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We used to own an E320 4matic wagon (2002). LOVED that car. Drove it 265k before replacing it.
I am now widowed (yeah that sucks at 59) and a little concerned about buying a used car without dh to help troubleshoot or deal with issues as they arise. Our old MB wagon was pretty trouble free...
I am reading some reliability issues with MB wagons in the years I am looking in....I was looking for a 2012 to a 2016 (prefer a 2016 because it SOUNDS like I may be able to get it to interface with android car play)...But recently stumbled across the class action law suit about rear frame rust etc. My son is trying to disuade me from buying one because they are less reliable than they used to be.
THOUGHTS?
a) I KNOW I am looking at a used car. Not interested in depreciation of new (and not in budget)..recognize it will likely need work sooner than a new car...but LOVED the feel of my mb wagon, handling, quiet ride etc. and prefer that to a newer car in budget that doesn't ride/feel like an MB.
b) I do have the name of an indy mechanic sort of near to me, who came highly recommended...(so at least there is someone to work on it)
c) I don't want to deal with a series of nightmares...I've literally had enough surprises for one year (sudden loss of Mom to Covid, Dog and Spouse to heart attack all within 3 months of each other).
Any recommendations of years to avoid?
How rampant is the rust issue? Avoid rust belt state history of the car? Is that enough? ALSO- HOW do I tell a sport apart from a luxury in photos? (Many of the ads are not differentiating!) I am guessing (based on other peoples comments) I would not like the handling of the sport version. I live near the Chesapeake Bay...fairly rural area and lots of potholes and back roads. Hear that the luxury trim suspension is a smoother ride...
How much of a big deal is the carplay thing? I don't have a car with that now, but my son and brother are both telling me I'd be buying a dinasaur without one these days (lol).
THanks for ANY help you can provide.
Cyndi
Central Virginia
Several sources you may wish to explore: Car Gurus and AutoTrader are both online 'for sale' sites, with good information. We have had great luck with the Mercedes Benz CPO purchases (our last four MB came via CPO). Here is the link to the MB CPO website, just plug in your zip code and you can see cars near you. We have the AMG Sport package on our W213, a 2019 model. Also have 18" wheels & tires, and the ride is quite nice. Enjoy your quest and hopefully you will find what you are looking for, we are on our third E class wagon, nothing like them; great utility, roomy, stylish and providing us with 32 mpg at 80 mph. A most competent vehicle.
The subframe rusting is covered by a 20 year extended warranty/no mileage limit so no worries there. And yeah, if you have your pick, go with the 2016 for Android Auto/Apple Carplay. You can use a vin decoder to see if it mentions a sport package or not. In general the W212 is more reliable than the W211, but it still has some issues like the faded wood and ripped seat, but those are less likely by 2016. If you jump up to a 2017+, you end up with an E400 as the E300 was just a 4 cylinder in a sedan and the E400 was a 6 cylinder. They're probably going to be more than the E350 wagon in 2016 because that had the 302hp engine and the E300 in 2017 was just a 241hp engine so I guess that was probably too weak to go into a station wagon. Also the luxury package has the regular MB grill with the hood star. The sports package has a flat badge instead of the hood star and in the center of the grill you get the round MB logo.
You should go check this one out, maybe not too far from you and somewhat nicely loaded. Real leather, luxury package, driver assistance package, lighting package, keyless go, parktronic, etc. No pano roof, but some don't like it.
First I’d like to say I’m sorry to hear about everything you’ve gone through recently. That sounds so tough and it’s something I know I would not have the strength to go through by myself.
To answer your question, I recommend the W212. I understand that your son is trying to make you look the other way, but honestly it is my opinion that the W212 was the last true Mercedes. It is overbuilt, solid, reliable, and only has tech where it is needed to make life easier and not more difficult. The 3.5 is NA so no need to worry about turbos and they don’t really have any carbon built up issues at all. It’s a very stout motor. I actually just got a letter in the mail from MB about the subframe issue. They’ve given cars an extended warranty for everything related to the lawsuit, so nothing to worry about there. It’s rather funny I got the letter as I leased my W212 and turned it in many many years ago, so it was a bit strange. I miss that car a lot. I really wish I bought it from the dealer. It was really an amazing car that I miss losing 5 years later. I would not be too worried about reliability especially considering your 2002 was from a time when MB was known for poor quality and poor reliability but it seems to have treated you well. Mine was not a wagon but a sedan, but still for the most part everything applies. Mine was a 2014 E350 4Matic, by lease end it had just under 30k miles so I can’t speak from my own personal experience on reliability, but during my time it was flawless. I did own a C class from the same generation of cars that I drove through hell and back and traded it in with “only” 120k miles. It was solid and I actually sold it when it had its first ever issue. Another car I regret letting go. There are also a couple threads highlighting the high mileage w212 heroes on the w212 section, and for the most part they seem to get up there in miles trouble free. Like someone else mentioned, the biggest reliability issues are cosmetic like wood fading and ripped seats. To that I say just take care of your car, buy a sun shade, garage when possible and use high quality products when cleaning the interior.
