handle most of the following cases:
SmartKey Transponder was forgotten in the rear trunk
The first Keyless Entry / Go ECU of the MB S-Class car series 1998/99
The system is based on a technology invented by Siemens VDO called PASE: Passive Start and Entry System. It operates in the ISM band of radio frequencies. Keyless Entry / Go was introduced first by Mercedes-Benz in the S-Class car series in 1998.
Outlook
Today a Keyless Entry / Go system is a state-of-the art technology and still has a lot of potential to optimise. Here are some general trends of the advance (AD) and series development (SD):
SD: reduction of used LF antennas in low-cost compact cars (results in a loss of detection quality)
AD: using electric field antennas instead of magnetic field antennas (cost reduction)
AD: using microwave frequencies (radar) instead of an LF and RF combination (more comfort)
A test by ADAC revealed that 20 car models with Keyless Go could be entered and driven away without the key. In 2014, 6,000 cars (about 17 per day) were stolen using keyless entry in London.
Keyless cars provide huge convenience for owners and drivers alike, however, they also make stealing cars considerably easier as well.
In a matter of seconds, criminals can take keyless cars by using a device to relay to signal from key fob in the house to the car, allowing them to open the car, start it, and drive off.
Car thefts in England and Wales are currently at an eight-year high – last year alone, 106,000 cars were taken.
Now What Car? magazine has tested seven new cars all equipped with keyless tech to see which are the most vulnerable to theft.
Mercedes-Benz A-Class
Get into car
Drive Away
Keyless-Go key fob inactive
Not possible
Not possible
Keyless-Go key fob active
30 seconds
20 seconds
As well as Audi, BMW, Ford, and Mercedes-Benz have all introduced motion detection technology for their keys, which disables them if they remain untouched and not moving around. When the keys were deactivated, the cars couldn't be taken in the What Car? test.
Find out what Keyless car theft is & how to prevent your keyless entry car being stolen. Learn if your car is keyless entry & what car models are at risk as keyless car theft (relay theft) is a crime on the rise. As the UK’s largest trade association for locksmiths, many of our members are auto locksmiths so have knowledge with car keys and locks.
Keyless Entry Cars Tested Against Keyless Car Theft by Thatcham
In 2019 Thatcham launched a security rating for keyless entry car models and how they performed against relay theft, below are the results.
PASSED Vehicle Models of Keyless Car Theft Test
The following keyless entry car models PASSED Thatchams relay attack test and were given a superior security rating:
Mercedes B-Class Passed Superior Security Rating
Ford Focus, Fiesta, BMW, Audi & Mercedes have introduced Motion Sensor Key Fobs. A Motion sensor car fob will go into sleep mode after being inactive for 40 seconds, which prevents any criminals from getting the cars signal.
The heck with battery life... I'd like my car still to be parked where I left it when I come out from a restaurant! So, how far away can one of these boosters be from me with my FOB in my pocket, and they steal my car?! The one graphic says a hundred yards... Yikes!! In the market for pocket/purse size faraday containers THAT WORK...
The heck with battery life... I'd like my car still to be parked where I left it when I come out from a restaurant! So, how far away can one of these boosters be from me with my FOB in my pocket, and they steal my car?! The one graphic says a hundred yards... Yikes!! In the market for pocket/purse size faraday containers THAT WORK...
Just my opinion, but I think the problem with pocket/purse size faraday containers is that they don't take account of how drivers keep their keys. I'm not aware of anyone who carries only the keyfob and nothing else. Instead, people include the Smart Key Fob as part of a larger key chain in a variety of sizes and number of components... House keys plus who knows what else.
In these infinite size keychain scenarios, the Ticonn pocket case I noted above (post #47) will accomodate only a minimal setup that would permit the case to be closed. The larger and bulkier the keychain, the less likely you can close the flap to attempt a "Seal." Beyond that, the main issue of reliable signal blocking is very problematic.
The alternative that really works is the ability to turn off the Smart Key itself. I think this capability is only available with some MYs of facelift cars (2014+) with the Keyless Go option. My 2016 keys can be turned off, and I think several folks here have tested their keys for the same function, with limited success.
