Mercedes-Benz Unveils the 6th-Generation W214 E-Class
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M. Schneider (05-14-2023)
#177
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I think the main idea is raised ride height and just high profile tires, hopefully enough to convert some SUV owners, only because there are way too many SUV owners and especially for those who like to corner a lot, SUV just doesn't cut it.
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M. Schneider (05-14-2023)
#178
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I noticed that when it comes to the 2024 All-Terrain (W214), seems like the car is being designed from the ground up to be a real “All Terrain”.
More along the lines of what Audi did with the All-road, than the current W213 generation All-Terrain. The current W213 All-Terrain seems to be a regular wagon just jacked up a tiny bit (they say an additional 2” over the regular E wagon), with some plastic wheel cladding added in, than an intentional ground-up “All Terrain” design.
More along the lines of what Audi did with the All-road, than the current W213 generation All-Terrain. The current W213 All-Terrain seems to be a regular wagon just jacked up a tiny bit (they say an additional 2” over the regular E wagon), with some plastic wheel cladding added in, than an intentional ground-up “All Terrain” design.
#179
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#180
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Redundant systems are a thing of the pass except sometimes for critical systems. The Boeing 737 max grounding should have taught us that planes and vehicles should have redundant systems for critical functions. Unfortunately, most car companies are run by accountants and lawyers now, not engineers.
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Solo wing (05-12-2023)
#181
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In the case of the brake light, there are the main brake lights but as you already know, a third brake light as well just in case, although like you said not legal to have any brake light out. There should be a backup supply (module?) in case the system detects a module is not working. For example I think servers have their own set of backup machines so when it does go offline, for major corporation like Google, they have another set of systems on standby. I believe Mercedes does have this protection in place, so if one fails the other one takes over, at least temporarily. Some planes theoretically can operate on one engine and as far as I heard even glide if all engines are offline through a turbine that pops out from beneath the plane to provide electricity for critical instruments.
#182
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I've heard the E-Class is used as a taxi thing so many times, and it's true. If you owned a taxi company, would you prefer a fleet of cars that meet the needs of your customers while requiring minimal time in for repairs, or a fleet in repair rotation? The fact that the E-Class is used for this purpose just means to me it's a solid platform, one which can be configured quite nicely for personal use. That said, I have to wonder if those used for taxi purposes use the 48v system...
#183
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S213 2020 E450 4Matic CDN Spec 07/19 build
REEEEAAAALLLYYYY not liking the size of the fake airscoops in the lower front corners. They're out of proportion with the rest of the car's face.
#184
I noticed that when it comes to the 2024 All-Terrain (W214), seems like the car is being designed from the ground up to be a real “All Terrain”.
More along the lines of what Audi did with the All-road, than the current W213 generation All-Terrain. The current W213 All-Terrain seems to be a regular wagon just jacked up a tiny bit (they say an additional 2” over the regular E wagon), with some plastic wheel cladding added in, than an intentional ground-up “All Terrain” design.
More along the lines of what Audi did with the All-road, than the current W213 generation All-Terrain. The current W213 All-Terrain seems to be a regular wagon just jacked up a tiny bit (they say an additional 2” over the regular E wagon), with some plastic wheel cladding added in, than an intentional ground-up “All Terrain” design.
#185
I hope they don’t make it too Subaru and double down on the ‘lifestyle’ appearance, materials, and off-roadiness. The current car looks and drives like a sport sedan or luxury sedan depending on suspension setting and wheel option, with a bit more ride height available when necessary. IMO, that’s all the S214 needs to be as well.
So if Mercedes can appeal to the wider marketplace, by doing some ‘crossover’ tweaks, while retaining the practicality of a wagon, I don’t think I’d fault them.
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#187
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...n-reliability/
https://www.motortrend.com/news/inte...r-joe-stauble/
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)
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My bad, just realized I should had just included the quotes to save time for those who don't want to read the whole thing:
First link: "Mercedes says that, in the U.S., the E-class-wagon owner has among the highest average household income of all its customers, rivaled only by that of G-wagen buyers. "
Second link: "What are the demographics of the E-Class wagon buyer? It's definitely one of our wealthiest demographics. Compared to the E-Class sedan, which is about $200,000 median household income, the E-Class wagon is about $375,000. Some of these buyers grew up in an E-Class wagon and feel nostalgic. They value it for their children, wanting their kids to be in the same car that they were in."
#189
Of course the people (in the US) who opt for the E-wagon are older and wealthier. That’s the whole point. It is a product meant for a really old demographic, and it genuinely appeals to them. That really old demographic will slowly die out, and Mercedes wouldn’t want product development strategy to center around a dying demographic. They’d want to lower that age bracket, and can do that by re-packaging it as a wagon-like “crossover”. Take away the “stigma” associated with the “wagon” tag, while retaining all of the wagon goodness.
