E/W214: MotorTrend Review of the W214 E53
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Thanks for posting:
I do not want to be snarky, but I did read the article and there is nothing in the article that talks about engine charging.
What it does say, and this is discussed in many different posts, the ability to "hold" the battery for future use. If you are "holding the battery" you are using the ICE. When you "hold" the battery, it is not being charged, but it is holding it charge.
I do not want to be snarky, but I did read the article and there is nothing in the article that talks about engine charging.
What it does say, and this is discussed in many different posts, the ability to "hold" the battery for future use. If you are "holding the battery" you are using the ICE. When you "hold" the battery, it is not being charged, but it is holding it charge.
Please note: Charging the high-voltage battery while driving can increase the average consumption.
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I own a an X5 45e and I really feel like we are overthinking this. When the car runs out of battery, it functions just like any other hybrid. Charging the battery up off of the engine is kind of silly and I believe that function is mostly there for European cities that only allow electric cars at certain times or in certain zones.
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I got the info from google comparing the E53 to the BMW M5e. They showed the difference was the BMW could charge the battery with ICE. I would not bet the farm on my source. I think my best bet may be the E450. The AMG was for appearance and EGO. My ego is not big enough to haul an 800 lbs of extra weight for 40 miles. I thought the engine could charge the battery and the car could be driven as a hybrid. It was never about HP, 375 is more than I need.
Last edited by petee1997; Jun 12, 2025 at 07:46 PM.
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Think about it: If it were otherwise, the charging by the engine of the battery would be the default setting.
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Even if available it makes no sense: This is a negative: the cost of the energy you will use in extra fuel will be greater than the energy you will put in your battery.
Think about it: If it were otherwise, the charging by the engine of the battery would be the default setting.
Think about it: If it were otherwise, the charging by the engine of the battery would be the default setting.
It is relatively pointless. As you mentioned, extra fuel usage. I imagine this is why MB kept it out. I can't really think of a valid use case except perhaps if you're on a journey, your battery is depleted, and you want to drive on full electric in a small town or something, whether by preference or regulation.
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Another use for the feature, at least on the BMW is that the BMW has no remote start. The only way you can precondition (run cabin heat or AC) is if you have battery power left. So you can run this mode the end your trip with enough battery juice to precondition for your next trip.
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Back to the topic: the AMG E53 does not have this feature: charging is either through regenerative braking or outside (wall) charging. See post #204
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I agree with JTK here on this point. I'm not saying that the X5e cannot recharge the battery with the ICE, but this article is not definitive. It's a generic article and does not go into specifics of any particular model. Then the part of "Battery Control" does not actually say that the ICE charges the battery. It's vague and leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
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I again believe this is incorrect. There is regenerative braking to charge the battery but not engine charging.
If there were engine charging the PHEV would be like a hybrid: the mileage would on the open road would be very high.
I know you do not want to, but after all these post, you should acknowledge there is a substantial difference between how a hybrid and PHEV operate: The PHEV gives you the option of driving on battery only, pure electric no gas for up to 40 miles. A hybrid is never pure electric but a combination of ICE and electric. With a hybrid you are always burning fuel, albeit at a substantially reduce rate as compared to an ICE: to either charge the battery or to propel the car.
If there were engine charging the PHEV would be like a hybrid: the mileage would on the open road would be very high.
I know you do not want to, but after all these post, you should acknowledge there is a substantial difference between how a hybrid and PHEV operate: The PHEV gives you the option of driving on battery only, pure electric no gas for up to 40 miles. A hybrid is never pure electric but a combination of ICE and electric. With a hybrid you are always burning fuel, albeit at a substantially reduce rate as compared to an ICE: to either charge the battery or to propel the car.
Porsche PHEVs also have ICE battery charging:
E-CHARGE mode
In E-CHARGE mode, the high-voltage battery can be charged while driving. This mode is useful for specifically increasing the electric range, particularly on journeys with a high level of combustion engine-powered driving. The high-voltage battery can be charged when driving on a highway, for example, so that an urban route can then be driven using purely electric power.
https://manual.porsche.com/#/wpi/YAA...24c0b301058a07
So are they wrong, too?
And since we are well and truly in the weeds here, conventional hybrids do move on electric power only, however slowly and briefly.
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I doubt the incentives will ever come close to offsetting the $18,000 price delta between the E450 and the E53.
