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In my experience extra air into one cylinder can cause mis fires for sure but also a lean burn condition which leaves the spark plug dry and usually white on the center electrode. Mine is black like it is running rich? I will go back and look at the #1 injector wires again, Second note, the fuel trims as I recall were always trying to add fuel to bank 1 where cyl 1 2 and 3 are located. Maybe extra air in #1 is triggering the extra fuel call by the computer? I did install new gaskets/seals in both the upper and lower manifolds. Since I have spark and compression I think #1 should pick up if I spray gasoline into the manifold at the throttle plate?
West,
Since the intake plenum is out one more time, not sure if you already checked there for leaks around the lower intake manifold and cylinder #1. Not only at the top, but at the bottom where it meets the cylinder head
Fingers crossed this is the last opening.
I know that it is ridiculous but also look for any blockage in the #1 cylinder air supply.
S-Prihadi makes a good point on why that end of the fuel rail could be blocked. Can't remember have you removed it previously and inspected / flushed / reverse flushed it?
In my experience extra air into one cylinder can cause mis fires for sure but also a lean burn condition which leaves the spark plug dry and usually white on the center electrode. Mine is black like it is running rich? I will go back and look at the #1 injector wires again, Second note, the fuel trims as I recall were always trying to add fuel to bank 1 where cyl 1 2 and 3 are located. Maybe extra air in #1 is triggering the extra fuel call by the computer? I did install new gaskets/seals in both the upper and lower manifolds. Since I have spark and compression I think #1 should pick up if I spray gasoline into the manifold at the throttle plate?
I think you know this but to be clear the way to test for manifold leaks would be to spray flammable brake fluid at the manifold gaskets in the vicinity of #1 cylinder, while the car is running and look for an uptick in speed.
Finally!!!!!!!!! I have it running with ZERO MISFIRES. Did a lot today, pulled the manifold again. Re tested the wires from the #1 injector to the Computer, tested loaded and not loaded. Loaded with a 5 amp load looking for any loose connection or bad wire splice. Found nothing. Did the same tests on Injector #2 and #3 just for comparison. All 3 were very similar readings so ruled out injector wires once again. Inspected the manifold, found nothing. I had sprayed brake clean around the lower intake gasket while engine ran yesterday and it made no change in engine run so ruled out lower intake leak.
Pulled the dang fuel rail again, inspected the rail and injectors again. With #1 injector removed from the rail I tilted the rail up so #1 was down, similar to what I did prior. Fuel runs out of #1 injector hole. So no problem right? Wrong. After flowing out most of the fuel I used my compressor, 140 PSI and my air gun with a rubber tip on it. Blew air into the fuel inlet and more fuel blew out of the #1 injector boss. With 140 PSI blowing it blew fuel 3 feet in a mist. Damn lucky there was no spark local or that would have been ugly as my garage is in my basement. Vented the garage and no problem. I blew this to a newspaper sheet so if something came out it should be found on the white pages. There is a photo that shows what came out. Cleaned everything up again, swapped my #2 and #1 injectors, knowing #2 had never misfired I thought it was a good idea to swap. Removed all 3 injectors and moved them around. Yep, I know you have to program the computer to match each injectors flow rate code, I did this on start up.
Not one misfire from first start till after a 50 mile test drive, drove in the hills, car under a pretty good load, then on the flats, zeroed the MPG measurement in the dash while driving on the flats and it was getting 32+ MPG at 73 MPH. Before this car barely got 24.5 on the flats. It is still tuning itself after the full reset but shifting and engine keep getting better as I drive it. I have never ran across a car problem that stumped me like this one did. The kicker, the voltages for the #1 injector kept telling me there was a wire issue on #1. That #1 injector was always reading higher voltage than any of the other 5 injectors. Guess what, while running great with no check engine lights or misfires that #1 injector still reads higher than any other cylinder just like before. For you poor souls that put up with me through this pain in the butt repair I Thank You again. I never did get that damn WIS to work so all the tech info passed on really helped.
