S-Prihadi

I like it.....
The B6 quite a complete review is here ( compared to B4 ) : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...gine-data.html

S-Prihadi

GRB,

I am at the moment documenting the dimensions of the bushing and required tools for my rear subframe bushing.
And then something caught my eye and I was thinking that this maybe your source of the noise you are having.

See my remarks under the bolt item #290 part number
​​​​​



I assumed the EPC bolt data is correct, because M15 is not common at all, and hence the bolt is M14.
However, the bore for the bolt of this differential bushing is too big at 15.1mm.
All other bushing I am at the moment documenting been always having bore 0.2mm bigger than the bolts use, it is common practice for MB.
You are a machinist, you will know what I mean for this Engineering Fit or shaft-basis or hole-basis fitment.

So, it this bolt get a little loose, it will make surely some noise.

Let me know if this is the case with your noise source.

grb39633

Yes. That's an awfully lot of clearance..we usually only go .o1 of an inch for bolt clearance .. You are showing the bushings that are horizontal to the floor of the car right? The ones that hold the diff..
I will check them over the weekend.. I just got the kyb bumpstoos/910141 from Latvia yesterday so I will be under neath it anyway .
Thanx for looking out my friend...

grb39633

S friend

Are you actually going to be changing the sub frame bushings? Let me know as I want to do mine.
Thanx S man.

S-Prihadi

Yep, the DIFF bushings (2) facing rear bumper. The other one or a 3rd one facing FRONT, is not a bushing per-se, but more of like MOUNTING with bushing inside heheheh




This is the 3rd one.

S-Prihadi

Yes, next year is the plan because it will be 10 years old and I want my car virgin tight the next 10 years more.
I made a craddle for the subframe, here .............. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...em-cradle.html

I will list out the push pipe/tool dimension which you will need.
So you can make yourself some.

Here is the 4 big bushing of subframe , the special tool for it......which I bought, I can't make these .... no way
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...hing-tool.html
I will be replacing all these bushings mentioned in above link and the camber arms

grb39633

S man
I have the bushings new for the thrust arm at the spindle carrier In my garage if u want the dimensions.. And I also made an installation/removal tool for them if u need it.. i have something I want you to think about as u have a good mechanical mind which I don't see here often... Here it is . The noise I have coming from the back .... I started loosening and retourqing the rear torsion bar to frame at 60 ft lbs as Mercedes recommendeds.. the clunking was terrible at 60 but bushings are in good shape.. So I then marked all possible contact points on the torsion bar with greese but nothing showed.. So then I just started tightening the bushings in 5 ft lb intervals.. Once I got to 75 ft lbs the clunking has disappeared... I get that the rear suspension is now unable to flex as much but what's your insight on this.. I don't think the torsion bar is the problem but strange that tightening up the bar stops the clunk.. And one more thing. Even at 60 ft lbs the clunk is only on the right rear . Never any problems with the left... And I am gonna check the carrier sub frame bushings tomorrow.

Bushings look good

Thanks grb

CaliBenzDriver

... actually the "stabiliser bar", right?

grb39633

Yes.. stabilizer bar.. Depending where you look, Mercedes describes it as torsion or stabilizer bar.. here's an example.

S-Prihadi

.
Thanks for the kind offfer, will keep it in mind

======

Here is a case study I never forget, when it comes to suspension noise.
I used to own this small car : Toyota Starlet P70 / EP71 which they start selling in 1984. It is a 3rd generation.
This car uses panhard rod for rear suspension.

I abused it big time and one day it developed a funny metallic whipping sound, sound like metal to metal from the rear.
After sometime the culprit was discovered finally, it was the main bushing, see item with red arrow.








What I could not understand is the sound, why metallic sound ?
The rubber did not get torn yet. Tired probably yes.

So I think, if we burn the rubber, we may see inside such bushing that the internal metal bore maybe not simple round shape.
It may have some more complex shape like with a few tooth or notch, where the rubber can lock better to the inner bore. Simple round pipe is a slippery shape to "glue" or mould around.
Perhaps this tooth or notch is what is hitting the bigger diameter metal of the bushing and made such metallic noise.


======

Spring end part shifting on its seat, can also make low level metallic noise.

This is the thin seat for rear spring, how is the condition of yours ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354294734419
Its this metal with no rubber coating. The front strut spring base has rubber coating.





Are item 90 and 100 in good condition ?
Item 90 https://www.ebay.com/itm/175141151948
Item 100 https://www.ebay.com/itm/354304501025

=============

I had a Ford Fiesta 2010 which I replaced front McPherson strut using Kayaba, also Kayaba for the rear dampers.
The rear is OK, but the front sometimes makes a noise which I believe it is from the spring which does not sit super well like original strut.
The springs are all original Ford.
I can't describe the noise with words too well, but I know it is from metal to metal.


