Cigarette lighter question
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2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
That seems to be talking about the opposite of what this thread is about. The OP is not trying to charge a battery by using the USB port as the power source, but rather feed the trickle charger's voltage to the battery through the USB port.
In this direction
Home AC Power -> Trickle charger -> cigarette to USB converter -> car battery
Not in this direction
USB Port -> Trickle Charger -> battery
Three complications I see in this. One is the USB to Aux that converts 5V to 12V. The second is the car's internal electrical system converting the 12V to the 5V for the USB port. Lastly, there may be circuits in place to prevent doing this so it doesn't damage sensitive electrical circuits. I seriously doubt a USB port has a direct path from the battery like some auxiliary outlets may have. Ther are likely some additional electronics in between since it's not just a power port but also data to the entertainment system. All I can say, is that I would never even think about doing this. Then again, I never thought you could use the auxiliary ports (cigarette lighter) as a route to the battery so what do I know. For the auxiliary port, it makes more sense since it's 12V and just power. The USB port is a data port that only has 5V for power. Very different animal.
In this direction
Home AC Power -> Trickle charger -> cigarette to USB converter -> car battery
Not in this direction
USB Port -> Trickle Charger -> battery
Three complications I see in this. One is the USB to Aux that converts 5V to 12V. The second is the car's internal electrical system converting the 12V to the 5V for the USB port. Lastly, there may be circuits in place to prevent doing this so it doesn't damage sensitive electrical circuits. I seriously doubt a USB port has a direct path from the battery like some auxiliary outlets may have. Ther are likely some additional electronics in between since it's not just a power port but also data to the entertainment system. All I can say, is that I would never even think about doing this. Then again, I never thought you could use the auxiliary ports (cigarette lighter) as a route to the battery so what do I know. For the auxiliary port, it makes more sense since it's 12V and just power. The USB port is a data port that only has 5V for power. Very different animal.
The cigarette lighter is not directly connected to the battery: That did not hinder it from working. I think the same for the USB port.
I see no reason why the USB port would not work the same: the problem is that at 5 volts, the charge going through it, unlike the cigarette lighter is limited. As the Quora article points out, with only 5 volts and 1 or 2 amps of power in the trickle charger, it will work but may take very, very long.
On the other hand, if the batter is nearly fully charged, then maintaining the charge through the USB port should be doable.
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GLE 580
Last edited by wildta; Dec 24, 2024 at 12:24 PM.
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2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
I do not think anyone is saying they are the same: But electricity is electricity: If plugging in a trickle charger into a live cigarette lighter maintains a battery, then plugging in a trickle charger into a live USB port should also maintain the battery, albeit at a much lower rate.
All the articles I have read relate to the effectiveness of the trickle charger, not whether it would work: The articles seem to indicate that it will work, albeit at a significantly reduced rate.
If all that is being asked is to maintain a fully charged battery, as opposed to charging a battery, then a trickle charger through the USB should work.
On the other hand the USB, unlike the cigarette lighter may not be two directional or have some software related to data transmission that prevents it from being two way.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to wait until letter this week when the OP will contact Deltran to see what they say.
All the articles I have read relate to the effectiveness of the trickle charger, not whether it would work: The articles seem to indicate that it will work, albeit at a significantly reduced rate.
If all that is being asked is to maintain a fully charged battery, as opposed to charging a battery, then a trickle charger through the USB should work.
On the other hand the USB, unlike the cigarette lighter may not be two directional or have some software related to data transmission that prevents it from being two way.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to wait until letter this week when the OP will contact Deltran to see what they say.
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W214 E450
Not only do I think this will not work, but I believe you will damage some electronics in the car if you attempt to do this. You may even start a fire. The USB port cannot be used to route a trickle charge current to the battery. Attach a hard wired pigtail directly to the battery or auxiliary posts and run it to the front grille so you can easily and safely connect the trickle charger.
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GLE 580
Not only do I think this will not work, but I believe you will damage some electronics in the car if you attempt to do this. You may even start a fire. The USB port cannot be used to route a trickle charge current to the battery. Attach a hard wired pigtail directly to the battery or auxiliary posts and run it to the front grille so you can easily and safely connect the trickle charger.
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Not only do I think this will not work, but I believe you will damage some electronics in the car if you attempt to do this. You may even start a fire. The USB port cannot be used to route a trickle charge current to the battery. Attach a hard wired pigtail directly to the battery or auxiliary posts and run it to the front grille so you can easily and safely connect the trickle charger.
This might be the way to go.