My only afterthought as to why the #1 plug was dark and not lean looking when removed each time is a guess. I am guessing that the #1 injector blockage was allowing fuel to dribble out or maybe kept dripping out while running letting it burn poorly making a mess in the cylinder but not adding the power it should have added like a healthy cylinder.
One last thing, the Fuel Trims, O2 sensor readings and the Smooth Running of Engine options all read perfect now. LTFT, Long Term Fuel Trims are less than 3.5% now. I think it was -18% prior to repair.
Now, to clean the car up so my friend can make his daughter happy, she just graduated from College last week so hopefully this will get her around for a while with no trouble.
Little black piece next to the finish nail that is now a test probe is what came out of the #1 injector feed hole. No idea where it came from initially. NO MISFIRES!!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Well done!! I knew that you would get it!
This outcome is such a relief to read.
This was a really really tough one.
I had the same hypothesis for the dark plug as you did.
"My only afterthought as to why the #1 plug was dark and not lean looking when removed each time is a guess. I am guessing that the #1 injector blockage was allowing fuel to dribble out or maybe kept dripping out while running letting it burn poorly making a mess in the cylinder but not adding the power it should have added like a healthy cylinder."
This thread has really been inspiring to own a W212 given how the community has come together and how you have brought us along for this journey. We have all learned a ton about our cars through this and I feel indebted to you for that.
And finally you are one hell of a friend! I'm sure your friends daughter will be thrilled with her "new" Mercedes.
Really glad to have you and all the others that contributed along the way as part of the forum!
CONGRATULATIONS as well. Great work. I am impressed.
The common denominator between the different misfires situations seemed to be between assembly and disassembly. The electrical path, though enlightening, was a distraction. However, the "maraca" was not the harness but the fuel rail.
From the picture, that piece seems like a sector of a gasket or seal. Likely from upstream. Anyone here knows if there is such component upstream from the injector to the , guessing, the connection the low pressure pump. Coming from the tank after the filter does not seem possible.
Thanks Guys, as mentioned before I was not the first wrench inside this engine. On first removal I noticed the #1 injector seal was leaking, my guess is that was leaking because it has been removed and installed before. Maybe damaging the teflon seal on install? The Teflon seals don’t just start leaking. They are good for life of the engine as long as someone does not damage them. Add to that I had the injector out 4 times trying to figure this out. At first the car did show #3 misfires but switched to #1 misfires soon after I had it. Maybe that piece migrated? Who knows. I try to work clean and I do not think I introduced the issue but no way to say absolutely. Each time the fuel rail came out I would tip it up to drain the fuel. When Injector #1 was changed a total of 4 times I tipped it up and watched the fuel drain out each time. Fuel drained easy so I never suspected a blockage could be in there.
I do suspect it was in there the whole time I had the car since at least two others had been in there before.
Checking the electrical I could see where people had been in there before also so this problem has stumped other wrenches. There is no way I could charge for the amount of time I spent/wasted chasing this problem.
At one point the owner suggested just installing a used engine. That would have solved it also but we would never have known why.
Thanks again.
Last edited by Westlotorn; 06-24-2023 at 12:36 PM.
It's interesting on chasing these things down. I had a '62 220SE coupe that would pull when I applied the brakes. I replaced a bunch of front end stuff, rebuilt the calipers and would have somebody press on the brakes with the bleeder open to compare how it would flow. None of these fixed the problem. I was at the indy one day and mentioned it to him and he said the flex lines would tend to swell with time. I replaced the flex lines and problem gone. So much for my eyeball bleed test.....
There is also a Youtube video of a Mercedes mechanic who buys a CL65 and goes to repair the ABC system. He has figured out the fluid is not getting to the rear struts. He blows the lines out rebuilds the rear valve block valve. No love.
Takes the rear valve block out again looks inside is convinced that nothing is wrong with it but a buddy had given him another rear block to try. Installs it problem gone.
I think we learnt a lesson here. LESSON 1 . If someone "been in the car" or buying a used car without knowing its history, we must set our troubleshooting method to the MOST IMPROBABLE POSSIBILITY.
If this engine were to be the non direct injection, West would have done injector pressure drop test and found out that injector #1 is not "spending" enough fuel.
