inthezone0282

CaliBenzDriver

it looks great!
Enjoy

inthezone0282

The drive experience is incredible and I love the power!

Ohovde

Question for the group- I own a small business and am looking for a wagon as it will fit my tent for events / cargo / etc. That said, I have my eye on a 17 E400 with 82k miles single owner and then there are a slew of e350’s that look good.

Would you go with the 17 with single owner or opt for a 16 e350 if all things are equal? THis is my first foray into MB and dipping my toes in. The other piece, is maintenance from and Indy dealer that bad? Currently have a Lincoln Navigator we are selling to a friend who needs the size. Doesn’t seem cheap to maintain.

S-Prihadi

USA version 2017 E400 is still a W212 ? Or is a W213 ?

Ohovde

It appears to be the W213 for the 2017.

DubVBenz

The drivetrain on the W213 E400 is strong, but it's the first year for a new model, so I would avoid. A previous year W212 E350 Wagon will be more reliable, have just as much utility but will miss out on some of the newer tech stuff. If you end up with a W212, seek a 2016 model as it has an updated infotainment system that can be setup for android auto and apple carplay.

Ohovde

Thank you for the insight. Incredibly helpful!

El Cid

Your MB will cost more to service than your Acura simply because your Acura is built by Honda with Honda approved parts and service. In addition, MB dealers or even independents will charge more to service it. Parts will be more expensive. MB is not a "tank" and never really was. MB's have high reliability because they are overly maintained to comply with MB standards for maintenance. They also have lots of parts replacements that other makes do not require. I learned this from a leading MB organization and an article they had by a long established MB technical expert.
Would absolutely take it to an independent that you trust and have them scan it. Even then there are so many systems that could be ready for failure. There is so much technology and gadgetry on cars today and it is so "new" that much of it will fail at some point. Repairs will be expensive, particularly for MB's.
A lot of people on this site "dislike" Consumer Reports, but they are Number ONE in reliability surveys and testing ALL aspects of a vehicle. The 2010 MB E350 was highly recommended, so I got one. Even so I purchased the seven year warranty and had never done this with American, Japanese, Korean or European cars in the past. MB ended up replacing enough items under extended warranty that I saved money.
Don't get me wrong, I still have my 2010 because I think it is a fantastic looking car, drives well and rides well. But two or three non-essential convenience systems have failed and it would cost thousands to repair them.
Have a friend who owned three Acuras and loved every one of them. Drove them for very long distances with no significant problems. Only quit because he needed a truck.

El Cid

You sure you cannot find another SUV that will work for you? MB is very expensive to maintain and insurance rates are high because they cost more to repair. Not to mention state and local taxes that are based on make more so than actual cost.
Indy dealers will save you some money, but not much. I use one after staying with dealership for many years. Left dealership mainly over how long it took to drive there and back and how long it took them to do even simple services. Regardless, the parts will still cost MB prices or close to it.
While the Navigator may not be cheap, be prepared for the MB dealer or independent pricing, especially on parts.
If not for COVID, supply chain problems and exorbitant prices on used and new cars I would have traded for a Korean or Japanese SUV long ago. that plus the Phase One W112's look fantastic even compared to later MB's. It is also the highest rated MB in decades.
Good luck, but I would shop around more. Do you really need a station wagon? They are a dying breed, even more so than sedans.

El Cid

What stands out the most in these pictures? The MB STAR! I had sales people and long time technicians at MB dealerships tell me that it is all about the Star - or MB name. Anyone who says it is not is not being honest.
Why do you think MB has made such a major change to placing BIG Stars on the front of all vehicles?

El Cid

Congratulations - but start putting aside money for repairs - no matter where you get them done.

El Cid

I would trust your mechanic rather than the seller's - who may be looking to perform future maintenance on YOUR car.

El Cid

My car has MB Tex and it has been great - 14 years and almost no signs of wear. A little bit on driver's seat bottom bolsters. I Have had cars with leather and it sucks! Requires special maintenance or it has to be replaced. Easily shows wear.

ic3

Congratulations on the purchase and I wish you many years of happy motoring ☺️ look after the car and it'll look after you 💪

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Really late to this thread, so all of my comments are probably moot since they will not affect history (i.e., you already bought the car, which is beautiful). A few Debbie Downers posted above, BUT they were being totally honest. However, I do not think the MB Star is what makes the car. It's the vehicles themselves that are amazing to drive. However, I would not go for less than a C-Class car. I've had some brand new A-Class and B-Class loaners when having my cars worked on by the dealer, and am not impressed. I'm currently driving a 2023 GLB250 as a loaner while the passenger seat in my 2015 SL400 is being repaired, and prefer my son's 2018 Honda CR-V any day over it, ESPECIALLY for the price.