FWIW, I cannot imagine how one can even contemplate starting a fire with a CTEK or other high end trickle charger. I used mine through the cigarette lighter for many years and it worked perfectly. I suspect the same through the USB, non data - charge only, in the center console.
I think we can all agree that we are all speculating: better to wait to hear back from Deltran.
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There is another USB port in the center console that is for charging only: no data is transferred.
This might be the way to go.
FWIW, I cannot imagine how one can even contemplate starting a fire with a CTEK or other high end trickle charger. I used mine through the cigarette lighter for many years and it worked perfectly. I suspect the same through the USB, non data - charge only, in the center console.
I think we can all agree that we are all speculating: better to wait to hear back from Deltran.
This might be the way to go.
FWIW, I cannot imagine how one can even contemplate starting a fire with a CTEK or other high end trickle charger. I used mine through the cigarette lighter for many years and it worked perfectly. I suspect the same through the USB, non data - charge only, in the center console.
I think we can all agree that we are all speculating: better to wait to hear back from Deltran.
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W214 E450
No speculation on my part. I have no doubt this will not work. It may not damage anything, but your battery will not charge by connecting a trickle charger output to the USB port in the car. It's crazy anyone thinks it would work.
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There is another USB port in the center console that is for charging only: no data is transferred.
This might be the way to go.
FWIW, I cannot imagine how one can even contemplate starting a fire with a CTEK or other high end trickle charger. I used mine through the cigarette lighter for many years and it worked perfectly. I suspect the same through the USB, non data - charge only, in the center console.
I think we can all agree that we are all speculating: better to wait to hear back from Deltran.
This might be the way to go.
FWIW, I cannot imagine how one can even contemplate starting a fire with a CTEK or other high end trickle charger. I used mine through the cigarette lighter for many years and it worked perfectly. I suspect the same through the USB, non data - charge only, in the center console.
I think we can all agree that we are all speculating: better to wait to hear back from Deltran.
Would you run 220V household current through 16ga wire in your house? If you do, you will start a fire.
You're suggesting pushing a much higher load through a device that is not rated for that load. With electricity, that creates heat and the result is melted components and possibly a fire. If the USB port has an overvoltage protection system, it will simply shut down and won't charge your battery but I doubt they do, especially older versions.
The cigarette lighter and its wiring is rated for the full 12V load and current. The USB is not.
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GLE 580
I'm in the same camp as you. It's not going to work.
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UPDATE:
Just plugged in my phone to the USB port in the center console: Within 30 minutes both USB ports were dead. That means the only USB port(s) that can be used for a trickle charger are those in front of the cup holders which are also data transfer.
Have to wait to see what Deltran says: my gut tells me they will say no: they are in the business of selling chargers that go directly to the battery.
Just plugged in my phone to the USB port in the center console: Within 30 minutes both USB ports were dead. That means the only USB port(s) that can be used for a trickle charger are those in front of the cup holders which are also data transfer.
Have to wait to see what Deltran says: my gut tells me they will say no: they are in the business of selling chargers that go directly to the battery.
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Spoiler alert: It does work!
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W214 E450
Not crazy to think it would work but not advisable. How do you know what is in between the aux port (a.k.a. cigarette lighter port) and the battery. Blindly plugging a charger to that port without knowing exactly what is between it and the battery is crazy even if it does actually work on some cars. It's not made for that purpose. The correct place to connect a trickle charger is to the battery itself. Some will connect the negative to a ground spot on the car but the positive should always be directly connected to the battery or a remote port of the battery that many modern cars have since the battery is sometimes hard to get to. Just because you can charge the battery through the aux port on some cars doesn't mean you should.
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Not crazy to think it would work but not advisable. How do you know what is in between the aux port (a.k.a. cigarette lighter port) and the battery. Blindly plugging a charger to that port without knowing exactly what is between it and the battery is crazy even if it does actually work on some cars. It's not made for that purpose. The correct place to connect a trickle charger is to the battery itself. Some will connect the negative to a ground spot on the car but the positive should always be directly connected to the battery or a remote port of the battery that many modern cars have since the battery is sometimes hard to get to. Just because you can charge the battery through the aux port on some cars doesn't mean you should.
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2017 M-B E400 4Matic Wagon AMG-Line
Read my post above. Of course it works through the cigarette lighter as that is a 12V circuit with the appropriate gauged wire. Trying to push 12V (+ current) through a device rated for 5V is pure madness.
