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Here is how civilized the Valeo 200A alternator own charging circuit is on its own.
If ECM charging algo is a Whisky, it has to some crappy one like red label Johnnie Walker , where the Valeo's own is a 32 years old Royal Salute.
43 minutes worth of data, sped up mainly, condensed to be 15 minutes. No cuts, just speed up to not miss any voltage + amperage data.
I dont usually monitor car's NET charging value from alternator to this extend, mostly I monitor those on yachts and I have to say the Valeo is so very smooth.
Timecode minute 20 to 30 are like acceptance charge, 4 to 2.x ish amps. Past 30 minutes is like a float charge heading to 1.x amp territory. Sweet
Thank you Surya for this video trip to gas station: best Saturday breakfast!
It's a great sight to see the alternator power all the consumers full time without crazy ECU draining Batt with ALT... zero yoyo BS!
This "LIN workaround" guaranties Alternator, PreFuse and Batteries see the lowest current possible without any killer 90Amp punches on top of car consumers (A/C Fan + ECU + Spikes >200Amp!) to toast ALT diodes.
I really enjoy to witness a low charge current (<2A) into a full battery from a stable contributing ALT. Makes for a happier engine experience with less un-necessary repairs.
Problem patched: your battery is guaranteed to have a long service life.
No weekly CTEK: the car now charges its own battery, what a concept Mercedes!! I believe your car may still benefit from computer Reboots as a drain protection against sleepless SAM.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-05-2022 at 01:58 PM.
Awesome! Thank you so much, Prihadi! I was waiting for it to trip a DTC but no codes! I am going to cut my blue wire and leave it hanging, that way I can leave the harness connector in the alternator socket and keep it clean. This is great news, as I can now get more voltage from my Lithium batteries to my stereo amplifier (I added a subwoofer and an amplifier) without any codes! Going to do this soon. My lithium batteries will rest at the alternator set point voltage when I shut off the car, it won't drop to 13.1v like yours or others with lead acid or AGM, another bonus!
Senecat,
Do becareful using Lit-Ion for our normal alternator. I say normal because it was not designed for the super high power charging rate Lit-Ion is able to swallow due to its very low internal resistance.
In the yacht sector, a company called Victron Energy is good with Domestic Battery Bank charging, and with Lit-Ion being popular, they are sharing their know-how.
Some long range sail yachts have a few thousand amps battery for engine-less cruise and refrigeration under total battery power only. Its like an RV but 10 of them in one capacity.
Hope the videos will be useful.
DTC wont appear as engine check light for the LIN removal. You need to scan the ECM and then you will see the Uxxxx code, for supposedly a communication failure to the starter/alternator.
Since MB knew that the LIN is only an intervention facility and not the true workhorse, hence not enough urgency to trigger engine check light worthy DTC.
Thank you Surya for this video trip to gas station: best Saturday breakfast!
It's a great sight to see the alternator power all the consumers full time without crazy ECU draining Batt with ALT... zero yoyo BS!
This "LIN workaround" guaranties Alternator, PreFuse and Batteries see the lowest current possible without any killer 90Amp punches on top of car consumers (A/C Fan + ECU + Spikes >200Amp!) to toast ALT diodes.
I really enjoy to witness a low charge current (<2A) into a full battery from a stable contributing ALT. Makes for a happier engine experience with less un-necessary repairs.
Problem patched: your battery is guaranteed to have a long service life.
No weekly CTEK: the car now charges its own battery, what a concept Mercedes!! I believe your car may still benefit from computer Reboots as a drain protection against sleepless SAM.
Glad u enjoy the video/data Senor Cali
Come to think about it, how stupid the YoYo is.
CAN BUS is basically voltage differences as information. Same with computers/ECM/Modules where they speak 0 and 1 or ON vs OFF, Low Voltage as binary Zero and High Voltage as binary 1...something like that.
Our 5 volts sensors some produce analog voltage swing, since they are 5 volts, surely the use voltage regulators or drivers...whatever.
Our 12 volts devices like Ignition Coils, Fuel Injectors and the rest, would love stable 13.8V to 14.3V as assumed alternator output.
If voltages values are : as digital information or analog ones, why would one be careless enough to even allow a dumb-azz input voltage YoYo in the first place ?
I mean introducing a potential disturbance parameter is simply bad practice...right ?
I think the MB engineers were trying to get 1 MPG with this charging scheme, every MPG is a huge difference to the Employment Prevention Agency, EPA.
The smart charging started before ECO start/stop, my '12 has it and the Blue Efficiency logo on the fender. I like this idea for two reasons, maybe I wouldn't need a trickle charger if my battery was charged by the car to 100% ? Even if I do charge it fully, If I go for a drive, it comes back charged to 80% anyway and I would like the radio to run longer when the car is off. I also miss the "rest" button to get heat while parked with the car off, but seems that is long gone.
US EPA has nothing to do with this.
Smart alternators are mandated as part of the Euro 6D-Temp standard, and nearly all new cars have them, even stalwarts like Ford F150 pickup trucks.
Glad u enjoy the video/data Señor Cali
Come to think about it, how stupid the YoYo is.