Since others have given you all the great warnings to help prepare you for ownership, I will make two or three recommendations:

1. GET A MERCEDES SPECIFIC SCANNER! If you come here for help, one of the first questions will be what codes do you have. DO NOT waste money on generic OBD scanners. Recommended scanners include LAUNCH Creader Elite BENZ, Foxwell NT510 Elite, or iCarsoft MB V3.0. All are under $200 on Amazon, which will likely be your bill to have the dealer scan your car. You will need to scan your car whether you have any warning lights on the dash or not. Scanning will also help you get smart about potential problems and costs of repair.
2. Do your own maintenance, if you can, and ownership will not be as expensive. If you need to take the car to a mechanic, make sure they KNOW MERCEDES CARS! Try https://www.benzshops.com/ to locate a mechanic near you. Some services can only be done by a Mercedes dealer, such as some transmission repairs involving replacement of the conductor plate. If you can, find a place that will let you provide your own parts. My Mercedes dealer does this for me, but many independents don't like to do that because they lose the little profit they make on parts and don't want to deal with customers providing substandard parts they get on AliExpress.
3. DO NOT neglect critical maintenance such as oil changes, transmission services, and brake fluid change.
   • Change the engine oil with Mercedes-approved oil every 5k miles or annually, which ever comes first. 10k or 15k oil changes are crap! DON'T do it.
   • Have the tranny serviced according to the maintenance manual. Pay attention to time intervals if you don't put a lot of miles on the car.
   • Brake fluid flush every two years.
4. Become familiar with @BenzNinja at www.benzninja.com who may be able to help with updates and software-related problems. He provides remote support to your car.
5. Bookmark good sources for parts. There are several online sites for parts, several offering lifetime replacement of maintenance items. A list of the most popular:
   • www.fcpeuro.com
   • www.pelicanparts.com
   • www.autohausAZ.com
   • www.ecstuning.com
   • www.rmeuropean.com
6. Understand that Mercedes are not Hondas. You cannot treat your Mercedes like a Honda--they do not tolerate neglect.

DubVBenz

China

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Let me speak to critical diagnostic and repair tools. I listed several Mercedes scanners above. While they are all good, the ultimate tool is XENTRY. Any of the consumer scanners I mentioned are not !00% comparable to XENTRY. XENTRY is just the software; you will also need a laptop/tablet that runs Windows 10 and a C4 Multiplexer with DoIP. XENTRY (a.k.a., MB Start and SDS) is what the dealer uses. It can do many things that the consumer grade scanners cannot. XENTRY is usually bundled with the workshop manual (WIS) and parts catalog (EPC), as well as programming tools that are best left to professionals lest you brick your car.

That brings me to mentioning, again, @BenzNinja . BenzNinja (also known as Peter) can remotely diagnose your car from the comfort of your home. He's kinda like having a dealer in your garage. Diagnosing a problem is more than fault reading, it is also evaluating and recommending options for repair. Since you are new to the Mercedes world, joining the BenzNinja club is an investment that will pay dividends over the years. Once in the club, all your Mercedes are covered. You may only have one now, but once you realize how superior these cars are, you are likely to get another. Getting a "previously owned" Mercedes is such a treasure. These cars depreciate quickly, not because there is anything wrong with them, but most owners don't know how to solve their own problems and take their cars to the dealership ---> $$$$$$. Doing your own work or having a resource like BenzNinja will make your ownership much more pleasurable.

Getting your car for under $13k is a great deal. I mean, a new Honda Accord is way more than twice that and is nowhere near the car you got. The thing is, stay active on this website. Contribute your knowledge and experience, as well as bringing us your questions and problems. Get the right tools. And be prepared to invest in the prize you just found.

El Cid

Should take this with several grains of salt-maybe a bag full. It is meant for the person/owner who is very, very heavily involved in auto maintenance, not the average owner. In the past I have done a lot of my own maintenance, but cars today are far more complicated for the average person. Still do some minor stuff, but let the professionals do the other. After all, it is your life and those you cherish riding in the car.
Comparing your car's cost to that of a 2024 Honda Accord is unrealistic. It should be compared to a used Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. of the same year and type.
M-B's depreciate quickly not because they have not been maintained, but because they are very complicated and expensive to maintain. The above poster assumes that people who purchase M-B's do not maintain them. BS!!! People who purchase M-B's are more likely than not to maintain them to make standards or even over maintain them. Someone who pays the high cost of an M-B, BMW, Lexus, etc. is going to be prepared to pay the extra high maintenance costs. If not, they would have purchased something else!
You may to wish considering joining the Mercedes-Benz Club of America. They have a magazine that provides a lot of information and have clubs all over America.
Incidentally Konigstiger on this site (see above) is an excellent provider of information.

El Cid

Also Americans

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

I'm not clear why my advice should be taken with any amount of salt. Not sure what your point is.

The comparison between a beautiful 10 year old Mercedes and a new Honda I think is very relevant when car shopping. You get so much more with a mid to upper level Mercedes at a fraction of the cost of a new Honda, Toyota, take-your-pick, but must be willing to preserve the purchase. The guy had a budget of $12k, which he exceeded, but still looks like he got a great deal. Telling him to be prepared to spend that much again without providing alternates isn't helpful. I never said Mercedes were not well-maintained. I was offering my knowledge to help a first-time Benz owner to get up to speed more quickly than having to make all the mistakes and learn for himself what to do.

