jetblk328i

Hi everyone,

New to the W213 forum but not new to MB, I previously had an old, first gen ML, and a W221 S class. I took a little break and went over to BMW and most recently Audi and purchased a 2018 S4. While I like the car and its power, I do find myself missing the more comfortable seats and suspension, as well as an overall higher height for the vehicle given I'm 6' 2" and need to slouch a decent bit to get in. It is also a bit small for back seats and I don't find myself using the extra performance. I've been considering a 2018 CPO Loaner E300 that my dealer has in stock as it is almost exactly what I'm looking for. It is black on nut brown MB Tex with natural brown inlays, P2 w/ digital display, warmth and comfort package, pano roof, and some other small options for an MSRP of $66,830. It currently has 9,100 miles and they are currently offering it to me for $57,000. I took a test drive an enjoyed it overall but had a few questions I was hoping you guys might be able to provide insight on.

1. What do you think of the price? They've come down from a listing price of nearly $59,000 and are giving me decent value on my trade (not great, but fair) but I still think it is a bit high for a car with 9,100 miles. Based on our negotiations so far, it doesn't seem like they are willing to come down much more, but I'm at a point where I am comfortable giving them an offer and walking out.

2. Since the car was a prior loaner, they are offering 1.99% financing for up to 72mo for this month. Does anyone know if this may get extended into next month?

3. How are 2018s in terms of reliability? It looks like the car was built during 10/17, and while I did some searching and read some posts regarding issues members were having, it seemed to mostly be 2016/early 2017 builds.

4. Aside from the steering wheel, burl walnut center console, and new packaging strategy, is there anything new on the 2019s? I sat in one while I was there and wasn't a huge fan of the new steering wheel as the buttons were more flimsy than what I preferred and were not metal (despite having that silver look).

5. They are offering extended warranty on it for up to 2 years at $2,500. Having had extended warranty on my W221 which easily paid for itself, I am curious but I suspect the E should be a bit more reliable/less expensive to repair given it does not have airmatic and some of the other more complex systems in the S. Do you think the extended warranty is worth it?

6. I inquired about prepaid service as well and my salesman suggested that he never recommends it as it doesn't end up being a good deal. I was pretty surprised as I figured he'd be interested in up-selling and why would MB offer it if there are no savings?

7. Are there any lookouts/things to watch for with the W213 in particular while shopping?

8. How's the new 4Matic perform in snow? My old ML was great and the S class didn't see any so I haven't had a chance to try out the new 4Matic system.

We'll see how this all unfolds, I'm not in a huge hurry to sell the S4 as it is still an enjoyable car, and winter is coming. However, I do think the E300 suits what I'm looking for better than the S4.

Thanks in advance!

cetialpha5

Well you can usually negotiate anywhere from 5-12% off MSRP when buying new so it's really only a few thousand off a new one plus it already has 9k which drops it a lot. A few thousand off doesn't really seem to be worth it. You should price a new one with the P3 package.

The 2018's are pretty much too new to really tell, but it's a 2nd year model, the 2017 was the first year of the w213 and the 2016 was the last year of the W212. The 2016 models were the E350 which had the 302 hp direct injection engine. The 2017+ E300 is just the 240hp 4 cylinder turbo. I don't think there's too many major items in the 2019, it's usually about 4 years til there's some kind of facelift or some major changes to engines/options.

As for CPO, it comes with one year and you can buy up to 2 extra years years of CPO. You can check the extended warranty subforum and see what other vendors are selling them for, some offer some pretty good discount as some just mark it up $100 over their invoice whereas list there's several hundred if not a thousand plus in profit in the list price of the warranty. The prepaid service is only good when you're at a point where it needs spark plugs or transmission fluid changes. The early service at 10k or 20k isn't much. Not sure when you'd need transmission or spark plug changes. I would think on the 4 cylinder it'd be simple to do the plugs as opposed to the 6 cylinder which is a bit more complex. That may be later in the 60-80k range so it might be worth while later.

Anyway, the CPO 2016's are in the 31-40k range so at $57k, you've got some pretty good depreciation coming in the next 2 years. Also the CPO 2018's start at 50k and do go up to 57k+ but you might be able to find a CPO model that wasn't a loaner. You can go on MB's website and search your local CPO inventory.

jetblk328i

Thanks! This is very helpful, I agree that at the pricing, it is not a great deal. I'm planning to give them an offer and walk out in the next couple of days.

