cetialpha5

I don't think it really means that much, they just refer to that as low viscosity. If you look at the spec sheets, it does look like it's lower than 236.14 which was ATF 134. ATF 134 FE was also blue in color vs ATF 134 which was red. They switched to ATF 134 FE sometime in 2011 I believe so all cars after that was ATF 134 FE. The ATF 134 FE spec sheet says not to mix it with MB 236.14.

https://operatingfluids.mercedes-ben...heet/236.14/en

https://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/me...-datasheet.pdf

https://shell-livedocs.com/data/publ...88f7a72a9a.pdf

W205C43PFL

Perfect answers my question thank you

CaliBenzDriver

FE: "FUEL ECONOMY"... meaning extra-low viscosity.

As soon as pump working gaps increase the pressure loss will follow. "Easily lost pressure" is what spells short lived performance.

To boost old tranny pressure: substitute 1 or 2 or 3 quarts of the non-FE blend. It helps make up for looses.

W205C43PFL

I see, appreciate the explanation.

Quint22

All that and ya dont know what the FE stands for and consider it irrelevant. Maybe some more research is in order.

ChrisHimself

I use Amsoil in all my cars and my customer cars when they are open to it. Amsoil doesn't hit the list of the Mercedes approved oils for the transmission but so far no issues. No multi-spec ATF is going to be approved by the manufacturer, so you're taking a chance, keep your old fluid but I've been doing really goofy science experiments on the beater S550 we have as a shop car. The fluid spec isn't THAT strict, so long as you have fresh fluid. I've run Ford Mercon LV I had extra of, the Amsoil FE, and Maxlife ATF and all of them were fine and shifted smoothly. The Amsoil signature FE ATF claims a lot of longevity and durability over time though.

The regular stuff goes bad after 20-40k miles despite having a 60k interval, nobody I know does the torque converter drain including my Mercedes dealership unless you give them a very hard time about it and show them the service bulletin that specifically tells them to do it. The cars are just hard on the fluid, but the transmissions themselves are GREAT.

The fluid works very well so far on 722.9, the AMG transmissions, and whatnot.

The first time I did a drain/fill we kept my old trans fluid in case the performance was worse. I cannot tell you how it holds up over time but the product literature says it goes farther than the normal drain interval so it sounds like they're trying to suggest it's a one-and-done.

FE refers to fuel efficient, aka these low viscosity ATF's that have been hitting the streets, Toyota/MB/Audi/GM/Porsche/Ford/VW all have one. They're thinner for minimal fuel savings but they degrade faster in my experience.

Uh regarding the approvals thing, basically Amsoil is always fiddling with the formula from what I understand, and each one needs a new approval process, and so on. Those Supertech and Amazon european oils aren't on the approved list and trust me, they're more than fine on these cars.

Now I don't RECOMMEND everybody just jump ship and start experimenting with fluids Mercedes does not want you putting in the car, but in my experience they've been good and have lived up to their claims.

kajtek1

There is no way end customer you can judge quality of fluids.
I do have education about oils, but when I got fed with all sale pitches and BS about oils, I used different oil brand for each change and send samples to the lab. That was on my Ford Truck diesel and surprisingly the dino Rotella come to the top of 6 oils I tested.
So Rotella was what I was using for older cars.
Now, driving Bluetec I am aware that they can be very sensitive to oil generation as several of them seized under dealer care. What turned out, the most likely scenario was dealer saving money on newest generation oils and used older generation oil they had in drums.
Amsoil sells the product by brainwashing the customers. They might have some good products, but I don't support such sale tactics as principle.
For other fluids, I usually need them once in the period of ownership, so not much possibility to test them. I just buy them at dealer or following MB list.

CaliBenzDriver

I don't care a whole lot about oil companies becauses they sale pretroleum products in the market they control.
Amsoil is in the research and wholesale business of train load of industrial oils. They may well have the best true gas based oil formula, what we do with cars is none of their priorities.

The additive packages is where automotive oil competitors try to differentiate themselves. Same misterious additive mix in different percentage. I can guess the most additive in the best stock oil base is the best oil... that would be the Penn Ultra-Plat.

