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2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
curiousity leads to a chain of fools
so i was curious about what sort of tire chains I could use with our new 4matic wagon, owners manual is singularlly useless...
Further information can be found in the Digital Operator's Manual.
So I go out to eh driveway, sit in teh car in the dark, boot up the COMAND, dial through the onboard owners manual... blah blah blah blah for many pages, and it finally says "For chain fitment, contact your dealer service department'.
so i was curious about what sort of tire chains I could use with our new 4matic wagon, owners manual is singularlly useless...
Further information can be found in the Digital Operator's Manual.
So I go out to eh driveway, sit in teh car in the dark, boot up the COMAND, dial through the onboard owners manual... blah blah blah blah for many pages, and it finally says "For chain fitment, contact your dealer service department'.
What are the odds the dealer says "RTFM" ?
It's possible. Here's your answer, "The manual says 'for chain fitment, contact your dealer service department.' You're not the only MB dealer on the planet. Do you want my business, or not?"
Here in the Dallas area, I have 5-6 dealers within 25 miles. Sadly, I've had to use the phrase, "Do you want my business, or not" a couple times. And if the dealer cooperates, I milk it for all the info -- and time -- they will provide, then I leave and go elsewhere, just on principle. I call the dealer the farthest away for starters.
You haven't asked, but regarding tire chains in general, I wouldn't. At 37°N latitude, 122°W longitude, you will get little snow, unless you snow ski above a San Jose, CA snowline.
Given the tall tires and tight wheel wells on the W212, my guess is that any dealer will advise against any chains, as well. I also guess that is why it's not discussed in detail in the manuals.
Several on these forums have a Winter set of specialized Winter Tires/Wheels that they drive on during the likely snow months. Others park their MBs in the garage, and drive their "Beater" cars instead, as I do. I have 3 beater options. Your 2002 F250 4x4 sounds perfect for tearing about in the snow.
You haven't asked, but regarding tire chains in general, I wouldn't. At 37°N latitude, 122°W longitude, you will get little snow, unless you snow ski above a San Jose, CA snowline.
Given the tall tires and tight wheel wells on the W212, my guess is that any dealer will advise against any chains, as well. I also guess that is why it's not discussed in detail in the manuals.
Several on these forums have a Winter set of specialized Winter Tires/Wheels that they drive on during the likely snow months. Others park their MBs in the garage, and drive their "Beater" cars instead, as I do. I have 3 beater options. Your 2002 F250 4x4 sounds perfect for tearing about in the snow.
Assuming that the OP would like to make a nice weekend ski trip up to Tahoe with his family. He would likely either require dedicated snow tires or chains. Assuming that limited amount of use, chains would be far more convenient.
OP - FWIW
You probably have already read this but anyway
Looking in the 2016 E class manual it states on P 291 the following
Snow chains
WARNING
If snow chains are installed to the front
wheels, they may drag against the vehicle
body or chassis components. This could
cause damage to the vehicle or the tires.
There is a risk of an accident.
To avoid hazardous situations:
- never install snow chains to the front
wheels
- always install snow chains in pairs to the
rear wheels.
Further information can be found in the Digital
Operator's Manual.
On your car, chains or studded tires will only be needed for ICE... In CA where we both live, you'll get there and back (Tahoe/Reno) without issue...
That said... If you want something for that rare event (ice) you need to get through, check out cable "chains" - they work and they are very low profile, unless you go stupid on the speed, they and your 4Matic, will get you even through that... Put them on all 4, otherwise stay where you are until conditions improve...
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
heh, leaned kinda hard on that 'solarize' crank, eh?
FWIW, all the pictures I've posted have been straight from my phone (Google Pixel 3A), default settings, completely unmolested... except if I posted the circa 2014 picture of the w124 wagon in the greeeeen forest, that was shot with my DSLR.
so i was curious about what sort of tire chains I could use with our new 4matic wagon, owners manual is singularlly useless...
Further information can be found in the Digital Operator's Manual.
So I go out to eh driveway, sit in teh car in the dark, boot up the COMAND, dial through the onboard owners manual... blah blah blah blah for many pages, and it finally says "For chain fitment, contact your dealer service department'.
What are the odds the dealer says "RTFM" ?