What do you consider "minor stuff"? You, nor I, have any idea what the OP's mechanical expertise is. He may be very capable of doing more than "minor stuff". As far as complexity, my experience is that Mercedes are far easier to work on than other brands of cars. (Though changing the spark plugs on his M276 NA will be a challenge. Mostly, it's just time consuming compared to the M276 bi-turbo.). These cars are only complicated for someone who has never done maintenance on any kind of car. But, whatever he does, he needs to at least have the proper scan tool.

El Cid

As you said you are giving high level maintenance advice to someone without knowing his mechanical expertise. You are essentially advising him to purchase expensive test equipment and do his own maintenance or analysis. No car owner should need to purchase a scan tool unless he has a through knowledge of what all the readouts mean and what has to be done.
Whereas, I am just giving him advice from the perspective of someone who has owned and M-B E350 for 14 years. There are too many people on this board on like to work on their cars, have extensive experience and the wherewithal to afford all the tools and equipment needed to do it. Some seem to assume that everyone should do the same.
There are some very knowledgeable people on this site; that's why I come here. However, many people do not wish to become DIY mechanics - especially on the very complicated vehicles of the 21st century. I commented on my "expertise" just to show that I have some knowledge about DIY car maintenance. Incidentally, I have a Nissan Rogue and a Toyota Tacoma and can do far more maintenance on them because it is much simpler. I have changed brakes, transmission fluid, brake fluid, oil & filter, air filter, and more on Buick, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, Toyota, Mazda, Saab, Audi, etc.

Anyone who is honest will tell you that M-B's are more complicated than other cars. Only one example is needing special tools and knowledge to change the cabin filter. All other cars I have owned are simple and owners manuals show you how to do it. Not M-B. Heck, you need a torx screwdriver just to change the license plates.
Comparing a 10 year old used car to any brand new car is irrelevant. A new car comes with 3 or more years of bumper to bumper warranty and 100% brand new components. A 10 year old car has no warranty unless purchased and those are limited. In addition, M-B's have a documented record from many sources of needing more frequent and more expensive maintenance compared to American, Japanese or Korean cars. In addition, they have low to poor reliability scores. As for Honda, it generally ranks at or near the top in reliability and low cost to own compared to M-B ranking in the bottom half in both categories.
Th OP asked for advice, so I provided some from my perspective based on his information.
I hope that he enjoys his car and has a good relationship with it. But he needs to be prepared for the what if's of owning a ten year old M-B with over 80,000 miles on it.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

OK, you offered your advice and I offered mine. I disagree that every owner should not have a scan tool that allows them to at least identify a problem. Otherwise, why come here and ask how to fix something without really having all the facts and information available? Too many times I have seen posts where someone comes here yelling "HELP ME NOW!" and expects someone with woowoo remote viewing capability to read the mind of their car -- just take the car to the dealer or an indy and be done with it. But if they want help, then sometimes we need a little more information than "my lights don't work" or something like that. However, if your idea of a torx driver being a complex or special tool, then I totally understand your statements. And, yes, there are special tools for Mercedes, as well as other cars, that make doing a job easier. But, if you think Mercedes are more complex than Saab or Audi, then you haven't done enough work on either.

Lastly, there is a huge difference in the driving enjoyment from certain Mercedes than other cars. Of course, my cars are an SL-Class and a C-Class, mid to upper range Mercedes. The entry-level GLB250 I am currently driving as a loaner I probably would never buy, new or used. The Honda CR-V is far superior in my experience. Just what kind of new car can you get today for $12,000 or $13,000, or even twice that, that will come close to a Mercedes E-Class, even a 10 year old one?

My point in making recommendations with regard to getting a proper scan tool or engaging with BenzNinja is that if a new owner is going to come here for help, then they likely are prepared to do some work themselves and should have essential tools to work on 21st century cars.

kajtek1

Congratulations on new drive.
When I am usually seeking white cars, due to hot climate, the blue W212 is definitely unique car and being unique counts.
When lot of members here like to spend "quality time" with their heads under the hood, I bought my 2014 E250 Bluetec with over 130,000 miles on it.
The only problem after the purchase were Czech-made AMG rims, who had to be replaced. I check the car visually, did 0-60 test and kept on driving, till service reminder come up.
Drove it for 5 years doing nothing, beside fuel and oil and only last year decided to treat the car to new sway bar links (weak boots) and Motor Mounts.
Few driver seat stiches gave up and I already bought new cover for $40 on ebay, but it is still waiting its turn.
I think I might have to add some refrigerant this coming summer, but car still looks in showroom condition, delivers 30 mpg in the city, 40 mpg @ 80 mph and has potential for 60 mpg at lower speeds.
Enjoy