S-Prihadi

The other bank VVT ( cam actuator ) you did not replaced now wants some love.
Which actual VVT was it replaced 4K miles ago ? Intake or Exhaust and which Bank ?

Rickman30

I my caee, S-Prihadi, the one the stealership replaced is the one that continued to occasionally rattle.

However, since changing my driving habits, it has yet to rattle in four months. Still has the chain noise from tensioner pumping up upon cold start, but no VVT rattle, not even after sitting for a week as it did before.

I am going to remove tensioner to inspect for check valve since my engine number is in the TSB "Check for oil check valve in head" category. If it's there or not, I will either install, or replace with a new check valve and monitor results.

I still attribute to the other engine flaw not discussed, where no check valve was installed in oil filter housing forcing oil pump to refill housing every cold start delaying oil pressure and oil volume to VVT and tensioners for a few seconds causing noise. As American, asian, and Japanese cars, suffer the same, however some have a tensioner with a ratcheting devise incorporated into the tensioner to maintain pressure on chain till oil pressure takes over. Listening MB?
.

CaliBenzDriver

Rick, I've got two check valves for you
I could not remove my factory valves from my 2013 engine because of the way these are designed.

The factory valve has the shoulder all the way inside such that when you thread puller into the valve, it splits valves two pieces.
From that point you're left drilling remaining pieces jammed into engine head.
Some of these check-valves have their flange on the outside and the thread on the inside so these can be pulled.


> AIR FILTER....
You're right about the amazin' oil filter draining dry
I wonder how the air pocket is removed from the filter ??
The only place air can go out is... into the oil flow. Airated foamy oil is the worst combination for any hydraulics relying on incompressible liquid. Our tensioners feature an tiny drilled hole to bleed air out of each tensioners or stored oil when rubber shaft guide is burnt.

There is something to be done right there such as an automatic air bleeder valve if it doesn't affect overall reliability.
Switch to an aluminum filter cap for machining kludge bleeder ?

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

The above video show how to install the check valve. But once installed, not sure how to remove it since it is pressed into the head.

Ther may be a good reason for this. If the tensioner ratcheted tight, there would need to be some sort of release in order to remove it, I would think.

Westlotorn

Rickman is correct, some engines use both a ratcheting device and oil pressure to tension the timing chain. There is a release when you need to install new parts, I have done it but do not remember exactly how. That type never bleeds off tension. My Mercedes oil anti drain back valves were threaded internally so you could screw a bolt into the drain back valve and pull it out. Not sure how others are built but the Mercedes part had this option. I actually used these threads and a bolt to tap the anti drain back valve into place. Does not take much to get them to go in.

The video above does a nice job showing how to remove and replace the tensioner. Does not show how to fix the rattle or check for cam adjuster failures. The video does offer many good tips for going in and removing/replacing the covers.

pierrejoliat

WalMart, delivered today

pierrejoliat

Most brands are now AP SP, which is similar to 229.5

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure that is true. 229.5 pre-existed API SP by quite some time.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Is this what you are referring to?

pierrejoliat

Then one could read both specifications, I believe it's actually closer to 229.6

CaliBenzDriver

"high mileage" in part means rubber seal swelling additives

Pierre pls help up locate a fav oil. I looked around Walmart and was beginning to entertain using Rotella T6 diesel oils (heavy ZDDP cat clogger?)...

pierrejoliat

Maybe that's why my car has 97k miles and no leaks? I have always thought Amsoil was the most attentive to quality and had great products, but I also think Shell, Liquid Moly, Motul and yes, Mobil One make good oils also, Others are acceptable at less than 10,000 mile intervals for change like Quaker State, Castrol, Pennzoil,Etc. If it meets current API spec NP, it's all pretty close in formulation, yes, some companies get there a little differently.

W205C43PFL

Ya I wouldn't recommend those oils at all. It is like stop leak products that swells gaskets and orings so it stops leaking until it shrinks again and the leak gets worse.

The specific thing that we don't want is something called Petroleum Petroleum distillate according to Alex from LegitStreetCars.

W205C43PFL

Maybe the "high mileage" oil you used didn't have bad additives and is actually good but I would just recommend doing more frequent oil changes and use regular mileage oils (but that is just me that's all : )

pierrejoliat

I change the oil every 5k miles, and as always, you are entitled to your opinion

W205C43PFL

Yes it is just my opinion, that's all : )

Happy motoring

pierrejoliat

Ok, I'll watch for the shrinking and worse leakage and report back, since I have none, it may be awhile

pierrejoliat

https://360.lubrizol.com/2020/Understanding-the-Daimler-MB-229,-d-,52-Specification

Westlotorn

In My wifes BMW X5 4.8L V8 at 120000 miles it would not pass smog, part of the smog test involves watching the exhaust. The smog tech saw an occasional puff of blue smoke meaning it was buring a little oil. I do mean a little. I was usually 1/2 quart low at my 5,000 mile oil change. I swapped that engine to the High Mileage blend and it passed smog clean at 120000 miles and again at 132,000 miles so in that engine I believe it tightened the valve stem seals just enough to stop the smoke and pass smog. Much cheaper and easier than a Valve job for new valve stem seals.