Konig easy fit by Thule, work great, my buddy in Truckee loves them, Also my friend in Manteca uses them on his VW. I also believe 4wd's are exempt from chains going through Donner.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; Jan 10, 2021 at 02:33 PM.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
Originally Posted by pierrejoliat
Konig easy fit by Thule, work great, my buddy in Truckee loves them, Also my friend in Manteca uses them on his VW. I also believe 4wd's are exempt from chains going through Donner.
rather, its conditions R1 and R2 that exempt AWD with M+S rated tires. Calfiornia Road Controls are...
R1: Chains are required – snow tread tires allowed.
R2: Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels.
R3: Chains are required – all vehicles – no exceptions (almost always, highways are closed before you get R3)
and 'snow tires' implies M+S rated, although 3PMSF (3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake) are highly advisable (and I do note the All Season "MO" Contis on my 4Matic are M+S but not 3PMSF).
3PMSF refers to this icon on the tire sidewall...
huh. for my 17" Luxury 4Matic, there's *ONE* tire in the 'grand touring all season' category at Tirerack.com which is 3PMSF rated, a Vredestein Quatrac Pro 245/45R17 XL
rather, its conditions R1 and R2 that exempt AWD with M+S rated tires. Calfiornia Road Controls are...
R1: Chains are required – snow tread tires allowed.
R2: Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels.
R3: Chains are required – all vehicles – no exceptions (almost always, highways are closed before you get R3)
and 'snow tires' implies M+S rated, although 3PMSF (3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake) are highly advisable (and I do note the All Season "MO" Contis on my 4Matic are M+S but not 3PMSF).
3PMSF refers to this icon on the tire sidewall...
huh. for my 17" Luxury 4Matic, there's *ONE* tire in the 'grand touring all season' category at Tirerack.com which is 3PMSF rated, a Vredestein Quatrac Pro 245/45R17 XL
ditto for the 18" size on 'sports' E350's...
Yes, always count on California for regulations, my Conti DWS06 has that snowflake and works out ok in the summers too.
And it's just remarkable that the rest of the country gets through snowstorms all the time without a CALDOT inspection before proceeding.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; Jan 10, 2021 at 03:57 PM.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
there aren't THAT many places in the country that get as much snow on a major interstate overnight as I80 over Donner Pass can get. Donner is like 7000 feet, and surrounded by 10000 foot mountains, and gets an average of 35 feet of snow/year, and some years as much as 70 feet that and very high traffic volumes of people who live where it never snows. its also heavy dense snow, and this is only about 60 miles up I80 from where it rarely snows.
and huh, tirerack does list the Continental DWS06 in my size, but does NOT say it is 3PMSF rated. Literally the ONLY all season they list with 3PMSF is that Vredestein.
Last edited by Left Coast Geek; Jan 10, 2021 at 04:22 PM.
there aren't THAT many places in the country that get as much snow on a major interstate overnight as I80 over Donner Pass can get. Donner is like 7000 feet, and surrounded by 10000 foot mountains, and gets an average of 35 feet of snow/year, and some years as much as 70 feet that and very high traffic volumes of people who live where it never snows. its also heavy dense snow, and this is only about 60 miles up I80 from where it rarely snows.
and huh, tirerack does list the Continental DWS06 in my size, but does NOT say it is 3PMSF rated. Literally the ONLY all season they list with 3PMSF is that Vredestein.
Continental makes 4 tires that are 3PMSF so do many others, in your size. The DWS06 is 3PMSF.
Yes, I spent an hour or so one day watching you guys drive up this very pass, LMAO.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
Originally Posted by pierrejoliat
Continental makes 4 tires that are 3PMSF so do many others, in your size. The DWS06 is 3PMSF.
Yes, I spent an hour or so one day watching you guys drive up this very pass, LMAO.
at 6:30, that triangle is the ⚠️ caution symbol on the usual warnings...