I will go browse the extended warranty subform, I get the sense that the quote I'm getting may be marked up a bit!

jetblk328i

Well it looks like I can definitely get a better deal on the CPO warranty elsewhere. Any other thoughts on the price of the car? I was thinking of offering $55,000 based on what I've seen within 200 miles with similar content. It looks like the average is around $56,000 but most have less miles.

cetialpha5

I'm not sure why you're chasing what's basically a former rental. Those should be a few thousand below market not a few thousand above. Even at 55k that might be too rich. You should try pricing out a new one and see what kind of discounts they have.

superangrypenguin

7% margin is typical on new cars in MB, and other premium brands

jetblk328i

Primarily 2 main reasons:

1. This has the exact color combo I'm looking for, packages are good too, the only thing to make it better would have been P3, but I can live without that.
2. The CPO financing rates are much better than new, which does add up to extra savings in financing costs

On a 2019, assuming the same MSRP (which is unlikely given the 2019 package layout) of $66,830 and I get ~8% off that would take me to $61.5k...I think if you were to factor in $0.50 a mile discount for existing miles, that'd bring you to $56.8k, which would be a 15% discount. I don't think I'd be able to get 12% on a 2019 but if people have gotten it, I'd love to hear how!

ua549

There is a world of difference between a used rental car and a new car. Have you looked for a new 2018 model? They are starting to be clearance priced.

cetialpha5

I think you're shopping apples to oranges, should be shopping new 2018. I've heard of discounts as high as 12% for left overs in previous years but maybe not now. The 2019's are too new to get a big discount and if you're set on a color, option package, then there probably aren't too many 2018's new left that meet what you're looking for. New cars suffer massive depreciation in the first year or two. Just doesn't seem like that's there especially when it's a rental which usually takes more of a hit. Residuals on a 3 year lease are in the 58-60% so you lose about 40% in the first 3 years. If you took off 8%, that's still 11-12% a year and that used price doesn't seem to reflect that. Probably higher as the first year depreciation should be higher than the 3rd year. Residuals also tend to be artificially high so the actual losses in 3 years are greater.

jetblk328i

Definitely agreed on the used v. new comparison. I have tried searching for some leftover 2018s but most don't have the color/options I'm looking for unfortunately and I think for the most part 2019s are out of the question for now.

I'm going to continue looking for 2018s on a wider search radius and see if the dealer will be willing to trade/pull one over from another's inventory.

mobster600

JTK44

Just my $.02:

I am ordering a 2019 E450 with the equipment I want. I am getting over 10% off of MSRP - and that is for a BRAND NEW 2019!

So my gut tells me that you should be able to do better on a NEW 2018 - better than 10% off and certainly much, much better on a used 2018.

I would expect at least 20% to 25% off on used 1 year old car (the CPO is a used one year old car) otherwise I would buy a new one year old car (2018) and expect 15% off of MSRP.

Of course I live on Long Island where there are 25 MB dealers all within 50 miles competing for my business so the cars are very, very aggressively priced - plus MB competes with both BMW and Audi all to the buyer's advantage.

Cao Black

My $.02 also. I have had zero problems with my 2018 (fingers crossed). Sticker was $66K plus special wheels (dealer installed), bought for $59K in early Dec 2017 (not financed and not my first deal with sales guy). End of model year deals should be even better than that IMO, and CPO deals should be better still. Others certainly have made equally good or better deals. My point is, the price of the car you are considering seems a little high to me. On the other hand, you should buy what appeals to you. You mentioned the color combination, for example. Additionally, full digital dash displays are not easy to find on unsold 2018 vehicles unless they are P3. Even early 2019 E sedans (MB no longer uses the P1, P2, P3 distinctions) are showing up on dealer lots with analog speedo display. Previously, I bought a 2010 E350 P2 early lease turn-in with only 8900 miles. It was a great car, so I wouldn't be concerned with the "used car" label IF the deal is right. Good luck with whatever you decide.

bob2011

I know you didn't ask, but I'd personally stay away from previous rentals. However if you are adamant on this car, I'm sure you can get a bit more leeway on the price.