But with GDI, no such test menu exist on any scanner, not even Xentry as the pressure of 200 BAR/3,000 PSI need engine to run to get HP fuel Pump to mechanically be pumping.
Port Fuel Injection uses 12V powered fuel tank fuel pump or engine bay located fuel pump and at best 70 PSI it is easy to test as many OE scanner or 3rd party one has such test menu.
================
LESSON 2
Rubber/polymer material has a life span unlike copper washer
That restriction is indeed part of the top stem o-ring. Its perfect radius shows it is from an o-ring.
LESSON 3 Possibility 1 - Who ever the John Doe worked on this engine before West, was rough with handling of o-ring.
Surely the John Doe did not have the installation tool as shown on above image, but when one is gentle, one can do it without special tools.
Sometime using 3rd party o-ring of wrong size ( smaller ) can get o-ring to get a cut like that.
Possibility 2 - This o-ring is original but went dry and got damaged during normal use.
O-ring at that pressure and heat, is so stressed.
So, is a pre-warning to us GDI injector owners, do watch out for o-ring damage or aging and it will come your way some day. No O-ring will last an engine life-time.
MB diesel once had an issue of black death, because its copper washer which is equal to this o-ring in terms of duty, which is to SEAL, failed and caused a lot of problems for owners.
The usual type of fuel injector leak is commonly referred to as ‘Black Death’. It refers to the messy carbon buildup that fills the space around the fuel injectors, pipes and wiring.
It’s caused by erosion of the tiny copper washers that seal the fuel injectors to the cylinder head.
Partially combusted diesel fuel escapes from inside the combustion chamber and sticks to the top of the engine as a black carbon substance.
Poor copper washer, defeated by corrosion and not by pressure of fatigue.
NOTE : MB common rail diesel pressure is INSANE !!!! 1,350 BAR maximum, that is 19,000 PSI.
Our petrol GDI pressure at typical 2,700 PSI max is like we blow with our mouth and the diesel common rail pressure is like Hurricane Katrina.
I picked up the piece I found in the fuel rail. It is hard plastic? Looking at the first injector I removed there is a missing piece of plastic on that injector. The hold down clip seats in plastic and this one injector was missing part of the area that normally seats. How it got up above the injector to plug the system is a question but with the rail out holding the rail upside down as you install injectors is pretty common.
If the problem had stayed intermittent like it was when the car arrived I may never have found it.
This car will not agree to be done. Now it shows my intake camshaft cam adjuster has a short to ground, Never had this code P209200 before but I have not been able to drive it much because of the misfire issue. Still Zero misfires even after the cold start today. Thank God.
The Cam Adjuster connector has 2 wires, one is on the round side of the connector and the other wire is on the square side of the connector. Square side seems to be for the computer ground signal. Round side is Positive all the time to the Battery. I checked connectors on both intake cam adjusters hoping to find a difference. Bank 1 works fine, Bank 2 kicks the short to ground code. P209200. It is a hard code, trips with the engine on, engine off, trips with the connector plugged in or with it disconnected. Bank 2 will not clear at all so I would call this a Hard Code. Bank 1 has no codes unless I disconnect it and it shows a code that signal is lost. Plug it back in and this code will clear no problem.
Both Connectors Read battery voltage full time in the square side pin, always hot, key on or off.3.57 volts if I check voltage to ground on the Round side pins which are supposed to be only grounded by the computer. Do not know why they show voltage with engine off and key off. So both connections test the same but Bank 2 driver side has the P209200 code.
I have the ability with my scan tool to activate each cam adjuster and watch the change in *, the scan tool tells me what range the cam should be in activated and de activated. Checks at idle and again at 3,000-3,500 RPM. Both intake cams adjust normally, I engage and disengage and watch them adjust so the adjuster solenoid is working even though the computer says it is losing signal to ground.
I do not know what pins in the computer feed the cam adjusters since I still have no WIS working. Dang. Oh well. I wanted to turn the car over today but have to find this repair first.