I think that was the primary point in the “All Terrain” moniker (to appeal to a younger demographic), even though they did not go the whole hog in making it a true “All Terrain”, when it came to the W213.
I personally like the Audi All-road, especially since it retains every bit of the wagon goodness, while appealing to a wider/younger demographic. And Mercedes seems to be taking a leaf out of the Audi book, by making the W214 a true “All Terrain”, than merely naming it so.
PS: I personally am not in the “really old” demographic, and buying the All-terrain, was a deliberate choice, since I personally love wagons. But as a wagon buyer, I am more of an outlier than the norm, especially when it comes to US new car buyers. Also, I doubt an E450 sedan buyer is hard-pressed to not be able to buy the wagon, if he/she so desires. The sedan buying decision is a deliberate choice.
I think that was the primary point in the “All Terrain” moniker (to appeal to a younger demographic), even though they did not go the whole hog in making it a true “All Terrain”, when it came to the W213.
I personally like the Audi All-road, especially since it retains every bit of the wagon goodness, while appealing to a wider/younger demographic. And Mercedes seems to be taking a leaf out of the Audi book, by making the W214 a true “All Terrain”, than merely naming it so.
PS: I personally am not in the “really old” demographic, and buying the All-terrain, was a deliberate choice, since I personally love wagons. But as a wagon buyer, I am more of an outlier than the norm, especially when it comes to US new car buyers. Also, I doubt an E450 sedan buyer is hard-pressed to not be able to buy the wagon, if he/she so desires. The sedan buying decision is a deliberate choice.
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M. Schneider (05-14-2023)
#190
There's more to it than that. Mercedes does not market or incentivize wagons in the US because they would rather sell you an SUV. Trucks and SUVs have lower emissions requirements and are better for CAFE, and most Mercedes SUVs are built in the US and are therefore more profitable. Starting price for a wagon is $71k; starting price for an E-class sedan or SUV is $56k. They are not a value proposition, so do not appeal to most buyers.
The 'All-Terrain' treatment does widen appeal by capturing some would-be SUV buyers. But I do not think it is an age-related marketing move.
What is it about the Allroad (I assume you are referring to the A6) that you think makes it appeal to a wider/younger demographic, and more of an "all-terrain" vehicle? I think the opposite...with its ancient drivetrain, it was not something I even considered (although I did look at the RS6).
The 'All-Terrain' treatment does widen appeal by capturing some would-be SUV buyers. But I do not think it is an age-related marketing move.
What is it about the Allroad (I assume you are referring to the A6) that you think makes it appeal to a wider/younger demographic, and more of an "all-terrain" vehicle? I think the opposite...with its ancient drivetrain, it was not something I even considered (although I did look at the RS6).
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#192
In the US however, Mercedes brings only the All-Terrain variant. No more regular wagon. The older demographic actually likes wagons. The younger demographic (in the US) runs away from anything with a “wagon” in its name. The term “All Terrain” sounds innocuous enough.
So the introduction of the “All-Terrain”, is certainly an age-related marketing move, even though IMHO, Mercedes did not go far enough to make it a true “All Terrain”, when it came to the W213.
In addition to the lack of good ground clearance (7” to me is minimum for an “All-Terrain”, in the comfort mode), the worst feature of the W213 All-terrain is the lack of raised roof-rails, which prevents the panoramic sunroof from opening fully, when the cross-bars are attached……the roof rail/crossbar design of the W213 All-Terrain, is almost like an engineering afterthought, than a practical All-terrain luxury vehicle design. A wagon is the epitome of utility, and the utility of the wagon is curtailed if the attachment of cross-bars, interferes with other core functionality…..and I hope the W214 “All Terrain” will address these shortcomings.
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)
#194
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The only place in the world where the term “wagon” kills the appeal of the product, is the US. In Europe, Mercedes sells both the regular wagon and the All-Terrain, side-by-side, with the All-terrain having the black wheel claddings and a couple of inches of added ride height. People really like wagons in the rest of the world, including the younger, hip crowd.
In the US however, Mercedes brings only the All-Terrain variant. No more regular wagon. The older demographic actually likes wagons. The younger demographic (in the US) runs away from anything with a “wagon” in its name. The term “All Terrain” sounds innocuous enough.
So the introduction of the “All-Terrain”, is certainly an age-related marketing move, even though IMHO, Mercedes did not go far enough to make it a true “All Terrain”, when it came to the W213.
In addition to the lack of good ground clearance (7” to me is minimum for an “All-Terrain”, in the comfort mode), the worst feature of the W213 All-terrain is the lack of raised roof-rails, which prevents the panoramic sunroof from opening fully, when the cross-bars are attached……the roof rail/crossbar design of the W213 All-Terrain, is almost like an engineering afterthought, than a practical All-terrain luxury vehicle design. A wagon is the epitome of utility, and the utility of the wagon is curtailed if the attachment of cross-bars, interferes with other core functionality…..and I hope the W214 “All Terrain” will address these shortcomings.
