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having an issue with my W212 Sedan. The car has not been starting at all, as in when you turn the key to the ignition, nothing happens at all, not even a ticking sound.
All of the electronics turn on and I have checked the battery which is perfectly fine. I have changed the starter relay (green box) and all the neccesary fuses within the fuse box.
Not sure if I am missing any other potential fuses, or if it may be the ignition switch itself.
i do feel it’s the ignition switch but would appreciate some insight into whether this may be the issue.
Thank you!
I have changed the necessary fuses and the motor relay (green block), but still nothing
Yes, like Cali said, you need to see actual data using a good bi-directional scan tool, like "key position on" and "start enabled" or on when key is turned to start. If all good, a test light at starter, check starter main power, check the ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded but appear to be good, then test to see if PCM is sending voltage to the starter solenoid when key turned to start. If there is power when key in start position, the starter is at fault, if no power at solenoid when key in start position, the PCM is missing condition to allow starter to turn on or an open in the starter wire.
Yes, like Cali said, you need to see actual data using a good bi-directional scan tool, like "key position on" and "start enabled" or on when key is turned to start. If all good, a test light at starter, check starter main power, check the ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded but appear to be good, then test to see if PCM is sending voltage to the starter solenoid when key turned to start. If there is power when key in start position, the starter is at fault, if no power at solenoid when key in start position, the PCM is missing condition to allow starter to turn on or an open in the starter wire.
“Ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded…” Would be the first starter I have ever heard to have a ground cable.
There are only two cables connected to the starter/solenoid combination. Both positive charged. The main very thick starting amps providing directly from the battery and the small wire that triggers the start solenoid.
OP, you say you changed the start solenoid. The real start solenoid is built into the starter. Do yourself a favor. Go under the car with a small wire connected to the battery positive post and touch the small wire port on the start solenoid by the starter. If the starter engages the issue is with the electronics that should provide the start signal but if the started does not engage you simply have a starter/start solenoid problem. This can save you a lot of effort troubleshooting the issue.
“Ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded…” Would be the first starter I have ever heard to have a ground cable.
There are only two cables connected to the starter/solenoid combination. Both positive charged. The main very thick starting amps providing directly from the battery and the small wire that triggers the start solenoid.
OP, you say you changed the start solenoid. The real start solenoid is built into the starter. Do yourself a favor. Go under the car with a small wire connected to the battery positive post and touch the small wire port on the start solenoid by the starter. If the starter engages the issue is with the electronics that should provide the start signal but if the started does not engage you simply have a starter/start solenoid problem. This can save you a lot of effort troubleshooting the issue.
Arrie ...Arrie, I am so glad you thought that way...well sort of. This means you do not know there is 1 important ground cable, which is UN-DOCUMENTED in W212 wiring diagram or ground cable list.
This also means you can benefit from this knowledge.
Rickman did not say the ground cable is for the starter per se, he wrote : " check the ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded but appear to be good "
Well this un-documented ground cable I call W-TF is there for engine block and is basically 95% serving the starter and is very close to the starter.
You did not state you engine model, year of car, its mileage and some history of your ownership on it the last 10,000 miles or at least 18 months of ownership.
You see with W212 being cheaper by the day today as it can be as old as 2009 model year and could have gone thru a few ownership before it becomes yours.....
its history is very important to know.
Members here will assume your car has never been messed-up by previous owner and can not give you the best advice.
I am seeing more and more used W212 new owners coming to this forum and some of their troubles actually were related to what previous owners did.
Sometime bad modification for certain accessories and what not.
Arrie ...Arrie, I am so glad you thought that way...well sort of. This means you do not know there is 1 important ground cable, which is UN-DOCUMENTED in W212 wiring diagram or ground cable list.
This also means you can benefit from this knowledge.
Rickman did not say the ground cable is for the starter per se, he wrote : " check the ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded but appear to be good "
Well this un-documented ground cable I call W-TF is there for engine block and is basically 95% serving the starter and is very close to the starter.
Where the starter is located on one's W212 engine, that is where this W-TF ground cable would be connected as close as possible to the starter.
S-Prihadi,
”Check ground cable from starter to body” for me, and I believe for most everybody who knows what a car starter is, would mean to check a ground cable from the electric starter motor to car body. We all who have worked around starter motors know there is no such ground cable as the ground is served by the metal to metal connection between starter motor and engine block as these are bolted together.
A bit misleading statement I would say…
But I understand what you are saying as the engine block needs to be grounded well to be able to run components connected to the engine, like the starter. So he should say to check engine block ground cable to body instead.
But the problem with this ground would cause other issues with the numerous sensors etc. that I understood the OP does not have… As he says there is no sound of any kind from the starter the ground would need to be cut and this should cause bunch of other errors.