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Here's the email exchange I had with Deltran. I don't know what to make of it. First he says that you can use a USB port to charge your car, then later he's non-committal because Deltran does not make a USB adapter to connect to a charger. When you look at the accessories on their site, they don't even list a cigarette lighter adapter anymore (even though I bought my cigarette lighter adapter from them years ago).
Me: "Hi. I have a Battery Tender Plus 1.25 Amp and I have a question about charging my car using a USB port. On my car, all the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets turn off when the ignition is turned off. So I can’t plug in my Battery Tender Plus to charge my car. However, I have a USB port that remain live continuously. I ordered an adapter that is 5 volt male USB on one side and 12 volt female cigarette lighter outlet on the other side (maximum output 8 watts). Can I plug my Battery Tender Plus into the cigarette lighter outlet which is connected to the USB port to charge my car?"
Deltran: "Unfortunately we do not have anything that would allow you to charge your vehicle's battery through the USB ports." [Deltran did not answer my question.]
Me: "Thank you for your response. But can I use the setup I described (i.e., Battery Tender Plus into cigarette lighter plug into cigarette lighter outlet into USB port) to charge my car?"
Deltran: "In order to be able to use the cigarette lighter adapter you first need to make sure that your vehicle's cigarette lighter adapter port stays hot when the vehicle is turned off. If your cigarette lighter port does stay hot when the vehicle is turned off, then yes you can charge the vehicle's battery through that port."
Me: "Just to be clear, the USB port is the only power port that stays hot when the ignition is turned off.
So, what I would like to is to connect as follows: 5 volt USB port on car to 12 volt cigarette lighter female adapter, to cigarette lighter plug on 1.25 Battery Tender Plus, to wall AC outlet. Will this work?
I realize that the amperage going to my car will be reduced from the 1.25 output on the Battery Tender Plus because the USB port is only 5 volts, and the Battery Tender Plus is 12 volts, but I should sill get at least 0.5 amps going to the car battery."
Deltran: "Understood. We do not manufacture a product that will fit a USB port to charge through." [Another unhelpful response from Deltron.]
Me; "I know that Deltran does not manufacture the USB-to-cigarette lighter adapter, but I did find an adapter made by someone else. Would the setup described below work to trickle charge my car?"
Deltran: "We cannot advise on that."
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
Me: "Hi. I have a Battery Tender Plus 1.25 Amp and I have a question about charging my car using a USB port. On my car, all the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets turn off when the ignition is turned off. So I can’t plug in my Battery Tender Plus to charge my car. However, I have a USB port that remain live continuously. I ordered an adapter that is 5 volt male USB on one side and 12 volt female cigarette lighter outlet on the other side (maximum output 8 watts). Can I plug my Battery Tender Plus into the cigarette lighter outlet which is connected to the USB port to charge my car?"
Deltran: "Unfortunately we do not have anything that would allow you to charge your vehicle's battery through the USB ports." [Deltran did not answer my question.]
Me: "Thank you for your response. But can I use the setup I described (i.e., Battery Tender Plus into cigarette lighter plug into cigarette lighter outlet into USB port) to charge my car?"
Deltran: "In order to be able to use the cigarette lighter adapter you first need to make sure that your vehicle's cigarette lighter adapter port stays hot when the vehicle is turned off. If your cigarette lighter port does stay hot when the vehicle is turned off, then yes you can charge the vehicle's battery through that port."
Me: "Just to be clear, the USB port is the only power port that stays hot when the ignition is turned off.
So, what I would like to is to connect as follows: 5 volt USB port on car to 12 volt cigarette lighter female adapter, to cigarette lighter plug on 1.25 Battery Tender Plus, to wall AC outlet. Will this work?
I realize that the amperage going to my car will be reduced from the 1.25 output on the Battery Tender Plus because the USB port is only 5 volts, and the Battery Tender Plus is 12 volts, but I should sill get at least 0.5 amps going to the car battery."
Deltran: "Understood. We do not manufacture a product that will fit a USB port to charge through." [Another unhelpful response from Deltron.]
Me; "I know that Deltran does not manufacture the USB-to-cigarette lighter adapter, but I did find an adapter made by someone else. Would the setup described below work to trickle charge my car?"
Deltran: "We cannot advise on that."
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
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2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Here's the email exchange I had with Deltran. I don't know what to make of it. First he says that you can use a USB port to charge your car, then later he's non-committal because Deltran does not make a USB adapter to connect to a charger. When you look at the accessories on their site, they don't even list a cigarette lighter adapter anymore (even though I bought my cigarette lighter adapter from them years ago).
