votnus24

Hi, so one of my relatives is actively in a search for a sedan. More precisely, an executive sedan. It's either the w212, the a6 c7, or the F10 5 series. Since most of the people in this community have the w212 some of you have been test driving the other ones trying to chose your car. I want to hear your opinion on these vehicles, the strengths and weaknesses, reliability and stuff. He is interested in the v6 diesels since they offer a good balance of power, consumption and endurance.

BenzV12

I can't speak for the Audi A6 but W212 was better car to me than G30 and G30 is regarded evaluation over F10 Series . W212 had a better ride to me , nicer interior and exterior as well . I have not owned BMW long enough to tell you about its reliability but W212 was very reliable ,only panoramic roof problems and terrible seats .(Artico or MB/TEX ,front seats only were uncomfortable )

kajtek1

I am not current with latest models, but 10 years ago I bought Audi A4 Avant for my son. That thing burn more fuel than my MB wagon 4Matic and had annoying programs about taking coffee breaks.
I was actually happy when my son got the car totaled in front of his HS and I bought him MB diesel.
Son wasn't happy.

bzcat

It's hard to make a recommendation without knowing what your relative values in a sedan and the price range. If he just want a comfy cruiser, all three will do the job just fine.

But if your relative want a sporty dynamic car, the C7 Audi is the best choice follow by W212. F10 BMW is one of the worst BMW in recent memory in terms of dynamics... it drives more like a Lexus.

But if diesel is a top priority, I will take a later model year C7 A6 3.0 TDI or F10 535d over a W212 E250 Bluetec anyday.

Reliability wise they are all about the same... middling German reliability, meaning if properly maintained, they tend to be relatively trouble free. But skip on preventive maintenance, you will have a nightmare later.

votnus24

Update: Got the c7 facelifted with 3.0 quattro. Drives like a dream, comfortable, turns heads, good performance, good efficiency, low mileage and gives confidence. I recommend it over the w212

Senecat

Ok have fun.

BenzV12

Congrats,
Happy Driving

RosSauce

Congrats! I had the Audi B8 S4 with the same engine and it hurt the wallet for repairs once it reached higher miles (over 100K). If you can DIY things, it's a no brainer to get but make sure to check the following:
-Valve cover gaskets, HPFP, LPFP, oil filter housing leaks, timing chain rattle on cold start (1-2ish seconds is normal), catalytic converters (they can blow out), front control arms, engine mounts, thermostat, water pump, PCV, crank pulley. Also make sure to get carbon cleaning done every 20-30K miles or so. Unfortunately, most of these parts will fail at some point so just have some funds set aside for it in the future. Surprisingly I had zero issues with the electronics on my my S4 (except one instance of the speakers blaring white noise). If any one of the thermostat, PCV, or water pump go bad, I'd recommend replacing all at the same time since they require removing the supercharger.

Enjoy the car, it's a beauty!

Left Coast Geek

Check out what is involved to put an Audi in 'service position'.... the whole front end has to come off the car, bumpers, radiator, etc.

Zavato

Over the years I've had an A6, an E350, and a 5 series. Best handler- 5 series; most isolated- A6; most reliable- E350; best gas milage- E350; best all-around (for me)- E350

votnus24

Well, i've driven the w212 e220 cdi and it is very comfortable and the interior is high quality, but in my area a lot of people had problems with them - recently a relative had to replace the whole engine (which new is 15 000 euros). They are also very common so uniqueness is not high. The design is also not inspiring unless you get an AMG package of exterior and interior with panorama roof, cool wheels and double square exhausts. I have a c207 e coupe with the same design with AMG package and it looks amazing. It is the e350 cdi and compared to the audi the engine is a bit torque-ier, sounds more tractor-esqe and the 7g tronic is really not a good experience compared to the dsg. The audi's interior is very well designed and the quality of almost perfect with no rattling panels but at my surprise, the top of the doors, where almost everybody puts soft touch materials, the audi has hard scratchy plastics.... Not that it matters that much but i expected more.
Haven't driven the f10 and it was last choice since i don't like the front and they have a bad reputation for mechanical failures, but i've sat in one and it was a bit cramped although it gives a sporty vibe - not something one looks for when choosing in this segment

kajtek1

I just concluded with my wife.
When European OM651 engines do have different emission stuff on them, we drive our 2014 E250 Bluetec for 5 th year doing nothing to it.
We don't put many annual miles, but car exceeded 140k miles and this is 2nd of the same model we have.