Makes me wonder if the new Grounds I added are causing this but I thought I connected only to grounds going directly to the 16/5 connection. I think I should either kill this note or move it to a new Post to avoid messing up the Misfire repair. Thanks again guys. My next step is to go get my E350 the white 2012 car and compare to the readings on this 2013 Black E350 just for background knowledge.
Both connectors read voltage of
Last edited by Westlotorn; 06-24-2023 at 04:13 PM.
Update tonight, could not clear the cam adjuster code even with the adjuster disconnected so I checked the wires, they seem good. I decided to give it another test. I have the spare computer, installed it, cleared the codes and they have not come back. Went on a good 60 mile drive, Did lots of hill climbs heading towards Lake Tahoe. No Problems at all. My scan tool shows no codes, also shows all the smog devices have tested and are all good. It is running better with every mile driven as it re tunes and re sets everything. I called the owner and told him it is ready for pick up. His Daughter should be happy. Not sure why the second computer allowed everything to work so well but I am not arguing with success. I chose not to rev it past 5,000 RPM but it pulls really well to that point. This car has loud exhaust on it, makes it sound like a Subaru. I would never consider this option for my car. These engines run well, are efficient, but they do not sound good loud. Personal choice I understand but not my cup of tea. Thanks again for all the help and therapy as this was figured out.
( I know, if I had just checked the fuel rail before installing those other injector who knows it may have been fixed a month ago! ). But the damn thing drained clean fuel out the injector feed hole so I figured it had just been washed clean.
Last edited by Westlotorn; 06-25-2023 at 02:30 AM.
West wrote :
I picked up the piece I found in the fuel rail. It is hard plastic? Looking at the first injector I removed there is a missing piece of plastic on that injector. The hold down clip seats in plastic and this one injector was missing part of the area that normally seats. How it got up above the injector to plug the system is a question but with the rail out holding the rail upside down as you install injectors is pretty common.
If the problem had stayed intermittent like it was when the car arrived I may never have found it.
So your injector has that plastic rim which is the blue o-ring groove, chipped off ?
====================
West wrote :
This car will not agree to be done. Now it shows my intake camshaft cam adjuster has a short to ground, Never had this code P209200 before but I have not been able to drive it much because of the misfire issue. Still Zero misfires even after the cold start today. Thank God.
This car has fell in love with you, after all these intimate sessions
You have "massaged" her wire harness, you have fixed all known issues successfully, and now she wants more LOVE from you.
This is what Xentry describe as P209200
So we look for Y49/4 Left Intake camshaft solenoid
===================
Okey, let troubleshoot again...............
West wrote : I do not know what pins in the computer feed the cam adjusters since I still have no WIS working. Dang.
Its the 2 engine computer wiring diagrams I given you much earlier in time.
Re attaching again.
ENGINE CONNECTOR diagram so it is M connector, coordinate 33L.
Z7/35z2 is from fuse 24
Fuse 24 >> X26 pin 7 >>> 2 of Z7/35z2 splices
1st splice of Z7/35z2 goes to the COP4, COP5 and COP6 which is bank 2
2nd splice of Z7/35z2 which is at above image goes to : Those 4 components, shown below :
West Wrote :
The Cam Adjuster connector has 2 wires, one is on the round side of the connector and the other wire is on the square side of the connector. Square side seems to be for the computer ground signal.
Round side is Positive all the time to the Battery.
Yes, that is a 2 pin Hirschamn/Kostal connector where the rounded edge is always Pin 1 ( ECM M connector pin 47 ) and flat edge then must be pin 2 which is
from Fuse 24 or Z7/35z2 splice and is permanently ON, when and if ECM wakes up.
West Wrote : Both Connectors Read battery voltage full time in the square side pin, always hot, key on or off.3.57 volts if I check voltage to ground on the Round side pins which are supposed to be only grounded by the computer. Do not know why they show voltage with engine off and key off. Anytime you lock or unlock the door, open the door, open the trunk and open the hood if hood was closed in the first place, ECM will wake up even without ignition key in the slot. Wake up for a few seconds, like 10-15 seconds.
This ECM wake up period will depends on if the car been driven or not for the past say 12 hours. If car been driven a short while ago, the ECM wake up could be a bit longer, like in anticipation the car is
going to be operational again soon.