I think OP’s starter solenoid went out or the start signal wire broke/disconnected. That is where I would start hunting as if it is the simple issue of bad starter all other troubleshooting work is waste of time.
Well, Rick's description is actually a simple and clear information for someone not familiar with MB grounding ID, like the OP.
OP will try to find the starter and see that near it there is a big black cable leading to car metal body.
If I ask a 100 members here who owns a W212, to know from memory his W10, W11 and W16/5 ground location and the actual wires, less than 10% will even know those ground IDs.
You wrote : But the problem with this ground would cause other issues with the numerous sensors etc. that I understood the OP does not have Not necessary W-TF corossion will cause direct issues with sensors, depending on OP engine type.
Some engine like mine and M276, uses W11 and W16/5 for ECM and some sensor/device grounds.
Corroded/loose enough W-TF can't crank starter ....yes, but whacky sensors will depends on how bad is the corossion of W-TF ground wire/connector.
The basic check is Power (+) and ground (-) , not only the + ones.
Too often the negative/ground section is ignored.
Again depending on what year and what engine, the check for positive feed is not to be at the starter small and big wires only, it has to be more upstream one like the pyro-fuse section,
which can be at F32 prefuse box or battery positive.
That is why I asked OP, basic important information : engine model and year of car,
==========
Mani also wrote : I have changed the starter relay (green box) and all the neccesary fuses within the fuse box.
Not sure if I am missing any other potential fuses, or if it may be the ignition switch itself.
===========
Anytime a poster with issue like Mani has and does not state his engine model and model year, probably he does not understand there can be up to 5 fuses for the ECM alone and one of the 5,
its upstream is a dedicated fuse at F32 prefuse box , again depending on which engine model.
To include N73 iginition switch and tranny computer , more fuses to check.
He has yet to mention his fuses number which he checked and again I have to repeat, which engine model ? Year of car..?.. as wiring is a bit different for facelift model for Front & Rear SAM.
“Ground cable from starter to body as they are known to be corroded…” Would be the first starter I have ever heard to have a ground cable.
There are only two cables connected to the starter/solenoid combination. Both positive charged. The main very thick starting amps providing directly from the battery and the small wire that triggers the start solenoid.
OP, you say you changed the start solenoid. The real start solenoid is built into the starter. Do yourself a favor. Go under the car with a small wire connected to the battery positive post and touch the small wire port on the start solenoid by the starter. If the starter engages the issue is with the electronics that should provide the start signal but if the started does not engage you simply have a starter/start solenoid problem. This can save you a lot of effort troubleshooting the issue.
You obviously had a misspent youth similar to mine. The old hot wire routine. We just used a screwdriver to see if it would crank
You obviously had a misspent youth similar to mine. The old hot wire routine. We just used a screwdriver to see if it would crank
I don’t know if these are all the same but in mine the starter is in quite tight spot and trying to connect the battery positive thick cranking cable to the solenoid using something like a screw driver may cause some unwanted sparks. Also the rubber post cover needs to be removed.
I feel it is easier to run just a small wire from battery post to the solenoid.
I was just kidding around. I wasn't suggesting that one do that with a Mercedes. I was referring to like old Detroit iron where you could readily see the solenoid and starter wires under the hood and could easily reach in and jumper the ignition wires with a screwdriver between the main starter wire and the solenoid with a screwdriver.
Since MB ground location uses W designation, and this un-documented W?? is then I call W-TF as a joke,,,lol.
Item 320 if for typical W212 with M276 3.5NA engine https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/e...59/d04/54/030/
On my car it will be as per photo below :
From car under-body, it will go to engine block or tranny bell housing, closest to starter motor.
In a W204, with M271.860 engine. The new clean black wire is my add ON, as back up.
If item 100 which is main negative post with Hyundai battery sensor and its end goes to the suspension strut, that is W10 and is the very 1st negative cable of the car from the battery.
or most upstream. W10 is what 99% of W212 owners would know.
having an issue with my W212 Sedan. The car has not been starting at all, as in when you turn the key to the ignition, nothing happens at all, not even a ticking sound.
All of the electronics turn on and I have checked the battery which is perfectly fine. I have changed the starter relay (green box) and all the neccesary fuses within the fuse box.
Not sure if I am missing any other potential fuses, or if it may be the ignition switch itself.
i do feel it’s the ignition switch but would appreciate some insight into whether this may be the issue.
Thank you!
I have changed the necessary fuses and the motor relay (green block), but still nothing
Nevermind what everyone is saying about the ground cable. You said that you are getting no sound when you insert the key. Are you hearing the Steering column unlock? Are you getting a message on the dash to "dont forget your key" or anything of this nature? It could just be a bad starter however it is also likely you have and issue with the EIS. The vehicle also will not start if there is and issue with the ESL (Steering lock).
12-27-2023 | 12:04 PM