The engine rubber supplier has a formulation resistant to heat but sensitive to acidity ie. dont let your fluids become too accidic (calcium additive protection against accidity)....


Diesel vs. Petrol engine protection:
Diesel oil can offer superior protection for lack of requirements to prevent contamination of platinum catalytic filters.

We know our petrol engine can burn a lot of their own crankcase oil. This directly degrade lambda and cat converters.
So an oil with super high lubricant package can benefit friction but hurt mufflers.

Which oil is best to use... likely the most compatible with OEM specs.

nc211

Wow, all of this for just asking if anyone has used this stuff before! But after 20 years on car web forums, I guess I should've known better than to ask about any type of better lubricant! Haha! I'm getting rusty. Hey, at least it wasn't about tires.

Thanks for the info gang. I think I am going to give it a try and see what it does. But have to talk to my shop first to make sure they can drain the torque converter too on mine without it costing an arm and a leg.

Chassis has commented before about the clutch plates, especially that 4th gear. I am mostly curious if switching the trans fluid brand itself would make an improvement here. Guess there is only one way to find out. I do know my car runs smooth at butter when the temps outside are below 90. Once it gets summer time hot though, it does shift a little lumpy, I get that "skip" feeling, almost like a misfire, but no fault codes ever thrown or stored.

I am also going to have the PCV replaced finally too. I know I have a small trace of oil getting into the intake and all fingers seem to point to the PCV needed to be replaced.

Chevota

I use Amsoil for the engine, because why wouldn't I? I'm certainly not using what the mfg is forced to push on us with the EPA holding a knife to their ribs. When I do change the oem tranz fluid I will be using Amsoil. I'll be changing the diff oil soon, and of course using Amsoil.
So no, I have not, but I will. If I don't care about the car then I'd buy cheapo Ford fluid. I use Ford fluid in my GM, because it works better

ChrisHimself

The symptoms of your ATF going out are that it starts to shudder once it gets hot. Itll also smell burnt and not be blue anymore, which is data to determine your interval. As for the TC drain, you can run 1-2qts extra through the system in small amounts and let it drain out while it's running and to get a little more of the old stuff out (theres like 2-3 qts left behind which is fairly signifigant). I typically drain about 4L IIRC so theres at least HALF of the old stuff in there. Its the automotive equivalent of doing partial aquarium water changes I guess. The old stuff smells nasty I would feel bad if a ton of it was stuck there.

W205C43PFL

Wow that is a lot left, good advice to flush it to force the old stuff out.

kajtek1

I just did the service on my 7 G+ transmission. Did not want to deal with TC, but experience with previous transmissions make me let it drip overnight.
I collected full 5 qt of old fluid, what will make good exchange ratio.
Magnets had nice puddle on them, so I wonder if that might be the 1st service in car 150k miles life.

nc211

My shop tells me they can indeed flush all of it out, and they know my car inside/out. Said it'll take about 25 quarts to get it all done. Just ordered three 2.5 Gallon jugs of the proper AF trans fluid from an Amsoil vender. We shall see what this does. If anything, consider me the guinea pig I guess. I'll report back with results!

juanmor40

If your 722.9 has the torque converter drain plug there should be no need to use additional oil to replace the oil in the converter. Or at least not that much.


Interestingly, Sr Leigh was not as accommodating/patient with the drain plug and resort it to creativity


Does anyone know which 722.9 have or do not have the drain plug? Is it based on specific platforms? or years? I read that only the early version 722.9 on the S-Class (guinea pig) does not have the TC drain plug,



Some documents from other threads:

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...-converter.pdf

From the documentation master, @konigstiger
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post7364264

nc211

I'm not going to argue with the guys at my shop over a few wasted quarts. I'd rather they have more than they need and waste a few flushing everything out if they need to. But yeah, I agree, it seems like a lot of transmission fluid to do the job.