Specific to HOOD switches : It has what is called WORKSHOP mode, when and if the hood is open a long time and kept open a long time, ECM will know that this car is in Workshop Mode for its hood 2 switches and
ECM will still sleep albeit hood is open. My hood when car at home , is always at that un-latched position ( workshop mode ) 1 inch lift up, so when I lift up hood fully the ECM will no more wake up.
West Wrote : 01.Both Connectors Read battery voltage full time in the square side pin, always hot, key on or off. 02. 3.57 volts if I check voltage to ground on the Round side pins
For 01, yes that square/flat side is from fuse 24, so it is always HOT. That is Pin 2.
For 02, rounded side ....that is Pin 1, how do you measure it ? You needle probed the connector while connector is inserted to the VVT solenoid ? ( I call it VVT solenoid for easier term.)
or you measure it with connector disconnected from VVT solenoid ?
For the 01 and 02 measurement, is it engine running or Key/ignition ON-Engine OFF ( KOEO ) ?
There are 2 kind of signals sent to this VVT solenoid.
One is diagnostic signal when engine is not running, key is OUT of the car, but car and hence ECM is a waken by me doing un-lock and lock via FOB key.
This is the signal/voltage of the VVT using equal to needle probing the connector. So connector is inserted/connected to VVT solenoid when voltage measured.
Both pins are measured against chassis ground, the W10 near the battery.
The other signal is the operational voltage when engine is running and this is a PWM signal, not normal ON only signal.
PWM is a fast On-OFF-ON signal read in % duty cycle. Your DMM if it has duty cycle feature, use it. If regular DMM measures a PWM signal say at 50% duty cycle of a 12V system,
the DMM will read approx 6-7 volts and not the full 12V. A scope can see the full 12V and % of duty cycle using its math feature.
Example of PWM signal sent to other solenoids : https://go4trans.com/technical-trans...cy-duty-cycle/
West wrote :
So both connections test the same but Bank 2 driver side has the P209200 code.
I have the ability with my scan tool to activate each cam adjuster and watch the change in *, the scan tool tells me what range the cam should be in activated and de activated. Checks at idle and again at 3,000-3,500 RPM. Both intake cams adjust normally, I engage and disengage and watch them adjust so the adjuster solenoid is working even though the computer says it is losing signal to ground.
My hypothesis for above condition is as follows :
Scan tool feature of actuation of a VVT solenoid is ON or OFF, the ON is a 100% duty cycle and not middle value like 50-60-70% duty cycle.
VVT solenoid is basically a small push rod which will move X distance for certain % of duty cycle applied, let say we use 10mm as maximum distance.
The distance the VVT push rod travel is "equal" to the oil flow opening of the oil valve of the VVT and that equals to the distance the VVT sprocket will advance or retard. ==========NEWS FLASH ===while I am writing this : West just updated the thread and replacing the 2nd ECM to the original 1st ECM solved the P209200 code ==============
Oh no, this GOOD news is such a BAD news in regard to possibility of what can go wrong with our ECM...damn damn damn.
What actually happen is this : ( assuming the VVT solenoid is healthy )
2nd used ECM has a weak PWM generator/driver for intake camshaft bank 2. Its voltage drop under operational load has reached <2.5V as per Xentry DTC parameter.
Usually voltage drop events if all wires are good, it is the device or the solenoid itself has its copper windings a mild short and hence it will consume much more power but working output
is not full. Say a brand new solenoid can push or pull to 2,000 grams at 10 watts of power consumption, a weaker one can pull or push only 1,000 grams of force for the same 10 watts of power.
The ECM has driver or power generator of PWM type for each and every VVT solenoids, just like how older ECM with 2 wire COP, its driver is inside the ECM and not at the COP., this driver goes bad overtime.
West, I would if I were you measure the current consumption ( amperage ) of the Bank 2 intake VVT solenoid to compare it with Bank 1 intake VVT solenoid.
If indeed the Bank 2 intake solenoid is already aging and is consuming more power than normal, and 2nd used ECM driver is not as healthy as 1st original ECM driver ( hence DTC code produced ),
in the long run the 1st original ECM may suffer the same faith like the 2nd used ECM. I am just being extra cautious here.
