grb39633

You very well maybe right but from a machinist point of view I would think if it's done on a assembly line it wouldn't be much of a problem keeping tighter tolerances.. Considering it's probably Fanuc robot arms doing the welds..(I program fanuc controls every day) as I don't know how it fits brand new, right now I can slide the bar left to right about 1/4 inch or . 25 or 6.35 mm.. Seems for German engineering that's quite a bit..That's the hole in the aluminum mount that's sliding back and forth with the bolt just loose.. I ran out of light today(only have two hours worth by time I get home) But I didn't have time to disconnect the stabililizer links to check up and down movement.. I will check that hopefully tomorrow after I get home...
I'm also gonna send you a short video of a job i just finished programming on a Mazak Integrex (CNC 5 axis) I think you will appreciate..

grb39633

By the way where do u actually live?

S-Prihadi

So if say the bore is actually M12 virgin round at 12.1mm, the play is 3.18mm per side. Or 18.3 mm side to side oval hole it has become.
Since you say assembly line can achieve good accuracy, so the oval pattern left-to-right is more of a wear and tear ? Yes?
For the ALU bushing body to be able to be "oval-ized" at its bolt bore hole, that means the wear and tear is more at the ALU mating surface to the steel flanges, loss of friction maybe loose bolt,
the stab-bar then can move left to right making wear and tear this time at the ALU bushing bore. If this is the case, that means very much likely the rubber to stab-bar is indeed vulcanized to have such
superior holding power...don't you think ?


-----

I am always amazed at such powerful CNC machines, let alone 5 axis one. Never actually seen one in person. I remembered a long time ago in late 90s, I don't know now....but a mere 3 or 4 axis CNC machine needs
US Government permission to be exported out of USA. My friend who is a propeller guy told me about how good CNC machine can make super quiet submarine propeller and USA does not want that if the country is not on
their "beer buddy" list . Remember the Toshiba- Simrad/Kongsberg scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshib...gsberg_scandal

I know Kongsberg consumer division products for marine sonar, it is called Simrad.
I seen commercial Kongsberg multi phase/beam array sonar a coal mining company rented for survey of the river bed, Jesus christ the resolution was so insane at 20 cm or better at 30 meters/100 feet and shallower.
I was the one who was appointed to study the bathymetry data for feasibility of small barge + tug boat vessel going up the river all year round, which in dry season this river can loose 20 meters of its water depth and
the coal mine is at an altitude like 25 meters or so above sea level, 350 nautical miles inland.

I love sonars, I find lots of wrecks or uncharted reef and FAD ( Fish Aggregating Devices ) using good recreational sonar, but not multi phase/beam array ones.
Now me don't go out to sea much though.

I live in Indonesia, Jakarta the capital city...as per my signature. Bali is my second home, well 10-15% per year there about.
If you been to Singapore, I am 1.5 hours away by plane south-east heading.
Singapore to New York direct non-stop it would be approx 18 hours and add 1.5 hours Jakarta-Singapore.

ygmn

Something to think about..

As the Rear a-arms articulate up and down;
Do the torsion/sway bar end link mounts move laterally (side to side)? such that the bar would slide int bushing or in this case mounting bolt @ body is oval and has the required space?

Tis strange design an oval hole and has to be cast or cnc machined; as them OVAL drill bits are expensive.

I bet the tolerance on the location bracket points is +/- 1mm and they use fixture with some robotic welding arm as not much is manually welded any more on cars.
Figure worse case all mounting points are off a few mm at worse - this is nothing the rubber bushings, slop in normal bolt hole, end links and bar bending a bit could not handle.

Also if they then depended on the washer friction holding this contraption - yeah I bet you get a noise when it slips one way and then back hance why when you tighten it goes away for a while until the forces overcome friction again.

Is this a lock nut? maybe does not have to be so tight so it can move side to side a bit?

WIll say this entire sway bar design is a bit different then most - wonder why they did it the most complicated way possible?

grb39633

Terrible design.. worst I've seen.. Nothing with the bar is serviceable and the only way to change it is hours of work. (Sub frame drop) And the way the clamping works the should b no movement at all at the mounts.. When I work on it this weekend I will see if that oblong hole is factory or wear..
And no the end links have no side to side movement.. They sit snuggly in side the lower control arm

grb39633

New Custom Machined bolts for sway bar mount

grb39633

Sman my friend
Yes I do think the oblong is wear and tear.. And I do think the bushing holds with lots of force.. Turns sway bar to torsion bar that way..I will inspect this Saturday. Also the spring cup.. I just don't have enough time during the week and I don't want to rush.
And I've never been outside of USA .. Are you Indonesia born? Must be nice over there.
And I would love to look for shipwrecks.. love the water.. You mentioned something about "a cradle" for building boats. Is that your profession? That's quite an art

S-Prihadi

Ok, that makes sense when the used one on Ebay are mainly oblong shaped bore hahahaah.

Yes, I am Indonesian and born in Jakarta Indonesia.
I been to USA a few times, but more active in late 90s. I once visited Ocean Yachts Inc at Egg Harbor City, that is in NJ your city. Now it went bankrupt like 5+ years ago.
Usually I go to Miami Boat Show or the Fort Lauderdale one.
In 2015 up, usually I visit US west coast more than east coast. Now me cant bear the long flight. I hate long flight.