My transmission code from my data sheet is 722960 07 754738. What does this mean? I haven't a clue. The card also notes: "A63" - FE Torque Converter Housing-0, and "A64" - FE Torque Converter 0 MM. Also has "A89" - Reduced Friction, which I believe is when the "blue" transmission fluid instead of the red comes into play.

juanmor40

Not sure what you use to translate messages, but the point is: there is an established procedure to drain those torque converters with a drain plug, and I bet there is a "shop procedure" that "shop understands and feels comfortable with" that may not apply to ALL MB, but to those they encountered issues with. You definitely have something against defined processes. Here we are just adding information for those interested in the thread (sure starting with the OP->you), but nothing written on stone.

nc211

No no, I'm with you 100%, I agree. But I leave this up to my shop who I trust, and if they tell me they need 25 quarts to fully flush it all out, well I'm ok with that. How they flush it, is their magic. The owner is a second generation MB mechanic whose dad is one of the Sr. techs at a major dealership in our area. Guy has a strong, loyal and deep following across the brand in my area. In my viewpoint, if I waste an extra $75 on trans fluid yet save probably twice that amount on labor rates, it's a wash to me.

I have thought about taking some of this on myself, I have turned more than a few wrenches in my time. Totally rebuilt all suspension components, removed and cleaned a few solenoid screens, plugs, fluids, cleaned out a few intakes and butterflies. But honestly, doing that all again at 50 years old and for a car that isn't "my toy", getting on the ground and sliding around underneath, really just doesn't ring as exciting to me as it once did long ago. Wish it did to be honest.

cetialpha5

Seems like 25 quarts is a bit high, never heard that high a number from any of the hold threads. Sounds like they're flushing it a couple of times. I called my local Shell distributor and they have Shell ATF 134 FE at $88.97 for a case of 12 quarts. How much is Amsoil now?

juanmor40

If you feel comfortable with the indy person then, you can always mention the documentation (that some dealers even deny it exists). It will be even more illuminating to hear from the experts on the field the why of not using a procedure. It could be something like "ours is faster", "we have a tool that does it w/o mess", " we had never seen that document, but will consider it next time or if you want us to follow it", etc.

There always is a story behind a procedure. I go through these "I know better than the previous engineer that was here" every week, and I have to wait until they come around with "Ohh, I never thought about xxx, and yyy" or myself with "very clever approach, and it takes care of the previous requirements as well". It works both ways.

======
Note: last week friendly talking to a Senior Engineer at a turbo manufacturer about oils (because this thread and others related to turbos), he emphatically said that if I did not care much about MPG, to raise engine oil from 0W-40 to 10W-40 if listed in the manual. His recommendation for longer turbo life was:
1 - 10W-40 if listed in the manual, screw 0W and 5W
2 - DO NOT ever step on the gas of a turbo engine that is still cold unless I wanted the turbine side impeller to rub against the housing. Let it reach operating temperature; otherwise, the housing has not expanded yet
3 - DO NOT ever turn off the engine after an Italian tuneup w/o letting it sit, or driving it soft to let it homogenize/uniformly heated/cooled all around.
He said, "you do that and the turbo may outlast the car". That is how confident they are in their designs. He mentioned the 0W-40 was too thin for the turbo shaft bearings, and theirs are tested vs 10W-40 and proven to last longer.
Food for thought.

nc211

This makes perfect sense to me, and how I would like to flush mine. System pulls in the new while pushing out the old.

ChrisHimself

$13 ish for Signature
$9 for OE

Signature is typically if you're super hard on your vehicles beyond their design limits like a truck towing heavy for a long while and the temps get way up there, you can destroy an ATF fill on one particularly gruelling cross country trip fully loaded. The OE is for everybody else. You should just check your drained fluid and evaluate for yourself when your intervals are.