CAN BUS is basically voltage differences as information. Same with computers/ECM/Modules where they speak 0 and 1 or ON vs OFF, Low Voltage as binary Zero and High Voltage as binary 1...something like that.
Our 5 volts sensors some produce analog voltage swing, since they are 5 volts, surely the use voltage regulators or drivers...whatever.
Our 12 volts devices like Ignition Coils, Fuel Injectors and the rest, would love stable 13.8V to 14.3V as assumed alternator output.
If voltages values are : as digital information or analog ones, why would one be careless enough to even allow a dumb-azz input voltage YoYo in the first place ?
I mean introducing a potential disturbance parameter is simply bad practice...right ?
The voltage yoyo swinging between charge and discharge is an undetected faulty condition without a DTC#.
When some of these cars work normally, the voltage transitions are very smooth and slow as described in designed doc.:
ALT always supply 100% (Consumers + Main)
Batt is always under charging condition managed by voltage steps [14.9, 14.1, 13.5, 12.6] to create a positive only charge current, zero swing and never below 12.6V in discharge territories.
It is not an ECU algorithm logic that decides to drain the battery through the ALT... that's data corruption.
There may be quick 5s. test periods involved when the ECU controller is not charging Main, after each start to measure AUX values (plus perhaps after a Hyundai reboot to calculate internal resistance under a measured load).
While ALT is no longer remotely controlled, ECU and VIP's are still busy disfunctioning.
That's why I did not call it quit with a workaround after seeing how well designed the Valeo regulators are.
LIN-less is a pretty good trick for now. Your car is much better off with good DC power to run A/C load.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-05-2022 at 09:39 PM.
Smart alternators are mandated as part of the Euro 6D-Temp standard, and nearly all new cars have them, even stalwarts like Ford F150 pickup trucks.
Yes they do, every car manufacturer needs to meet the EPA MPG standard, if they don't they must buy credits from Tesla or others for non-compliance. so every MPG across their model line is important to get the best MPG possible.
Last year alone, automakers who chose to sell cars in the USA, bought TWO BILLION DOLLARS in carbon credits from Tesla because they couldn't meet those standards set by the EPA.
Also the Euro 6 D is an emission standard of the EU's EPA, I have a plant in between Turin and Milan where we get credits to sell as well.
Last edited by pierrejoliat; 03-08-2022 at 12:18 PM.
> TIMEOUT TYPES:
Today I got to play music while parked - This actual thread main topic, right. Sorry DFWD for highjacking things a bit, my only hope is good battery gives you get extended playtime
There are multiple ways to keep listening to COMAND music. Obviously we are trying to extend the timeout with the lightest battery load.
Park your transmission in P.
Pull the key out (press KeylGo to Off)
Open driver door
Close driver door
Soon everything goes dark
PRESS "ON" button in center rotary volume!
I think this is the lowest system load (need to use DC-Clamp to measure Amp draw)
> CHEATING with IGN-ON:
Emergency need for a classic Rolling Stones:
- - "Ok, I don't care, I want my music"
You decide to turn the key to IGN-1 (never mind IGN-2 vampire).
Now the car wakes up: 4x Parking lights, iCluster, Display, Door accents plus COMAND audio.
The two SAM power managers respect your IGN Control until voltage gets unsafe for engine restart.
You may get more time but with extensive starter battery drain.
Using any "Ignition ON" position power up more consumers and cost more battery draw - Not my favorite pick.
> DC PWR MGT:
- It is done by the computers hosted in both of the SAMS circuits (CAN, Shunts, Fuse, Relays).
- The SAMS measure, control and switch the power needed to operate the different car modules based on requested modes.
- When you press "CMD:ON" button, Comand request to Power ON the string of MOST devices.- 99% of modules remain in Power-Down mode (ECU/TCU etc...). Some modules like SAM and Keyless sleep partially powered to wake up their tributaries.
I did not care to clock my battery drain time while testing what follows...
> Are gremlins reading this forum ?
We've seen how disconnecting the ALT LIN is a great way to get a stable 14.4V power supply on cars affected by yoyo discharge.
all charged full by ECU over LIN
Today I got the same 100% charge with ECU controling ALT output [14.9; 14.4; 13.7] nicely stable voltage with smooth step downs.
Edits: The only step missing is the "12.6V Float" which I've witnessed earlier. <<< I did reach it!
transitioning to 12.6V Float 👍
Great so finally perfect: all the expected smooth charge transitions... NOP! I then got a bit of 12.3V... unsure exactly why just yet - I'll pinch this bug!
These test results tend to prove:
- target charge is 100% full, not to 80%.
- yoyo pattern is evidence of faulty control.
My yoyo-car needs additional poking. Hopefully my ECU will keep managing the ALT-LIN smoothly. Knock on wood, experimental research: nothing carved in stone yet.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-08-2022 at 07:02 PM.
Reason: Timeouts: A or B ?
I almost fogot, without fob key in slot we still can listen to music. my bad.
But I can't then video log the current consumption with ease.
So probably 6 hours of music can be done on my car if load down to only say 5 amps including more sleeping modules than those awaken.
03-05-2022, 08:02 AM
like red label Johnnie Walker , where the Valeo's own is a 32 years old Royal Salute.
my bad.