nc211

I don’t think there is much of a comparison between the 3, as each has its own pros and cons. I asked a similar question 5 years ago myself, and looked at all three cars too. I have no regrets with picking the Merc, and to this day love looking at and driving it. I appreciate what it is, but also what it is not. It doesn’t try and be something that it’s not - a light-footed super zippy sports car. There isn’t one thing that really stands out with it, but when combined with all of its attributes (and flaws), it has an undeniable identity for exactly what it is - a Mercedes’ that could care less about trying to compete with the others. It’s almost as if the engineers intentionally tried to make it feel “old” when compared to the other two in certain aspects…..except it’s beauty! Yeah, it’ll get up and go, but won’t sound as badass as the Audi. It has the worst transmission of the bunch for sportiness (there is no comparison to the DSG in my opinion, it’s phenomenal). It’s seats aren’t overly stuffed and huggy like the BMW, and the interior is lackluster with the buttons and fancy layout like the other two.

but what it is - if taken care of, is like that favorite sweatshirt you put on on that first day of fall. It’s like wearing a refined leather-band expensive watch when looking at the dash. It’s like a trip to “chill-town” when going on a long cruise, not worried about being faster than the other guy, just enjoying the drive. And in my own opinion, it’s like a piece automotive jewelry to look at as it ages with its ageless design. It truly is a beautiful car!

it’s a lumbering Mercedes sedan - and that is exactly why I love it! It’s about as close to a throw-back era of Benz as I think you can get, and I think truly destined for the classics. I think it was intentionally designed to be that way too. Heavy, lumbering at times, but tracks down the road likes a laser beam, and glides around the corners effortlessly and shockingly accurately. That’s probably one of the things most impressive about it! Driving straight down the road, you’d think a floaty boat at times, but take the exit ramp and it just stays flat and right on track. I drove mine through West Virginia back country recently and absolutely LOVED it!

mine is 8 years old now, and it looks more modern and appealing than the new ones, if you ask my opinion. They just age so so well. I won’t speak about maintenance or repair expectations because none of these should be considered a Lexus in that category, and mine has had a few expenses along the way for sure, but I can tell you that I’m happier about spending a few thousands on this car than I am about any of the others. When I see a 2014 Audi or BMW, I see the age on it. When I see a pre-facelift W212, or a post-facelift W212, I see a car that would still look great in a MB new car showroom.

I can’t speak for the BMW, but on the Audi with its turbo, you should expect a decarbonization of the valves around 65k miles. I’ve had 3 GTI’s ranging from a Mk5, 6, and 7. Carbon happens with those engines due to the turbo matched with direct injection. The merc (face lifted) are direct injection as well, but no turbo jamming exhaust air back through the intakes.

pierrejoliat

IMHO, the Audi rides like a truck and has terrible seats and zero panache' The BMW is nicer, but still doesn't ride as well as the Benz, As some of you are aware, I've been looking fro a replacement for my '13 sport, we have looked and driven all three models in the last tree years, I have the wherewithal to buy whatever and I'm still driving the 212, the new 4 turbo in the 213 is not good in my opinion, engine is loud and also doesn't ride well, so at this point it's either back to the S class or wait for the 214. the Lexus is not up to competing with this group, rides like my dad's Buick and is a Camry, just why? Luxury E's are few and far between, sports everywhere, yuck, I will probably need to order a luxury from Stuttgart.

nc211

I’ll also add, while prone to maintenance and issues at times - the 4Matic on the 212 is easily my favorite setup. The fixed ratio of 60/40 with rear bias - communicates what the car is doing perfectly in all weather situations. The safest car is the one that tells the truth to the driver, and this car does that far better than any other AWD setup I’ve driven. In the snow, I have 100% controlled fun. I know exactly when it’ll fishtail if I want it to, and how it’ll go through the snow. In the pouring down rain on a highway cruise, I’d want no other than my 212. It’s a straight-forward, uncomplicated design, and it works exceptionally well.