Me: "Hi. I have a Battery Tender Plus 1.25 Amp and I have a question about charging my car using a USB port. On my car, all the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets turn off when the ignition is turned off. So I can’t plug in my Battery Tender Plus to charge my car. However, I have a USB port that remain live continuously. I ordered an adapter that is 5 volt male USB on one side and 12 volt female cigarette lighter outlet on the other side (maximum output 8 watts). Can I plug my Battery Tender Plus into the cigarette lighter outlet which is connected to the USB port to charge my car?"
Deltran: "Unfortunately we do not have anything that would allow you to charge your vehicle's battery through the USB ports." [Deltran did not answer my question.]
Me: "Thank you for your response. But can I use the setup I described (i.e., Battery Tender Plus into cigarette lighter plug into cigarette lighter outlet into USB port) to charge my car?"
Deltran: "In order to be able to use the cigarette lighter adapter you first need to make sure that your vehicle's cigarette lighter adapter port stays hot when the vehicle is turned off. If your cigarette lighter port does stay hot when the vehicle is turned off, then yes you can charge the vehicle's battery through that port."
Me: "Just to be clear, the USB port is the only power port that stays hot when the ignition is turned off.
So, what I would like to is to connect as follows: 5 volt USB port on car to 12 volt cigarette lighter female adapter, to cigarette lighter plug on 1.25 Battery Tender Plus, to wall AC outlet. Will this work?
I realize that the amperage going to my car will be reduced from the 1.25 output on the Battery Tender Plus because the USB port is only 5 volts, and the Battery Tender Plus is 12 volts, but I should sill get at least 0.5 amps going to the car battery."
Deltran: "Understood. We do not manufacture a product that will fit a USB port to charge through." [Another unhelpful response from Deltron.]
Me; "I know that Deltran does not manufacture the USB-to-cigarette lighter adapter, but I did find an adapter made by someone else. Would the setup described below work to trickle charge my car?"
Deltran: "We cannot advise on that."
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
Me: "Hi. I have a Battery Tender Plus 1.25 Amp and I have a question about charging my car using a USB port. On my car, all the 12 volt cigarette lighter outlets turn off when the ignition is turned off. So I can’t plug in my Battery Tender Plus to charge my car. However, I have a USB port that remain live continuously. I ordered an adapter that is 5 volt male USB on one side and 12 volt female cigarette lighter outlet on the other side (maximum output 8 watts). Can I plug my Battery Tender Plus into the cigarette lighter outlet which is connected to the USB port to charge my car?"
Deltran: "Unfortunately we do not have anything that would allow you to charge your vehicle's battery through the USB ports." [Deltran did not answer my question.]
Me: "Thank you for your response. But can I use the setup I described (i.e., Battery Tender Plus into cigarette lighter plug into cigarette lighter outlet into USB port) to charge my car?"
Deltran: "In order to be able to use the cigarette lighter adapter you first need to make sure that your vehicle's cigarette lighter adapter port stays hot when the vehicle is turned off. If your cigarette lighter port does stay hot when the vehicle is turned off, then yes you can charge the vehicle's battery through that port."
Me: "Just to be clear, the USB port is the only power port that stays hot when the ignition is turned off.
So, what I would like to is to connect as follows: 5 volt USB port on car to 12 volt cigarette lighter female adapter, to cigarette lighter plug on 1.25 Battery Tender Plus, to wall AC outlet. Will this work?
I realize that the amperage going to my car will be reduced from the 1.25 output on the Battery Tender Plus because the USB port is only 5 volts, and the Battery Tender Plus is 12 volts, but I should sill get at least 0.5 amps going to the car battery."
Deltran: "Understood. We do not manufacture a product that will fit a USB port to charge through." [Another unhelpful response from Deltron.]
Me; "I know that Deltran does not manufacture the USB-to-cigarette lighter adapter, but I did find an adapter made by someone else. Would the setup described below work to trickle charge my car?"
Deltran: "We cannot advise on that."
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
From my post #36:
"Have to wait to see what Deltran says: my gut tells me they will say no: they are in the business of selling chargers that go directly to the battery."
After going through 3 batteries in four years, Porsche gave me a charger that went through the cigarette lighter. Most people only drive their Porsches in warm weather and we were averaging only 500/600 miles per year. I suggested to Porsche that part of the equipment in dealer prep would be a battery tender.I used the tender and the battery lasted over 10 years.
Last edited by JTK44; Dec 26, 2024 at 03:58 PM.
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W214 E450
From my post #36:
I used the tender and the battery lasted over 10 years.