The system works by having a series of LF (low frequency 125 kHz) transmitting antennas both inside and outside the vehicle. The external antennas are located in the door handles. When the vehicle is triggered, either by pulling the handle or touching the handle, an LF signal is transmitted from the antennas to the key. The key becomes activated if it is sufficiently close and it transmits its ID back to the vehicle via RF (Radio frequency >300 MHz) to a receiver located in the vehicle. If the key has the correct ID, the PASE module unlocks the vehicle......
Nice find, although wikipedia is not big authority.
I am still skeptic.
My car will activate trunk lock without me touching it.
So the above gives no clue how it works.
Just my opinion, but I think the problem with pocket/purse size faraday containers is that they don't take account of how drivers keep their keys. I'm not aware of anyone who carries only the keyfob and nothing else. Instead, people include the Smart Key Fob as part of a larger key chain in a variety of sizes and number of components... House keys plus who knows what else.
In these infinite size keychain scenarios, the Ticonn pocket case I noted above (post #47) will accomodate only a minimal setup that would permit the case to be closed. The larger and bulkier the keychain, the less likely you can close the flap to attempt a "Seal." Beyond that, the main issue of reliable signal blocking is very problematic.
The alternative that really works is the ability to turn off the Smart Key itself. I think this capability is only available with some MYs of facelift cars (2014+) with the Keyless Go option. My 2016 keys can be turned off, and I think several folks here have tested their keys for the same function, with limited success.
Well now you "know" someone who does! We keep the Benz FOBs without anything else on them. We have a bunch of cars, so usually a trip or nice outing, etc. is when we take the Benz out... I'm going to order and test some compact cases and will post back here what I find that works (if I do find one). My criteria though is small enough to fit in my pants pocket - wife could take a larger case in her purse. Based on your test of the one style Ticonn, I've ordered one of their other styles and smaller. If they don't work, back to Amazon they go and I'll pick some others to try.
Plan to use the case to keep the FOBs in all the time (in the house, etc.), so solves both issues (hopefully). Thanks for bringing this to our attention!
FYI, I have 2 Faraday bags and only keep an MB key fob in each one (i.e. no additional keys to fill it up). Alternatively, you can order a Faraday bag sized for a smartphone and use it to carry Keyless Go fob + house keys:
I use the latter for my smartphone when traveling abroad.
- Longroof
Thanks, I have looked at it and some of the interesting reviews it has on Amazon (that say it only works for awhile). I'll keep it on my list, but it would be one for the Wife to use as it is a bit large for my pants pocket I think - looking at ones in the 2.5" x 4" range and over 4 star rating. From reading those reviews on the Signal Tactics unit (which looks well made), maybe ALL of these should be routinely checked that they are functioning....?
Would be nice if in Future MB put and ON/OFF switch on FOB.
Then it works when you want it to.
Only switch now is to remove battery
The fobs on my 2016 van be turned off/on by he user.
I believe the rectangular fobs on the newer models (all are dedicated Keyless Start, some are Keyless GO) have the same off/on feature, or they that they automatically turn off on a timed basis.
For portable carry away from home, I'm thinking an old-school Sucrets box or Mentos box (metal) or any small metal box for mints, might work, if the lid laps over the bottom.
(Image from eBay listing)
I have an older Sucrets box around here, somewhere. Holding small screws in a drawer in the garage, I think. Time to look around... edit: Sucrets box not found.
I have already tried a metal airgun pellet box, and it doesn't work.
Okay, I found an old Sucrets box. Great pocket size for fob only fit. Made from steel and the lid does overlap the body on closing.
Unfortunately, without modification, the key within will unlock the door, so it's a fail. I then removed the fob, wrapped it in a paper napkin to isolate it from touching the inside metal, and it still failed to isolate the key. Maybe some felt?