Mine was a sport packaged car, you can see that most easily by the more agressive front bumper, two slated grille and big logo. The luxury styles have the more traditional looking front end that resembles the S class. On the inside sport cars get white gauges and luxury cars are black. When I got mine, it was my understanding from the dealer that 4Matic equipped cars did not get the stiffer sport suspension. I did test drive both the 2WD and 4Matic to confirm and mine did ride smoother but the 2WD was still way more cushy than my super stiff sport suspension C class. 4WD was a must for me for ski trips, and actually found it to be a little floaty for my liking, but I do prefer sportier cars so…
in terms of apple carplay, if you’ve never experienced it then you probably won’t care. I wouldn’t buy a new car without it, but that’s only for a convenience factor when I have friends and family in my car. It’s a great system but not an end all if I’m being honest. It is super simple to add in the W212 if you’re interested, there’s plenty of threads on the w212 section about it.
@cetialpha5 THank you so much for all the helpful links!
I have been eyeing that white wagon in nova (northern Virginia) for a bit! Was hoping for something with a few lower miles...But will probably go and look at it anyway!
The LINKS were super helpful, especially the decoder which tells me the build! There was mention of the command version (COMAND APS NTG5/NTG5.5) in the forum chats about enabling carplay.
THank you so very much
@AzurSL Thank you for your kind words. I don't think I thought I could have handled anything like this but you handle what your handed...Really my faith has keep me standing through this rough year. Don't know what I would do if I didn't have that. It's been a rough year.
The location of your car looks like where my dh would have loved to be. He was an avid skier. Skied the best gs race of his life in February before he died. He was so stoked. He skied so well. That E320 4matic we had, we owned in upstate ny. It did GREAT in the snow (with 4 snows on it...). In and out of snow storms, lake effect white outs you name it. GREAT car. Thanks for your advice!
@CyndiV Have you considered the E450 All Terrain Wagon? I would get the 2022. I had a 2013 Subaru Crosstrek with the Manual Transmission. But turned in lease when retired from off road Missile Range Contractor Duty. Almost bought the last year Buick TourX new for $28K (that was built in Germany as an Opel) because missed the flexibility and comfort of a Wagon but instead bought the wife a 2020 CRV Hybrid at Athens GA residence since she desired to sit higher off the ground. Before Honda purchase placed order for AMG E63s Wagon secretly because I really wanted that TourX...it finally arrived at ATL NE dealership 15-months later after my 61st Birthday and the family was shocked. Later that year bought Son his first car a 2021 Kia Soul after gifting our Daughter MIT '21 wife's old 2019 Buick Encore that she needed for her DoD job in Maryland. Daughter just moved to Reston, Virginia for her new Microsoft Gig this week.
Learned to drive in Winter Weather while attended the University of Rochester and just spent over $2K putting 3 season Vredstein new tires on the Wife's AWD CRV Hybrid and Daughter's Encore since prefer to drive I-81 to I-66 on way to DMV or to 287 when visiting siblings in Westchester and Long Island around Thanksgiving and Christmas. Avoid I-95 and incessant Tolls at all costs. If I only bought that $28K German TourX...would have saved over $150K but family would have been less mobile and unhappy.
Now since MB is bringing back the E450 All Terrain for 2024 I might purchase one in 2026 when Son graduates from Georgia Tech and leave it in on East Coast probably in Reston as my last Internal Combustion Engine purchase. Will keep AMG E63s Wagon in New Mexico.
Good Luck on your search for a W212 or W213 Wagon...you have options!
I have been eyeing that white wagon in nova (northern Virginia) for a bit! Was hoping for something with a few lower miles...But will probably go and look at it anyway!
The LINKS were super helpful, especially the decoder which tells me the build! There was mention of the command version ([color=#000000]COMAND APS NTG5/NTG5.5) in the forum chats about enabling carplay.
THank you so very much
The other nice thing with Cargurus is that it mentions how many days the car has been listed. With a well loaded car like that and reading the reviews, there's a good chance that the car is already gone and they're just keeping it up there for advertising purposes so don't go too far out of your way to see it and expect that there's some bait and switch if it's not there. Cars that are pretty well loaded don't stick around too long, if it's only been listed for a week or two, you have a shot at it. Or use it every few days and be ready to jump on something when it comes up. I would at least go check out a few so you know what you're getting into in advance so when the right one with the right options pops up, you can just jump on it. Both my cars are loaded and the first I got after it was listed 3 days and the other one after a day.