In the US however, Mercedes brings only the All-Terrain variant. No more regular wagon. The older demographic actually likes wagons. The younger demographic (in the US) runs away from anything with a “wagon” in its name. The term “All Terrain” sounds innocuous enough.
So the introduction of the “All-Terrain”, is certainly an age-related marketing move, even though IMHO, Mercedes did not go far enough to make it a true “All Terrain”, when it came to the W213.
In addition to the lack of good ground clearance (7” to me is minimum for an “All-Terrain”, in the comfort mode), the worst feature of the W213 All-terrain is the lack of raised roof-rails, which prevents the panoramic sunroof from opening fully, when the cross-bars are attached……the roof rail/crossbar design of the W213 All-Terrain, is almost like an engineering afterthought, than a practical All-terrain luxury vehicle design. A wagon is the epitome of utility, and the utility of the wagon is curtailed if the attachment of cross-bars, interferes with other core functionality…..and I hope the W214 “All Terrain” will address these shortcomings.
But here is the reality: In the US the E Class wagon is fully loaded. In Europe and other countries the wagon is more utilitarian and can be had for thousands less. In the US a GLE 350 starts at $57,700 the GLE 450 AWD $67,700. The All Terrain E starts at $71,250.
So for those of us who think the E Class is not big enough, we face a conundrum: If we need extra space, does it make sense to buy the wagon, which has less space than the GLE, for more money?
In my particular case, I prefer a sedan to an SUV. The E 450 starts at $65,500, $6,000 less than the wagon. We also have a Ford Edge when we need extra space. For the few times my wife was using our SUV and I needed the extra space of the wagon over the sedan, I could not justify spending $6,000 extra. I lease and that comes to about $100 a month extra for the wagon over the sedan. For the extra space 2 or 3 times a year, I could not justify $100 a month extra.
Plus a Sedan, where the rear wheels are in the trunk, is quieter than the wagon.
Just my $.02.
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)
#196
@Roweraay I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
And I sure hope they don't put raised roof rails on the S214. Standard sunroof solves any interference issues without ruining the elegant wagon roofline.
And I sure hope they don't put raised roof rails on the S214. Standard sunroof solves any interference issues without ruining the elegant wagon roofline.
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)
#197
In hindsight, I am not complaining, since the AT meets all of my current and future needs, and I have really grown to like the E450 a lot. And I also like its relative compactness over a GLE. People riding in the E450 are shocked at how good it rides. Current reading is that it will be a keeper for the next 10 years !
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)
#198
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Yeah, people have different preferences, and thus perfectly alright to disagree. After owning vehicles with panoramic sunroofs, the standard sunroof looks ancient and archaic….takes me back to the late 90s. I personally would always prefer a pano version, now that we’re in 2023. Either way, the fact that the pano roof does not open properly, when the Mercedes crossbars are attached, tells me that the cross-bar design, has not undergone the engineering I expect in a Mercedes product. Mercedes getting lazy and sloppy…..and I bet they will address that in the W214, even without the raised roof-rails.
As you go south the thermal heat would make the car uncomfortable during the summer in sunshine.
I only have the "moon roof": When it is sunny and temps are above 85 to keep my E450 comfortable I must set the auto temp to 70. If I close the shade to achieve the same level of comfort I raise the temp to 74.
Running the AC is a drain on mpg. The higher the temperature setting the better the mpg.
On the reverse side in the winter, the thermal gain will be more with the panorama roof vs. the moon roof.
#199
I see you are in Washington state:
As you go south the thermal heat would make the car uncomfortable during the summer in sunshine.
I only have the "moon roof": When it is sunny and temps are above 85 to keep my E450 comfortable I must set the auto temp to 70. If I close the shade to achieve the same level of comfort I raise the temp to 74.
Running the AC is a drain on mpg. The higher the temperature setting the better the mpg.
On the reverse side in the winter, the thermal gain will be more with the panorama roof vs. the moon roof.
As you go south the thermal heat would make the car uncomfortable during the summer in sunshine.
I only have the "moon roof": When it is sunny and temps are above 85 to keep my E450 comfortable I must set the auto temp to 70. If I close the shade to achieve the same level of comfort I raise the temp to 74.
Running the AC is a drain on mpg. The higher the temperature setting the better the mpg.
On the reverse side in the winter, the thermal gain will be more with the panorama roof vs. the moon roof.
PS: I moved from Columbus, OH to the Seattle area, just 3 months back……took on a new role that required me to be based out of WA.
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M. Schneider (06-09-2023)