Hmm, mine don't say" Sport Plus" either, and the reference to the caution symbol was uncalled for, I will send pictures of my DWS with the mountain and snowflake tomorrow... Maybe.
there aren't THAT many places in the country that get as much snow on a major interstate overnight as I80 over Donner Pass can get. Donner is like 7000 feet, and surrounded by 10000 foot mountains, and gets an average of 35 feet of snow/year, and some years as much as 70 feet that and very high traffic volumes of people who live where it never snows. its also heavy dense snow, and this is only about 60 miles up I80 from where it rarely snows.
and huh, tirerack does list the Continental DWS06 in my size, but does NOT say it is 3PMSF rated. Literally the ONLY all season they list with 3PMSF is that Vredestein.
I'm not understanding your issue - do you ski? A lot? If so you know that once CalTrans has determined the snow rate is more than they can plow, and lead groups of cars single file (With chains on the drive axle or 4wd with at least M&S) over the pass. They shut it down. I've never seen them use R2 or R3. And there used to be a level 4, which was 4x4 with chains on all 4... And they never used that either...
So you can get over the summit in your 4Matic with M&S Conti's, or the road is closed. But I didn't think you were asking that Q... My impression was the driveways or other roads that had actual ice on them. Studded tires, or chains are the only reliable way to safely get through that...
I hope I have helped some...
Leave the snowflake tires to someone that lives in a place where it snows all-the-time in winter
on edit: and they salt the roads to keep the ice down...
Last edited by diesel_dan; Jan 10, 2021 at 08:11 PM.
2016 E350 4Matic wagon, 2019 Ford Expedition, 2019 Chevy Bolt EV
well, I've been on snowy roads in remote places with 3PMSF tires (on a Tacoma 4x4 w/ BF G KO2's) and they were nearly as good as dedicated snows. AND I put like 25000 miles on those tires on pavement dry and wet, and they were excellent all around tires. older KO2's that weren't 3PMSF were just as good on dry and wet and dirt, but not as good on snow, in the same vehicle.
but yeah, its mostly curiosity on my part. was just kind of surprised almost none of the all season M+S rated tires for the E350 had the 3PMSF rating too.
re: pictures of your tire, you might try and find the tire model number, its like 15499710000 or something (thats a 245/45r17 99Y DWS06 current version). tires change without changing their branding, it can get downright confusing.
I think, where we think alike... is in Geek-dom... We over think things, often... Go see your son, any, time of the year... Your 4Matic will keep you on the road...
The Extreme Conti Contacs .... Rock IMHO, in most all conditions...
well, I've been on snowy roads in remote places with 3PMSF tires (on a Tacoma 4x4 w/ BF G KO2's) and they were nearly as good as dedicated snows. AND I put like 25000 miles on those tires on pavement dry and wet, and they were excellent all around tires. older KO2's that weren't 3PMSF were just as good on dry and wet and dirt, but not as good on snow, in the same vehicle.
but yeah, its mostly curiosity on my part. was just kind of surprised almost none of the all season M+S rated tires for the E350 had the 3PMSF rating too.
re: pictures of your tire, you might try and find the tire model number, its like 15499710000 or something (thats a 245/45r17 99Y DWS06 current version). tires change without changing their branding, it can get downright confusing.
So you were partly correct, apparently Continental dropped the snowflake with the DWS06 and it is just M&S rated. My mistake, I assumed as I bought the new DWS06 it was rated the same as the old DWS.
I used the autotrac tire chains for my rwd on rear wheels only. Done multiple trips to Reno/Tahoe already. Caused some scuffing to my wheels.. oh well, it wasn’t perfect to begin with having curb rash anyway.
You have a 4Matic, you don’t have to worry about it. For Reno/Tahoe, they never ever require AWD with snow chains.. when it gets that bad, they close the highway. Ask me how I know.. I drove my w212 one year thru white out conditions and they closed the freeway behind me. I was literally the only one on the road..going 5mph for about 8 hours.. couldn’t see more than 15 feet in front of me.
...Looking in the 2016 E class manual it states on P 291 the following Snow chains
WARNING
If snow chains are installed to the front
wheels, they may drag against the vehicle
body or chassis components. This could
cause damage to the vehicle or the tires.
There is a risk of an accident.
To avoid hazardous situations:
- never install snow chains to the front
wheels
- always install snow chains in pairs to the
rear wheels.
I concur with this statement.
I have verified this to be true with the Thule chains (Konig). They will not fit on the front wheels without interference.
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