Originally Posted by Drone_S213
Have you considered the E450 All Terrain Wagon? I would get the 2022.
I'm going to guess that if we're talking about a 26.5k car, a 70-80k car might be a bit too much. Also I think it was new for 2021, why the 2022?
The W213 might be only a few years newer than the W212 but the interior of the W212 looks like it is 10 or 15 years older than the W213. The 6 turbo is so much quicker than the non-turbo in the W212 and to top it off, the W213 6 turbo is more powerful and yet gets better gas mileage than the W212.
The W213 might be only a few years newer than the W212 but the interior of the W212 looks like it is 10 or 15 years older than the W213. The 6 turbo is so much quicker than the non-turbo in the W212 and to top it off, the W213 6 turbo is more powerful and yet gets better gas mileage than the W212.
Newer is always more expensive and a turbo is always faster than a non turbo and gets better gas mileage. Although when a turbo fails, it tends to be sudden and catastrophic over a non turbo engine. But turbos have gotten better and more reliable of late so less likely that will happen but it's still out there as a consideration. But you can't really get away with a car that's not a turbo, even the regular sedans have a 4 cylinder turbo. It's all about gas mileage, nobody really wanted a turbo but higher gas mileage requirements forced it.
If it is the 2021+ E450 with the mild-hybrid system (which I personally have), I’d always try to do 2022 and beyond, where the cars were flawless. Seems like the early 2021 versions had several teething issues stemming from the Electric side of the hybrid, where people were left stranded and the cars had to be towed away……I suspect that was related to the E450s of that period, encountering Covid related supply issues for key components.
So I personally would lean to the late-model-year delivered 2021 E450s, or even better, the 2022/2023, for the E450…..or go for the prior 2020 version (pre-hybrid drivetrain).
It's all about gas mileage, nobody really wanted a turbo but higher gas mileage requirements forced it.
I don’t think the turbo helps with gas mileage at all, from my personal experience. The force-feeding from the turbo, just adds virtual displacement, enabling more output from the same overall displacement.
The move to turbos were probably triggered by engine displacement based taxation on the cars, in some foreign jurisdictions, with the turboed cars having less physical engine displacement, vs a larger NA engine that develops the same power/torque.
Even the move from Mercedes, into an inline-6 vs the prior V6, was to enable production on the same assembly line as the Inline-4 engines (Inline-4 being Inline-6 with 2 end cylinders missing). The Inline-6 of course has many benefits over the more common V6, but certainly introduces packaging issues via-a-vis the more compact V6.
Turbo engines are also higher in torque output among other benefits. The Germans have been making turbo engines for a long time and have gotten quite good at it. The turbo is still another point of unreliability but it has improved in reliability in recent years. The risk reward of turbo is on the positive side. Turbo lags are almost non-existing now and the gas mileage on the W213 is a modern day miracle in engineering. The only thing I like better in the W212 was the tank like feel when one close the door but by no means is the W213 lacking in build quality. With that said, I believe the 2017 E400 wagon will be out of the price range of the OP since it will be a big jump in price from the 2016 to the 2017.
My condolences on your loss. Time is your only friend. God rest your wife
I think you owe it to yourself to buy the best possible car. Next year the 214s will come out and the 213s will drop in price
consider a 213 wagon with a 4 or 5 year payment plan. I suggest you get the latest and greatest tech. I want from a 2015 S class to a 2021 e class and the tech was much better IMO.
the good news is that wagon owners tend to be easy on the car. A hot dog driver won’t buy a wagon
car play is a big deal if you drive in traffic. I use Waze when I drive and I love it
the bad news is there were not many wagons made
do not buy a cat without driving it
i have acoustic package and I like it. I like heads up display.
look for a car in Florida Texas or a state with no winter. Unless the car has low mileage
Also look in Canada. I think you can import and the dollar is strong now
For your item (c)… no surprises. I would stay away from the 48v hybrid 2021+ All Terrain models. I don’t think they’ve worked out the bugs with the hybrid system. A 2020 is the latest I’d recommend. Failures and surprises are rare but I’d skip them.
HUD is nice to have and Apple Car Play also. I like the adaptive cruise - look for three cameras at the top of the windshield if you’re interested.
I just sold a 2019 E450 wagon (beautiful car), it had the AMG package and it had some exhaust rumble and going up and down mountains it was noticeable. Guessing a Luxury version would be quieter. Maybe others can comment. I got about 28mpg going cross country at a decent pace.
