grb39633

I really need to get a WIS

S-Prihadi

YES YES YES.
Get the ebay one, complete with EPC + WIS. Year 2020 is good enough.

grb39633

I will I will I will.... Lol

grb39633

Hey Mr S man
I have 4 of these bushings brand new in box
Part #2043520027
If you need two there yours..

S-Prihadi

So kind of you, thank you
I already got them.


How much they charged you in USA for each ? MB Indonesia charge at US$80 each.

grb39633

I didn't get OE.. I bought moog off rock auto.. Only cost like 10$ each.. I never had a problem with Moog and I've used them for years

S-Prihadi

The one on MB is by Lemforder , the Part #2043520027.
Also the 4 big ones for subframe, both type by Lemforder.
The rest of other bushings I can't track the brand.


Lemforder logo on the left image. CR is the rubber type : Chloroprene Rubber

grb39633

The bushings on Mercedes web sight also charges 80$ each in USA . That's pretty much why I went with Moog... 10$ each.. Probably why I bought 4... lol

grb39633

I'm gonna change them this weekend.. I will let you know what happens.. fingers crossed.. Is there really anyway to check integrity of the bushing without disassembly?

S-Prihadi

The 2 small ones on wheel carrier , unless it is crazy torn, if only a little "tired", very hard to inspect when car is stationary as there is no force enough to make it misbehave.

grb39633

I figured.. Just thought I would ask.. thanx

S-Prihadi

G,

Have you inspected the rubber spring base #100 and the plastic cup-base #90 condition ?

Correction, the item #100 on my photo should be item #90 and vice versa.






MB placed the image sequence wrong

grb39633

I have changed the upper spring shim but not the cup.. But think about this and tell me what you think.. I jack car up from the diff... Then place jack stands and lower to ride height on control arms.. then loosen and retorque the stabilizer bar to frame 60ft lbs the noise goes away.. Then after a few days the noise slowly comes back a little day by day til it's bad again... Then Jack up and do it all over again.. Then slowly comes back again .

S-Prihadi

Ok, now we know that the bushing itself of rear stab bar is vulcanized and the bolt you tightened to 60ft-lbs /80Nm ( correct value ) has nothing to do with the bushing, it is about mounting the stab-bar to the subframe.







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So in this case the "noise" you get is more of metallic than rubbery squeak ....right ?
I think you should try using Loctite blue thread sealant this time around.
The claw of the self locking nut of yours may have weakened.

I have once a problem with SuperPro ( aftermarket ) front stab link ball joint end.
It recommended 50Nm and has special nut which has friction ring to prevent loosening, but it wont last at 50Nm, it will get loose and make the metallic sound from the ball joint end OD
hitting the bolt hole ID at the Bilstein B4, which has some clearance. I then use 75Nm and all good, because MB uses 98Nm.


How are the holes of these two ? Have they gone bad over-sized ?

S-Prihadi

Is this is your H & R spring ? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-...ing-set/52728/
1.3 inch lowering is 33mm, that is a lot in terms of total rear suspension travel.
My standard spring REAR suspension when in full droop is 47cm from fender lip to center of hub and at ride height it is 37-38cm.
So I guess your suspension ride height would be at 33-34cm now.

Below : I mean this measurement for the REAR ride height. This was still using 265/35-18 , now I am at 255/40/18 and is 9mm taller tire wall.



In theory, the 33mm lowering will cause your rear stab-bar to "twist" more ( at ride height, even when static ) and that in return place a higher load on the stab-bar bushing metal casing/holder and that bolt+nut you
have tightened a few times. Perhaps this added load kept making the stab-bar bolt/nut loosen over time ?

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grb39633

What u say makes total sense.. I always thought if u lower the springs u should shorten the links.. I've looked around and I haven't seen any shorter or adjustable links for the E series.. But the problem is only on the right side.. And when I do jack up the car the bushing to frame bolts are not loose.. That's y my original post was are the bushings supposed to let the bar rotate or not.. I just really need a lift

grb39633

Forgot.. yes the stabilizer brackets are in good shape.. Car only has 80000 on it .. one owner and Arizona car . No winters no salt..

grb39633

I'm gonna check that upper spring cup.. That sounds very possible if you could hear what I hear.. I thought it was just shim and frame . Again I gotta get a WIS..