I don’t like AWD systems that are variable, with their torque vectoring and moving the power delivery front/rear, left/right, all the time. I don’t know what’s it doing, what is safe and what is not, and when it won’t be. That’s something I hate! I know they’re safe, but what I don’t know is when won’t it be safe. In the 212, I know that immediately and all the time. Sometimes less is more!

pierrejoliat

Completely agree with that assesment! As someone who lives in the snow belt with a 100 plus inches a year, I'm in the snow and ice a lot.

Left Coast Geek

We test drove a bunch of late model (mid 20-teens) Lexii before buying the Benz. our favorites were the older LS models, but the ones that had the ride and 'feel' we were looking for were just too old (late 90s). The Lexus GS was a nice sporty coupe, especially in the F-sport trim, and I would have happily driven one 20 years ago... The ES *is* a Camry, FWD and zero road feel. The IS is aimed at the BMW 3-series, and too sporty, harsh.

pierrejoliat

Lexii a lot of the older LS's had air suspensions, I agree, as a younger man the GS F Sport would have been very nice! The IS Is rough, in any trim, seats are like park benches and rides like my Scirocco, quoting my wife. LOL [ I loved that car ]

Left Coast Geek

when I was in my 30s, I bought a Jetta GLI 16V (gen A2), and drove the **** out of that thing for 250,000 miles of mountain roads and extreme speeding. I was skinny then, so those Recaro bucket seats held me like a glove... now I'd have numb thighs and ribs, Mercedes E seats are so much more comfortable.

Arrie

nc211,

Referring to your post #13, do you write books? If you don’t, maybe you should…

Your post is like poetry…

Arrie

I have no experience of the late BMWs or Audis but have plenty of some 10 years ago or so when I made plenty trips to Europe and drove them as rental cars. Both Audi and BMW drive very nice on German Autobahn going very fast. But so does Mercedes.

What really sold me on MB was the rental cars when I got to test these cars for a week at the time and the end conclusion was clearly in MBs favor.

But, before I bought my first 2011 E350 I bought an Audi Q7 as going from a Tahoe to a car seemed too big of a step. This Audi was kind of nice but with way too stiff suspension for my back. Awful setup as it obviously was made to handle well at the German race track but total fiasco for the bad roads I locally drive.

Then that thing, the sound or should I say noise of closing the door. This Q7 sounded like cheap Japanese cars or even like some not so high quality American or European cars. This cheap metallic “drum rattle”. When I closed the door of my first E-class it just brought it in. The door makes just the “thumb” sound like the door is supposed to make. It tells about the build quality a lot.

I drove lots of rental cars in Europe, mostly in Germany, and for being the top tier customer for the central company I got good upgrades. These were mostly Mercedes’ S-class and that really sold me for MB as the car I would buy. I had E-class wagon also, which I found well built too but really liked the S.

So, now I have them both and in my opinion both from the model years representing the best looking ones. 2010 E550 cannot be beat with any later model for looks, some for the 2013 S550.

MB has made serious mistakes with the car design and the new ones look just awful. All sedans looks much the same and from a distance you cannot tell them apart. I was at service at my dealer and looked at the rear of a new S-class. It’s tail lights are like a copy of 1980”s Honda Accord. Made me laugh but the sales guy did not like my comment at all…

ryguy84

old ls’s is where it’s at

nc211

Here is an old LS -1995. Photos from 2007 before I sold it with 133k miles. I bought it in 2003 and learned how to wrench with it. My buddy told me that I was the only person he’d ever seen to buy a Lexus and put it on blocks! By the time I was done, every suspension component was new (those damn soft rubber bushings), mounts, couplings, brakes, sparkling clean fluids, right down to the tiny screen in the power steering solenoid. The guy who bought it ended up being the Sr. Tech at the Lexus dealership that I bought from 4 years prior. It was a rolling beast, and was replaced when I brought my wife home a new Mazda 3 sedan and had so much fun with that little car (she hated the Lexus) that I ended up buying her a V8 4-Runnner and I took the Mazda. That Mazda turned into another Lexus (GS430) when we moved to Chicago in 2009 and I needed HP to not get murdered when trying to merge onto a freeway! Again, rubber bushings going bad, and I decided no more Lexus and replaced it with a GTI.

AR_motorwerkz

Nice LS! I guess if we are going to base it in this era, You have the MB W140, BMW E38 and the Audi A8/S8. For executives to be chauffeured around the MB W140 shines but if to be driven around like 007 the E38 is the best choice!