I will try and answer questions for you. Thanks again for the help. The solenoid that is still in this car but on the second computer was brand new 2 months ago, same as the other 3 in this car. I have the removed parts and could install one of those. I would need to back probe to see what is going on while engine runs. All of my tests were done with my professional test pins made from finish nails! Don't laugh they measure correct. A hammer, a vice and 5 minutes time, a little touch up to width on a grinder and you are good. I ended up making 4 of the small pins and 2 of the larger pins to help with testing.
So your injector has that plastic rim which is the blue o-ring groove, chipped off ? No, your picture shows a plastic lip about 1/2" lower than the piece that broke on mine. If you look close at that injector and it is the correct design injector there is a lip just below the electrical connector that is where the locator clip is inserted and that is where the injector was missing a small piece. That lip not only holds the injector in place it also clocks the injector so the wires face the correct direction on install.
If all that information you have been generous to share is in the WIS I really need a working copy. It could have helped so many times on this repair.
Wow, looking back we now have 213 posts to fix a simple Misfire issue. Who would have thought.
Damn, now you have me thinking I should change out that camshaft actuator even though it is brand new.
You guys have a great weekend.
Thanks
Mark
All of my tests were done with my professional test pins made from finish nails! Don't laugh they measure correct. A hammer, a vice and 5 minutes time, a little touch up to width on a grinder and you are good.
Mark
That I never will doubt your surgeon hand skill
The back probe needle best for me is a 0.6mm OD one, as seen below as 1st choice. Bigger OD I seldom use if for MLK 1.2 terminal back probing.
I need it to be 4mm banana plug ready, so must buy.
Banana plug ready, first choice 0.6mm OD back probe needle with my scope end banana plug
The blue masking tape at needle pin is to prevent short circuit as the needle metal portion sometimes is longer than needed penetration depth.
I have VVT solenoid test wire kit complete with male and female connector. This is also my DIY kit, but I need to buy the connectors.
This wire test kit I can do current reading by current clamp
or by using DMM be-in-the-middle of the circuit amperage reading using the COM (-) and Amp port of DMM.
The test wire kit is what I call intervention type, so I can disconnect any pins by un-stacking the banana plugs.
Update tonight, could not clear the cam adjuster code even with the adjuster disconnected so I checked the wires, they seem good. I decided to give it another test. I have the spare computer, installed it, cleared the codes and they have not come back. Went on a good 60 mile drive, Did lots of hill climbs heading towards Lake Tahoe. No Problems at all. My scan tool shows no codes, also shows all the smog devices have tested and are all good. It is running better with every mile driven as it re tunes and re sets everything. I called the owner and told him it is ready for pick up. His Daughter should be happy. Not sure why the second computer allowed everything to work so well but I am not arguing with success. I chose not to rev it past 5,000 RPM but it pulls really well to that point. This car has loud exhaust on it, makes it sound like a Subaru. I would never consider this option for my car. These engines run well, are efficient, but they do not sound good loud. Personal choice I understand but not my cup of tea. Thanks again for all the help and therapy as this was figured out.
( I know, if I had just checked the fuel rail before installing those other injector who knows it may have been fixed a month ago! ). But the damn thing drained clean fuel out the injector feed hole so I figured it had just been washed clean.
I totally agree on how terrible these sound when someone messes with the exhaust. There are a very few V6's that sound that good loud. The new Lotus Emira is one.
The purpose of my last post was intended to address second guessing the order of the investigation. Solving these problems are really hard particularly when they are intermittent. Sometimes it also takes a bit of good luck to solve these problems. One of our leaders in my business communities used to say "work hard to get lucky" and you certainly fulfilled that end of the bargain.
This is probably of no value, but doesn't hurt to mention it: When my cam actuators have no power to them I get that code. Not when I turn the ign On, only after I crank it. I get a code for each; 2088, 90, 92 & 94. How I came to find this out is another story, but fyi. So no short to ground, it's just the programming making a best guess. In my experience, and I seem to have worse luck than most, the codes are almost always incorrect. Completely incorrect, or mostly incorrect, but sometimes it does give a clue.