"Have to wait to see what Deltran says: my gut tells me they will say no: they are in the business of selling chargers that go directly to the battery."
After going through 3 batteries in four years, Porsche gave me a charger that went through the cigarette lighter. Most people only drive their Porsches in warm weather and we were averaging only 500/600 miles per year. I suggested to Porsche that part of the equipment in dealer prep would be a battery tender.I used the tender and the battery lasted over 10 years.
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Deltran: "We cannot advise on that."
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
BTW, I loooked at the output amperage on my Porsche-brand battery maintainer that I've been using for years. It is only 1/2 an amp but does the job of keeping the battery charged on a car that I use maybe once a month. The battery is over 12 years old and still going strong.
There are many issues with what you are considering but the biggest one is voltage. The car steps down 12V to 5V at some point before the actual USB port you see in the car. My guess is it's the MBUX system hardware that does this. Then your adapter steps it back up to 12V. The problem is those step up/down DC converters are one way unless specifically designed to be both ways. Both the adapter and the car would have to do this. I doubt either does which means that likely current won't even flow in the opposite direction. That's your best case. You plug this all in and you get nothing. Worst case is you plug it in and you overload a circuit that fries or worse starts a fire. My guess is you will get nothing or you may fry the cheep adapter. In any case, I would not advise you even try. If you can't use the auxiliary port because its switched, then MB clearly did not intend on customers having the ability to charge the car through it. If that's the case, they certainly wouldn't design the USB port for that purpose. Far cheaper to use the auxiliary port for charging the battery if that was what they wanted.
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i would bet that Porsche specifically designed it so the battery can be charged through the auxiliary port. Not surprising since as you say, most do not drive their Porsche in the winter. A Mercedes-Benz E-Class however, is much more likely to be driven all year. Therefore less need to have a battery tender and less likely they intentionally designed the auxiliary port as a charging port for the battery. Even more unlikely they designed the USB port to be used to charge the battery. In fact, I would bet that no car is designed to charge the battery through a USB port. Far cheaper and easier to do it through the auxiliary port if that was a design choice they wanted to make.
"Porsche specifically designed it so the battery can be charged through the auxiliary port."
What I do know is that using the same battery charger from Porsche I was able to maintain the charge in both my prior Mercedes and both of my Ford Edges.
I do have a concern with a 12 volt battery charger going through a 5 volt line: But that can be compensated for by using a 6 volt charger.
This afternoon I am going to see if both USB ports are data ports. If both are, that would be my main concern.
This for me is all hypothetical: I seem to have more than average mileage on 2019 E450, 50,000 miles which indicates constant usage and charging of the battery. I also fully charge the batter with a charger several times a year: Fall, winter and spring. So far so good: I am still on my original batter - 6 years old!
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W214 E450
I have no idea whether:
What I do know is that using the same battery charger from Porsche I was able to maintain the charge in both my prior Mercedes and both of my Ford Edges.
I do have a concern with a 12 volt battery charger going through a 5 volt line: But that can be compensated for by using a 6 volt charger.
This afternoon I am going to see if both USB ports are data ports. If both are, that would be my main concern.
This for me is all hypothetical: I seem to have more than average mileage on 2019 E450, 50,000 miles which indicates constant usage and charging of the battery. I also fully charge the batter with a charger several times a year: Fall, winter and spring. So far so good: I am still on my original batter - 6 years old!
"Porsche specifically designed it so the battery can be charged through the auxiliary port."
What I do know is that using the same battery charger from Porsche I was able to maintain the charge in both my prior Mercedes and both of my Ford Edges.
I do have a concern with a 12 volt battery charger going through a 5 volt line: But that can be compensated for by using a 6 volt charger.
This afternoon I am going to see if both USB ports are data ports. If both are, that would be my main concern.
This for me is all hypothetical: I seem to have more than average mileage on 2019 E450, 50,000 miles which indicates constant usage and charging of the battery. I also fully charge the batter with a charger several times a year: Fall, winter and spring. So far so good: I am still on my original batter - 6 years old!
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https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...your-w213.html
That seems to be true: Like a stapler only runs out while you are using it.
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GLE 580
If this thread is accurate, I am below average mileage for 6 years.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...your-w213.html
Not my experience: I have always gotten a warning: light or difficult to start. I also have my battery tested.
That seems to be true: Like a stapler only runs out while you are using it.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...your-w213.html
Not my experience: I have always gotten a warning: light or difficult to start. I also have my battery tested.
That seems to be true: Like a stapler only runs out while you are using it.