I used to sell yachts and maintain them for clients, late 90s to 2012 as very active, but I still do maintain and troubleshoot them till now, but only for very few selected good friends only.
I am also a 1996 PADI Open Water Dive Instructor., but I stopped teaching after Asian 1998 financial crisis and never updated myself and I do not teach anymore.
I only work in fields I have passion for.

Thru my yachts and diving world, I have met unique individuals from many other countries.
It is very interesting, I dove in Africa too, a poor country called Djibouti in East Africa.
I dove the UAE ( United Arab Emirates ) oil rigs in Dubai and HK offshore oil rigs too.

Indonesia and more so Bali is nice, at least for me and many other expats living in Bali, they find it nice.

grb39633

So worked on changing the stabilizer mount bolts today.. Was only able to get one of them changed today.. Fit perfectly on driver side.. Passenger side is a bit tougher.. There are two metal pipes of some sort that do move.. Of course there blocking the head of the bolt from being removed.. Gonna have to grind head of bolt off to remove .. Just need a good Dremel or small cut off wheel that I can fit in there...

S-Prihadi

careful..... those two are plastic fuel filler and vent pipe

grb39633

Thanx Sman.. wasn't sure what they were.. So fact that I split one open is bad??
Just kidding.. Stopped til I can remove it..

S-Prihadi

grb39633

This is just under the wheel skirt correct?
If I remove the hold down I should be able to move enough to get the bolt out..

S-Prihadi

Its hidden behind the hairy fleece wheel liner, yes.
I do not know how flexible such a STIFF fuel pipe is.

















Go to this web and have a closer look : https://baza.drom.ru/chelyabinsk/sel...257181334.html

grb39633

Thanks for that.
I only need about . 25 of an inch... I will try before cutting the bolt... Maybe I will luck out.. But probably not...

grb39633

So just finished installing the custom fit bolts.. So far after test drive back end feels 100% firmer.. I machined the new bolts (used 1/2-13 stainless steel Allen bolts) to .494 inches and used an adjustable reamer set at .495 and reamed through steel mounting flanges and sway bar mounts. I also used nuts that had a much larger flange to make more contact with the surface area of the sway bar mounting flange.The original bolts were . 472 +or- . 005.. I'm thinking maybe since the stock suspension is pretty soft the little bit of play in the mount doesn't make that bit of a difference..But since I lowered the car and put Bilstein b8 and H&R springs that maybe the stiffness of my aftermarket suspension is putting much more force onto the mounts that it's making the bar move in the little bit of play the stock bolts leave.. And now no play.. no movement.. See if this holds up after a few days of driving.. Fingers crossed. And Mr. S man, I would not have realized this without all of your input.. Thumbs up to you my friend ..

S-Prihadi

So good news
Next will be custom MOD for your sway bar end link, to match it with lowered spring.

What is your current lowered ride height if measured like I did mine ? Mine is 37-38cm

I first use a string & plumbob ( a bolt actually ) to see by gravity where is actual straight line from fender.... cutting thru the wheel hub true center.


Once you know how much to shorten your sway bar link which ours has unique angle to it between the lower portion towards the spring arm, and the upper portion towards the
sway bar.... you machine the required right hand and left hand male thread on the cut-in-2 sway bar link, like how a turbuckle threads are....for adjustment of shortening or making longer.





Surely we do not want exposed thread like a turnbuckle, we want fully closed thread ...something like below and best add mini nut for extra locking.




A tiny bit angled, A and B is not exact 90 degrees offset.





There is a sway bar torsional force online calculator, but it does not measure a shortened link.
However, it may give some know how worth reading.
https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Sway-Bar-Calculator.html
https://www.scribd.com/document/7447...Calculations-1
https://www.addco.net/how-swaybars-work/

I do not know how MB defined their 18 to 20 millimeters version of the rear sway bar, because I am sure it is also hollow inside and thus its OD is bigger than 20mm.

S-Prihadi

The bimmer/BMW boys seems to also have noise issue like yours after using lowered spring, and they use djustable end links.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lowe...hrome&ie=UTF-8

grb39633

Drove in to work this morning. It's like a new car.. How to bolts can make such a dramatic difference.. I will probably buy two new inks and experiment with the shortening... S man have your self a wonderful holiday.. I will be in touch .

S-Prihadi

I think you are a fast and skilled driver with a sensitive azz-dyno.
Now that the rear right stabilizer section can deliver its proper duty to the left rear suspension, you can feel the car behaving as it should and more so in corner or non smooth roads.
If you see the sway bar calculator, the force a decent thickness stabilizer can deliver is not small.

That unique articulating bushing you renewed now can also do its proper magic.

Sweeeeettttt

grb39633

So I've looked and looked but since lowering my car I have not been able to locate shorter or adjustable rear sway bar links..I was going to cut the stock ones and make a threaded sleeve to adjust then..Then I realized why not just relocate the stock link..It worked like a charm .Car feels way more planted and a much smoother ride. Check out the pic..Was able to do it only removing the rear tire ..Just a center drill and a .406 drill bit...took less then an hour..

S-Prihadi

Sweet................

DeanMassy

Welcome,

grb39633

Yes, you are correct...problem I had was enlongated holes and the "glue" let go on one side

S-Prihadi

Here you go GRB.... the WIS for sway bar removal..... where you must lower the subframe



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