S-Prihadi

People say that mercedes torsion bar/stab-bar rubber is vulcanized to the shaft.
So it should act like suspension arm bushing, able to twist X to Y degrees and the rubber material aid in resisting or slowing down the twist.
The stab-bar metal itself is a torsional spring like how 1983 Honda civic does not use coil spring but use torsional bar spring.
https://insaneshafts.com/product/is-t01-is-t01/

or this car torsion bar "spring"


So we have two component fighting the twist, the stab-bar metal itself and the bushing.
If bushing is not vulcanized to stab-bar metal, I supposed it will be like a crude rubber based "bearing", hence those serviceable ones can have lubrication on the rubber material.

If the noise is from worn out rubber, it would not be metallic.
How do you describe your noise ? Metallic or how ?

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The spring cup where the spring actually sit and has spring stopper groove , it is rubber. Item
The correct item #90 in EPC.





This one is plastic. I believe the small threaded stud is already welded to car body. So to remove this item #100, we only need to screw it counter clockwise.




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grb39633

Gonna pull the spring cup this weekend...
The sound is exactly like you would think if the stabilizer bar was hitting underside of car.. Not metallic but more like thuds that follows the bumps..
And yes they are the springs I have but that noise has been there since the day I got the car with all the stock suspension. I've replaced upper shock mounts springs shocks end links. Thrust arms spring shims and some bushings back there also. And your KYB bump stops

grb39633

S man I've been saying all along that if I over torque the rear stab bar that my suspension tightens up and the noise stops for a bit.. Well that makes no sense now.. The way the bar is held over tightening makes no difference UNLESS the bar mount hole IS WORN OUT.. Like u said . So I figure over tightening is stopping it from slopping around on the mounting bolt.. So I'm gonna pull the bolt and shim it up to see if that's it . If so I will just machine a new bolt that fits snug . Think maybe we solved this one.. By any chance do you know what the original hole size is?

S-Prihadi

They are M12 x 1.5mm pitch.
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Same size as the arms bolts, M12 by 1.5mm pitch too.




The image I showed early, does the hole look oval to you? Here , below : I zoom it.






I found another used listing, this one looks more round the hole....to me.




I am just trying to understand the mode of failure.
The bushing metal body seems to be aluminum, so it is softer than the steel bolt.

Dang, I just completed my bushing change this evening and the car is already on the ground and wheel linerhairy/fleece one is already installed, I want to use magnet to test
the bushing body.

grb39633

It is aluminum.. I'm at work now but I'm gonna tear it down soon as I get home.. I will let you know..
And yes it does look oval in the picture

grb39633

S Man,
So here's what I found so far.. I brought two 1/2-13 Allen bolts.. They measure . 494 OD. The flanges that the stab bar bolts to are just a hair two small for the 1/2-13 to fit through so I'm gonna turn a few thousands off the bolt tomorrow at work so it fits nicely.. When the bar is loosened you can move it around quite a bit side to side.. Pretty sure it shouldn't fit so sloppy.. Now that's the bar aluminum mount that's sloppy so I am pretty sure it's worn out.. Dont think there should be so much play.. Now I'm sure you know in order to replace this I need to drop the sub frame.. I'm gonna try to work around this.. Gonna see how it is when I put the 1/2-13 in tomorrow.. If it's still sloppy(which I'm sure it will be)I'm gonna either use some shim stock to take up the slop or try and figure something out.. It's just there's not a lot of room to work. I just don't want to go through the hassle of dropping sub frame for nothing . Unless your planning on coming to USA any time soon..

S-Prihadi

G,

I gave this sway bar challenge some thinking.
Sway bar is a 2 point bolt down system, so I guess accuracy is quite low for bore hole to bore hole distance.
MB probably weld the stab bar 2+2 flanges using some sort of jig, or whatever the name of the device is to ensure accuracy of bore A to bore B distance and height and angle.






Using worse case accuracy allowance under ISO for the bore diameter itself.
Lets use H11 bore tolerance , only + 0.11mm and that means max for two bores it will be +0.22mm or 0.00866 inch.
I doubt welding two distant flanges A & B set can produce accuracy this good bore hole to bore hole distance, on something so crude as a subframe.


So there is a chance the oval shape of the bore at the ALU bushing body (2 pcs ) is on purpose, to allow room for bore to bore error at them flanges A to B.
If the oval in on purpose, the key is to create wider friction area on the ALU bushing body for its mating to the steel flanges....hence that unique shape for the ALU body mating surface.





That is my hypothesis
So if I am correct, perhaps using thin shim between the bushing ALU body to flanges may be one of the alternative and surely a good strong bolt.

I recall replacing the rear Camber Arm, how it felt when I need to push in the arm into the 2 flanges, it is low friction. Not loose, but not crazy tight, or else it will be tough
for us to install. I bet this low-friction fit is what MB also uses for the Stab-Bar ALU bushing body.

What do u think ?



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