25% off link, nobody should pay full price.
https://www.amsoil.com/offers/pc/?zo=7236674

Amsoil Signature Series FE ATF
https://www.amsoil.com/p/signature-s...tl/?zo=7236674

Amsoil OE FE ATF (normal stuff, probably works fine)
https://www.amsoil.com/p/oe-fuel-eff...tl/?zo=7236674


Bilstein ATF 134 FE I've been using for a LONG time for years between different cars the AMG GT-S was on it before I switched. The Liquimoly 1600 Top Tec which is absurdly expensive at $16/L and neither are approved by BEVO and I would bet my houseyou would have a good long life using either of these. I usually recommend 7L for said flushing technique. But 25L is more than welcome if you wanna pay for it

The G, GLK, GLE are particularly hard on ATF due to the weight, so honestly with all the "why my does my transmission blah blah" threads on here I'm surprised people aren't drawing conclusions to the OEM fluid having a much shorter interval than advertised! I'm well aware it says 60k but no way in hell across 3 different vehicles have I ever gotten remotely that far with a fresh drain and fill.

Youtube of me showing what Pentosin ATF134FE typically looks like after 20k, I'm hard on the cars, idle them in the summer, etc. This is the approved correct fluid, 4.5L out, 5L in, 2 more L behind it to chase out some of the old stuff it felt gross driving beforehand like this with tons of shudder when it was hot, it would lurch in the mornings til it warmed up til it started shuddering in the heat of the day. all my vehicles this day. Please excuse the music I'm still a kid at heart.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h2u0rPqFQFM

PS I will mirror what a couple people have said, DO NOT let them use a flushing machine, it flushes stuff UPSTREAM from the filter into the transmission where it would never go, and it usually drains out through a transmission line from the radiator from what I understand. You can also blow out gaskets which have spent their entire life functioning one-way and suddenly having fluid reversing isn't great. Shops tend to have a machine they got conned into buying because it would "increase profits" that they're itching to use like a brake rotor or flywheel lathe but I would adhere somewhat to the accepted procedure of either doing a partial 5 out of 7L drain and fill, maybe do it again in a year if you notice shuddering, or put 5L in, and introduce a little bit at a time and let the extra drain out across an extra L or two to be really sure. It looks great after this.

I'm happy you purchased 25L but for environmental reasons I just feel bad that so much fantastic ATF that would otherwise last you many drain and fills would get recycled for the sake of OCD.

Chevota

You guys will probably cringe, but if my converter has no drain plug I'll drill a hole to drain it.
I understand the 25 quart thing, but I would simply be physically unable to do that. I was telling someone the other day; I am physically capable of cutting off my fruit basket, yet it is impossible :p

ChrisHimself

Nope I'm OUT on that idea, cars have survived off the partial change regimen for a while. If you can't change the entire 7L just do a drain and fill, and do another one in a year and you're good. The entire Mercedes brand has been run off doing it half-assedly for decades now, and a lot of the time, not at all.

OH I should show you guys the best setup.. so most people have some contrived setup from a converted chemical sprayer for doing ATF fills, it's REALLY not that hard. So after you fill it, just overfill it by half a quart at a time, let it come back out til it dribbles, repeat, run a couple quarts extra and you're pretty clean afterwards. If you use this handpump it transfer a crapton of fluid quickly and efficiently, no fatigue at all it's actually ergonomically correct too. For filters just buy the kits VAICO sells with the bolts filter gasket magnets fill tube, buy two extra bolts just in case, and you're gonna be totally fine.



25% off Amsoil

It'll thread directly onto the Amsoil bottles, trim the plastic fill tube so it hits as close to the bottom. The Mityvac 7201 that most people are recommended is an absolute piece of ****. I cannot get them to last six months of professional use. When you look at one it's literally just held together with hot glue and they lose pressure over time from blowing out their own seals. I know how to keep these maintained I clean and wash them and don't store fluids in them ever. I would rather you guys use these handpumps and rinse them under the sink than go through the trouble of dragging a stupid tank around with its stupid leaky tubes splashing every where. It's not even very good for oil extraction oil changes because you have to stand there to keep pumping it, vs you can just undo the plug and walk away and have a smoke/beer. It's 30 minutes to extract the oil and you still have to transfer it back into the container to recycle anyway and for me I have an oil caddy which is already super convenient and I burn it for heat in winter.

MBNUT1

I had big plans for working on my car when I retired. Now at 67 it has far less appeal than at 50. Now I know why people drive Toyotas.