The Syntheic Oils offer better high temperature protection. This can save your bacon in an extreme situation, maybe climbing a very long hill where the engine works very hard and then you come to a stop and idle right after while your pistons are still very hot from the climb, the very hot pistons now at idle can sometimes cook oil to the piston and cooked oil does not lubricate. Synthetic can reduce this problem. Or you can slip the car in neutral while stopped and rev it to 2,000 RPM to splash more oil on the pistons and cool them down quickly. Synthetics do offer more protection and they flow differently. When Synthetics first came out racers started using it right away and we saw many crankshaft and rod bearings failing. Only change was the oil. The Race engine that worked great with .003 clearance using petroleum would fail using synthetics because the synthetic hot would bleed more oil off or spill more because if flowed better. Builders quickly started asking customers what type oil they planned to run to avoid this. Synthetic oil engines used a max clearance on bearings of .0025 and the problems stopped. ( personally I use .002 rods and mains). Toyota on new engines at the factory goes as tight as .0015 but it takes more work assembling this tight to make sure they will work. Toyota claims this reduces NVH, Noise Vibration and Harmonics. They started this process around the year 2000.

Blends are a tweaner, lots of additives to help petroleum work more like a synthetic.

Diesel Oils, 15-40W, used by many classic car owners in 1960’s type engines that need the extra protection of ZDDP for the camshafts. I use it also in these applications and for my boat. Old flat tappet cams need this protection and all new cars have roller camshafts so that protection was dropped from most oils but diesel oil still has it and it is cheap to buy.

For this E350 with the rattle I will experiment with a thicker oil, still a synthetic and see how it goes, I will report back. It might quiet it right down. I am noit worried about the catalytic converter because my engine does not use oil at this time. Oil level stays the same between changes so no leaks and no burning at 93000 miles. If you are not burning oil you do not risk the cat damage.

pierrejoliat

Yes, they sell others as well,

Rickman30

The air is forced out though the bearings, none of the internal bearings are sealed, so oil pressure reaches bearings and flows out the sides of that bearing giving a continuous flow of freshly filtered oil. The problem is on startup, while the oil film remains on bearings, there is no flow on startup, what with filling from the pump to the oil filter and chain tensioners and the VVT with oil after draining down.

I believe, since the oil goes to the VVT first, when oil is draining back to the sump, a suction occurs pulling oil out of VVT and tensioners without check valves.

I don't believe we have dry bearings on startup save the ones where an untrained mechanic touches bearing surfaces with their bare finger. It's been proven that the oil in your skin, being a different chemical makeup from engine oil, acts as a bearer preventing engine oil from adhering to the bearing surface with human oil on it. like two magnets opposing. Why I cringe at most engine rebuild videos. I see premature failure before it's put together. And also when people use Plasigauge with oil on the bearings and put oil or fluid under bearings. All huge no no's.

The only way oil can be aerated is if air is sucked in before the oil pump but after the pickup point in the sump, i.e. pickup tube seal.

Best way is a device like the one made for the 3.6l Pentastar V6, replacing oil filter and oil filter cap with a sealed device with an internal check valve, and a relocated filter after check valve. This would save the VVT lock pins and lock plate, remove the need for check valves in the head although the extra protection wouldn't hurt. When someone makes that, and revise oil change intervals to a reasonable limit say 5k miles, we'd save thousands per engine in repairs, and we'd see much longer engine life, probably 400k miles before internal work was ever needed.

But that's just my opinion...

Westlotorn

I was at the local Wallmart yesterday, they had the Mobile 1 full synthetic 20-50 on sale at $23 for 5 quarts! I bought 2 and will install when I get time. I can always back down to a 10W later and see if it works but if 20-50 does not work I am looking at a mechanical repair. Fingers crossed.

S-Prihadi

The MB oil list BEVO is always evolving and updated. Now is SP rated only being approved for 299.5 when I check last week for Motul oils.
I posted in the OIL SOLENOID page W212 AMG post 1,799 https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post8984332





Becareful when looking at an oil brand datasheet, some have lost Mb229.5 approval when that oil was still SN rated but their data sheet still shows 229.5 approval, while MB BEVO have removed it.

Example : MB on 11th June 2024 oil list , DID NOT approve Motul X-Cess 5W40 if gen-1, but approved if the Gen-2 version. OW40


Gen-1 SN rated only.




Gen-2

CaliBenzDriver

Two thumb's up for MOTUL Excess2 5w40 road testing.
Great oil even after 4700.Mi on MOD-2.1

An excellent oil to enjoy viscosity journey MOD-2.x oil for about 2000.Mi courtesy of Juan's personal advice who introduced me to effective oil cooling.
@juanmor40

​​​​​​

Rickman30

Motul is nest on my testing list. Molygen is good, but it doesn't maintain the 40 weight very well, oil analysis testing shows it's in the 5w-30 realm after just 2000 miles. Very disappointing as the wear looks phenomenal at 5k. oh well, NEXT...