I too agree with the exhaust mods. People take out the resonators and it sounds awful! Or take out the mufflers, or both. For what, a couple extra horsepower? At the same time, when you floor it, it's like sending up a flare alerting all police in the vicinity that you're breaking the law. Even when not hotrodding it tells cops you are a hotrodder and need to be pulled over just because. Hard pass for me.
Mine, an E550, has a stock exhaust and it's too loud under load imo. If anything I'd want to tame it down.
For a final on this car. My buddy's daughter's birthday is tomorrow. The car went to a detail shop today, it will be sitting out front with a big red ribbon tomorrow for her birthday. All is running really well and I hope it stays that way for quite a while! You guys were such a huge help on this project. I hope I can return the favors in the future.
For a final on this car. My buddy's daughter's birthday is tomorrow. The car went to a detail shop today, it will be sitting out front with a big red ribbon tomorrow for her birthday. All is running really well and I hope it stays that way for quite a while! You guys were such a huge help on this project. I hope I can return the favors in the future.
I grabbled a couple photos as the tow truck driver was loading the car. I should have taken some before he got there. That is the truck driver in some of the photos. The driver was smoking the whole time he picked up the car. The car was a non smokers car so no smell. He jumped into it with a cigarette and drove the car up onto the flat bed. I bet you can still smell that today. As you can see this car was all blacked out and most of the trunk is taken up by a boom box. License plate reads: MURRCEE
Last edited by Westlotorn; 06-27-2023 at 01:33 PM.
Mr. Prihadi, are you working on your car to repair or tearing into it to help fix this car? Are you close to fixing your issues? Your information was a huge help while tracing and looking for issues. Being new to electrical tracing I learned the MV and Ohms tests varied depending on how good my connections were. The different length test wires I used had unique voltage loss in each one. I reduced this by making sure each alligator clip was secure, I even soldered some to make sure I reduced loss. I also found the longer my test lead the more MV or Ohm loss happened. At first I was not consistent making sure to use the exact same set ups to test each wire. With more practice and sticking with the exact same set up for every test I started to find consistent results. As you mentioned the MV tests are sensitive enough that the results can change by 60 mv just by touching the lead wire because our body works as a ground. Learning experience for sure.
West wrote :
Mr. Prihadi, are you working on your car to repair or tearing into it to help fix this car? Are you close to fixing your issues?
me always itchy handed, so I have to find excuse to tear into my wiring and in this case I have your car as an excuse.
This long thread of your M276 has made me thinking, what if it happen to my car....what troubleshooting can I do ?
Besides, I never took a deep look at my COP being a 4 wire version, compared to M271 a 3 wire version.
We troubleshooter will want to have a database of a "known good", and this comes handy when we have issues or failures, to compare our known good values to existing trouble.
So as you learn, me also learn to know my car ECM related wiring better in its actual physical layout and not its wiring diagram.
Millivolts voltage drop is indeed a sensitive measurement where tightness and cleanliness matters so much. Even our hands can generate millivolts reading, easy 40 mv.
Each wire length add resistance. However the worst contribution to voltage drop per 1 cm of its length is not the wires, it is the relay contact and its pins, the fuse super small burnt-out link and its pins,
and any intermediate connector like X26 used in the circuit the female and male terminals in them. Fuse is a safety thermal link, so it is so commonly warmer than the wires downstream of it.
I like your fighting spirit West, I really admire it.
I also know that your friend is a good friend and his daughter would probably call you Uncle West, someone dear to her.
No one will put this much effort ( for a car not his own ) and FOC unless for the love of who owns the car and the wrenching you also enjoy so much.
In my culture, we call close friends of our parents as Auntie and Uncle.