You’ve probably figured this out by now, easiest way to tell from pics is the the front bumper and wheels.
For your item (c)… no surprises. I would stay away from the 48v hybrid 2021+ All Terrain models. I don’t think they’ve worked out the bugs with the hybrid system. A 2020 is the latest I’d recommend. Failures and surprises are rare but I’d skip them.
HUD is nice to have and Apple Car Play also. I like the adaptive cruise - look for three cameras at the top of the windshield if you’re interested.
I just sold a 2019 E450 wagon (beautiful car), it had the AMG package and it had some exhaust rumble and going up and down mountains it was noticeable. Guessing a Luxury version would be quieter. Maybe others can comment. I got about 28mpg going cross country at a decent pace.
I think the first batch of them were probably either bad batteries or bad software and I think they've fixed them by now so I wouldn't worry about 2021+. Also while MB has had distronics/driver assistance since 2003 on the E class, it keeps getting better every few years, the face lifted 2021+ is even more updated than the previous generation. Regardless, the 2021+ models aren't that cheap yet so it sounds like they're out of her budget anyway.
^^^
OP lives in NOVA believe she can afford a W213 but is wise with her money.
Me however spent nearly $200K on automobiles since 2019. Glad son got rejected from Columbia University last year. Made Dean's List at Kennesaw State University and will now transfer to GT. Can afford an All Terrain in 2026 with spare change...lol
@CyndiV make sure to use a VIN decoder. It can get tricky to figure out what the car in question has. Case in point, ours:
2011, AMG appearance package, but the lowered (NOT sport) suspension, but has the 18's. Has the hood ornament + 3bar grill (which may have been the "sport" look pre-facelift, and IMO, is the classic Mercedes look). Lots of other special-order type options.
If I had it to do again, I'd think about getting a 2012 because it has the newer DI motor but I don't care for facelift styling. If I went facelift (2013-2016), I'd definitely go "luxury" since I like the traditional appearance, and then you'd also have tires that are more forgiving. I have replaced a LOT of tires on this car.
They are great cars if you work on it yourself or have a good indy mechanic. Very expensive otherwise. Ours was very high mileage, but I planned on replacing a lot of things, and that's served us well. Good luck!
Been all over the place in my thinking. Was looking exclusively at 2016s and some 2017s for a bit, in hopes of getting the apple car play and updated interface but pricing is still too high for my budget. They're really all over 35k++ (and those that CLAIM to be less than that, when you read the fine print, have like $2k in dealer markups that aren't included in their listing price. Out the door I'd be closer to 40 and that is just too much for me.)
Recently discovered that I can purchase a module to upgrade any of the Command center console units with an aux to create a new interface instance to an andriod/apple car play type interface, while still being able to leverage OEM function and aesthetics. There are youtubes showing this install with new wiring harness and additional module. (I think much credit goes to this forum too!)
VERY few W212 wagons in the years I am looking for available that are not sport (I am with you, @Luddyludwick , I do not want to be replacing tires all the time and live in a rural area where the roads are less frequently maintained)...and with lower miles. I'd like to buy below 75k.
Needle in a haystack.
My criteria more or less:
2013-2016 (the newer the better, I think)
70k miles or less, prefer closer to 50K (just missed one in Charlottesville va , but it was a sport trim UGH)
Luxury trim package
Premium 1 package (heated seats, better sound)
no prior accidents
NOT a snowbelt car (NY, NJ, CT, ME, NH, VT, PA) because of corroding brake lines and issues with frame rust
prefer less than 3 prior owners but....
No red flags on carfax (multiple tire changes, multiple battery changes, electronic serving/checking)
Less than 30K
I think I am looking for a needle in a haystack lol.
If I get an older one (ie 2013 which may be thousands less than a 2016 or 2015) I can always pay to have the aftermarket console update installed so I can get apple carplay etc.
Just my thoughts today...
Have a buddy checking manheim auctions for me as well as all the retail outlets...just not much out there right now. One wagon right now, 2017 with 33k miles and wants 39k at auction...
I will be patient and keep looking. I am really determined to get my MB wagon!
The wagons hold value really well, so I wouldn't worry a ton about age *as a number*.
For whatever reason AutoTrader has gotten worse for me the last year. I use CarGurus and (I promise this isn't an ad for Hoovie's Garage) AutoTempest.
Ours is an Illinois car (during lease) that was sold to someone who brought it to Alabama. No subframe or other rust so far, so I'm with you on the Southern car thing. Good luck!
05-04-2023 | 04:02 PM