============

This is my front spring shim, which I need to replace as the rubber coating is gone.









This can make the noise I described on my Ford Fiesta 2010.




================================


On the rear bumper, there is a plastic part which can make noise. I have modified mine and zero noise now.
This plastic part holds the hairy rear wheel inner liner and also the heat shield




Even the tail light can make noise

S-Prihadi

Why is your spring seems to be "lifted" out of its parking spot when arm in full droop ?
Is it because the spring is lowered one ? How much lower/shorter ?



Above is today.



ADD
Below is in 2018

grb39633

Hey S,
I Replaced the bottom spring shims when I replaced the coil springs
The springs are H&R sport springs. Along with the Bilstein B8 the car is about 1.3 inches lower.. I did not notice that the spring wasnt seated when I took that picture but I literally just finished installing the KYB boots and bump stops you showed me and the springs are seated correctly.. One thing I noticed is the picture attached of the carrier sub frame bushings . Ones that face rear bumper.. In the pic u can see when the car is jacked up the bushings seem to have a circular cut going all the way around and the bushing is pressed up towards the top of the retainer.. Is this normal as I never noticed this before.. And does the sub frame have to be removed to change those bushes? And I just realized the pic of my spring not seated is because those shocks were still Bilstein B6.. For stock suspension so control arm would lower a bit more.. I changed to B8 a week or so later.
Thanks Grb

S-Prihadi

The DIFF x 2 rear bushings are by design to have a "cut" or groove by 10 to - 11 mm deep on both sides.
Total rubber thickness without cut is still 25mm. See below my ugly hand drawing.







,






.
`12 o'clock of photo below is UP



.
This is what I mean by VOID





Ony the rear bumper facing side have these 4 little protrusion. The one facing the DIFF or front bumper is without them.

S-Prihadi

The DIFF 2 bushing can be replaced without subframe being removed from the car.
But you need to remove the DIFF and the drive shafts, 1/2 of exhaust system and undo the rear section propeller shaft.


June 2020 archive when I replaced my DIFF internals to have a unique non-clutch based limited slip from Quaife.
It is called : https://www.quaife.co.uk/quaife-prod...-differential/



.




LEFT DRIVE SHAFT

CaliBenzDriver

Great call on your diff upgrade.

My stock RWD Diff is the most basic possible that wear rear tires assymmetrically.

grb39633

I just emailed them about an LSD upgrade.. And now I'm sure my sub bushings are good and by the way I have the same Mitutoyo

S-Prihadi

You can also try to contact WAVE TRAC http://www.wavetrac.net/application.htm
I heard it is slightly better than the Quaife.
However Quaife history is a long one and made as standard option of many cars. Personally I will chose Quaife.

This DIFF also will make tire wear NICE and equal.
I posted the review here :

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ited-slip.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ited-slip.html

I will spend money on DIFF and engine instrumentation, good tires and wheel and part of suspension, but I will not do ECM tuning yada yada for more power.
Eat them at the corners is what I like when I am slower by engine power compared to the other guy

CaliBenzDriver

+1: same views about NOT squeezing more power from injectors with ECU remaps.

Red-line WOT is one thing...
1500.RPM driveability another one.

Tasos says bent rods are on the tuned map LOL

grb39633

I will check them both out .
thanks

S-Prihadi

I use to tune my NA cars, but it was by porting and exhaust and 1/4 race camshaft. It is quite an art for those who can do smooth porting of the intake and exhaust ports.
Today computer based turbocharged cars , the tuners mainly are just keyboard warriors, there is less an art form and mostly when in super slow snail paced traffic jam or
as you say 1,500RPM range , drive ability would likely to suffer...I mean the smoothest kind of drive ability as if you are driving a royal family.

Remember the days with carburetor ?, all manual, the way we modulate throttle with out foot ....is in itself is an art form to get best speed and good drive ability.

grb39633

Q

S-Prihadi

G,

See the unique bushing item #40 at the wheel carrier/knuckle/spindle.




its like a ball joint/tie rod end in its articulation. I will autopsy it soon.








if it behave like ball joint/tie rod end, that means in a worn out condition, this can make some sort of "noise" which may be similar to worn out ball-joint or tie rod.

grb39633

I actually have that bushing still in the box. Let me ask you. I made a simple little press to remove that while still on the car.. Is there anything special I should know before changing it? And it's not an eccentric bushing for alignment is it? I haven't really looked at yet...
thanx

S-Prihadi

Here is the WIS on it..........
MB request alignment to be done.

They call that unique bushing not as BUSHING, but as Supporting Joint

grb39633

Thanx S man