Actually, it was not so much for love as for pride, when a shop could not fix it, ( or quoted a huge estimate to fix it) my friend called and asked me to fix it since I had just bought and fixed my 2012 E350 which was a piece of cake repair compared to his car. Mine only needed one cam adjuster and the new tensioners and anti drain back valves installed, at 85K. His daughters car had 2 broken cam tensioners, the misfire issue, 3 cam sensor wheels out of sync and 155K miles. But his had a nice stereo and she liked the rims and tires. Anyhow he asked for help and I figured 3-4 days and it will be good. I had no idea how much trouble I stepped into, out of stupidity and being embarrassed to say I could not fix it I kept at it till a solution was found. 3 days before it was fixed I swear, I stood back and looked at it holding my phone ready to throw in the towel, so no hero here but I really hate to fail when I take on a project.
You guys bailed me out when my WIS would not function, (still does not function) and constant suggestions to keep moving forward. Hind sight is always 20/20 but I really kick myself for not cleaning that fuel rail on the first removal. Could have saved a month or more of trouble shooting. The part that threw me was the fuel rail draining easily out that #1 injector hole. I held it up and drained it to a bucket. I watched clean gasoline flow right out. I looked inside and only saw a very clean fuel rail, did not see that piece of plastic. It never acted like there was any restriction or reason to do any more cleaning but I sure paid a price for not cleaning that dang fuel rail. I think it was off a total of 4 times. You guys may know how much work it is to remove all the parts on the fuel injection rail and High Pressure pump guard to do this project. I did get faster at it but hope to never do it again.
During my marine diesel days as caretaker and have a techy under me, fuel clogging been always a problem with such poor diesel fuel my country sell back mid 1990 to 2010.
Sometimes some fuel hose will swell inside due to age and make flow restriction. However those days there was no common diesel rail engine I maintained, so each injector gets 1 fuel pipe direct from the fuel injection distributor/pump.
Unlike our GDI using a main common rail/pipe per bank. Blowing out dirt in fuel pipe was always done, 150 psi air we use, from scuba tank , so no need workshop compressor and the air is
super clean. Also there is never ever plastic used on the oldie 200 BAR diesel injector. it is mechanical spring operated and no electric contact whatsoever.
Your case is super rare because it is not bad fuel but Uncle Murphy paid a visit and gave some baby sized chocolate chip ...LOL, but it is good from now on to blow any fuel pipe/rail and hose with the 140 psi shop air, be it someone been in there or not.
Actually, it was not so much for love as for pride, when a shop could not fix it, ( or quoted a huge estimate to fix it) my friend called and asked me to fix it since I had just bought and fixed my 2012 E350 which was a piece of cake repair compared to his car. Mine only needed one cam adjuster and the new tensioners and anti drain back valves installed, at 85K. His daughters car had 2 broken cam tensioners, the misfire issue, 3 cam sensor wheels out of sync and 155K miles. But his had a nice stereo and she liked the rims and tires. Anyhow he asked for help and I figured 3-4 days and it will be good. I had no idea how much trouble I stepped into, out of stupidity and being embarrassed to say I could not fix it I kept at it till a solution was found. 3 days before it was fixed I swear, I stood back and looked at it holding my phone ready to throw in the towel, so no hero here but I really hate to fail when I take on a project.
You guys bailed me out when my WIS would not function, (still does not function) and constant suggestions to keep moving forward. Hind sight is always 20/20 but I really kick myself for not cleaning that fuel rail on the first removal. Could have saved a month or more of trouble shooting. The part that threw me was the fuel rail draining easily out that #1 injector hole. I held it up and drained it to a bucket. I watched clean gasoline flow right out. I looked inside and only saw a very clean fuel rail, did not see that piece of plastic. It never acted like there was any restriction or reason to do any more cleaning but I sure paid a price for not cleaning that dang fuel rail. I think it was off a total of 4 times. You guys may know how much work it is to remove all the parts on the fuel injection rail and High Pressure pump guard to do this project. I did get faster at it but hope to never do it again.
It's incredible how much fuss that caused you. All in all, these cars are pretty hardy, but they're dramatic. I had gone through a similar situation with my car, a high repair quote, throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at it and then- oh, that's all you wanted?
Last edited by AllPhonesAretap; 06-29-2023 at 10:26 AM.
Reason: added more context
06-23-2023, 12:18 PM
CONGRATULATIONS as well. Great work. I am impressed.