Update: These two Ticonn units work perfectly (you get 2 for the one price). I removed each FOB's key ring to get a slimmer fit. I tested both at the same time and each one separately in different orientations (all sides facing and within inches of the door handle with flap closed) and car did not respond. In the reviews for these I saw where people reported they could just "open the flap" of the case and the car would get enough signal to work. So I tested this on both: flap open and any orientation inches away from handle and car did not respond. However if I slipped a finger into the inside of the flap where key FOB was, car got the signal. One of my FOBs has a week old battery in it, the other is months old and both will manually (pressing FOB buttons) communicate with the car over 50' away (at least), I believe battery strength to be normal on my FOBs.
Here's what I bought, and again a Thanks to DFWdude for bringing this to light and the multiple trial and error tests done by him, and others here...
Update: These two Ticonn units work perfectly (you get 2 for the one price). I removed each FOB's key ring to get a slimmer fit. I tested both at the same time and each one separately in different orientations (all sides facing and within inches of the door handle with flap closed) and car did not respond. In the reviews for these I saw where people reported they could just "open the flap" of the case and the car would get enough signal to work. So I tested this on both: flap open and any orientation inches away from handle and car did not respond. However if I slipped a finger into the inside of the flap where key FOB was, car got the signal. One of my FOBs has a week old battery in it, the other is months old and both will manually (pressing FOB buttons) communicate with the car over 50' away (at least), I believe battery strength to be normal on my FOBs.
Here's what I bought, and again a Thanks to DFWdude for bringing this to light and the multiple trial and error tests done by him, and others here...
How stiff are those bags?
When I am not paranoid about thieves with repeaters stealing my car at McDonald, I often notice that when I bend my knees working around the car, the buttons get pressed in my pocket. Had incident when I was checking something around the car with passengers in it.
Accidental button pushing locked the car and when passenger open the door- the alarm went off.
The fobs on my 2016 van be turned off/on by he user.
I believe the rectangular fobs on the newer models (all are dedicated Keyless Start, some are Keyless GO) have the same off/on feature, or they that they automatically turn off on a timed basis.
On the newer models, the key shuts off after 5 minutes when it doesn't detect any movement like when it's just sitting on a counter at home.
The way the repeaters work, it doesn't matter if the key is off until the car wakes it up, the repeater just sends the car's signal to the key to wake it up so that it sends a code and the signal gets repeated near the car. When the key fob just shuts off, a signal from the car doesn't wake it up.
How stiff are those bags?
When I am not paranoid about thieves with repeaters stealing my car at McDonald, I often notice that when I bend my knees working around the car, the buttons get pressed in my pocket. Had incident when I was checking something around the car with passengers in it.
Accidental button pushing locked the car and when passenger open the door- the alarm went off.
They are flexible, so that is a valid possibility - however if you insert the FOB with the button side facing the flap, it should minimize this. Maybe flap towards leg/body so if you bump it, even less likely for false button press? Might want to try them and see if you can force a false or accidental button push in your normal work mode. I have this problem with my phone, so I end up taking it out and setting it nearby to get calls, but not make any "pocket calls"...
On the newer models, the key shuts off after 5 minutes when it doesn't detect any movement like when it's just sitting on a counter at home...
Doesn't take much imagination to picture DW having the key in purse on passenger seat and pulling over for taking phone call.
10 (or 30) minutes later you are getting emergency call that the car doesn't start.
Than 5 minutes is more time than thieves need to pull your car from front of McD.
Originally Posted by diesel_dan
They are flexible, so that is a valid possibility - however if you insert the FOB with the button side facing the flap, it should minimize this. Maybe flap towards leg/body so if you bump it, even less likely for false button press? Might want to try them and see if you can force a false or accidental button push in your normal work mode. I have this problem with my phone, so I end up taking it out and setting it nearby to get calls, but not make any "pocket calls"...
Thanks for additional review.
I am getting such calls from our friend. He is guy who runs a bussines of designing computer boards and always denying the fact of his phone is making pocket calls.
I use my android for hiking distance tracking and in the past was always waiting for the screen to go black before I put it back in the pocket. Took me 3 years to find out that pushing power button makes the screen goes black on instant.
Than 1 time my android program itself with password for opening. Since I had no idea what password it was, I had to reboot android, wiping all the data from it.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