I think it is more of "technology for technology sake" and not wanting to not have something your rivals have. Think of the useless screen for the passenger.
I just returned from nearly three weeks in Japan, land of hybrid cars, but not PHEV's or EV's. When asked why the answer was pretty simple and straightforward: the added complexity and the chance in the case of EV's of the lithium batteries catching fire.
The Japanese have bet on hybrids not PHEV and they seem to be onto something that makes sense, at least to me.
I think it is more of "technology for technology sake" and not wanting to not have something your rivals have. Think of the useless screen for the passenger.
I just returned from nearly three weeks in Japan, land of hybrid cars, but not PHEV's or EV's. When asked why the answer was pretty simple and straightforward: the added complexity and the chance in the case of EV's of the lithium batteries catching fire.
The Japanese have bet on hybrids not PHEV and they seem to be onto something that makes sense, at least to me.
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I think they do: The Toyota Prius has been around for almost 30 years. I do not recall any problems with their batteries. As compared to the batteries in the PHEV, the battery is less than 5 KW and weighs about 80 lbs.
So maybe size matters?
Hope this helps
So maybe size matters?
Hope this helps
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Older Prius's use nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) batteries. Newer use Lithium Ion.
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see: https://www.google.com/search?q=when...t=gws-wiz-serp
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X214
To me, ICE charging of the battery is the worst of all worlds. The energy converted by the ICE system, has already suffered production/conversion losses, and then when transferred into the battery, there'd be further losses.
What exactly are we trying to solve here ? And why in the heavens is this considered as a positive ?
What exactly are we trying to solve here ? And why in the heavens is this considered as a positive ?
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To me, ICE charging of the battery is the worst of all worlds. The energy converted by the ICE system, has already suffered production/conversion losses, and then when transferred into the battery, there'd be further losses.
What exactly are we trying to solve here ? And why in the heavens is this considered as a positive ?
What exactly are we trying to solve here ? And why in the heavens is this considered as a positive ?
PHEV only make sense for short driving: (Or in cities where ICE are banned) If your daily use is 40 miles, about 10K per year, you will save 400 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. At $3.50 a gallon that is a savings of $1400 per year. As the AMG E53 costs $18,000 plus 5% over 10 years, total $27,000 it will take nearly 20 years of gas savings to recover the extra cost. Of course if you take trips beyond 40 miles you will be using the ICE, which because of the extra battery weight, your mpg will be substantially less further adding to your cost and further pushing out in time the break even point. (I am not considering the cost of electricity at home that is used to charge the car)
The PHEV's where the cost delta vs. ICE are less than $7,000 might make financial sense because of the FTC - assuming it is passed on in the lease. I am assuming because of income limitations the FTC of $7,500 is not available if you buy. (I am also not considering the extra cost of repairs of PHEV's vs. hybrid or ICE - PHEV's are substantially less reliable than either hybrids or ICE's)
There are very good reasons why PHEV are being outsold 6 to 1 by hybrid and 4 to 1 by BEV.
As I originally posted:
PHEV are an answer looking for a question or a solution looking for a problem
see: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65384
Last edited by JTK44; Jun 14, 2025 at 10:57 AM.
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As I posted using the engine to charge the battery in a PHEV is a negative: the energy used by the ICE is greater than the energy put into the battery. Mercedes made a smart decision in not having the battery being charged by the ICE.
PHEV only make sense for short driving: (Or in cities where ICE are banned) If your daily use is 40 miles, about 10K per year, you will save 400 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. At $3.50 a gallon that is a savings of $1400 per year. As the AMG E53 costs $18,000 plus 5% over 10 years, total $27,000 it will take nearly 20 years of gas savings to recover the extra cost. Of course if you take trips beyond 40 miles you will be using the ICE, which because of the extra battery weight, your mpg will be substantially less further adding to your cost and further pushing out in time the break even point. (I am not considering the cost of electricity at home that is used to charge the car)
The PHEV's where the cost delta vs. ICE are less than $7,000 might make financial sense because of the FTC - assuming it is passed on in the lease. I am assuming because of income limitations the FTC of $7,500 is not available if you buy. (I am also not considering the extra cost of repairs of PHEV's vs. hybrid or ICE - PHEV's are substantially less reliable than either hybrids or ICE's)
There are very good reasons why PHEV are being outsold 6 to 1 by hybrid and 4 to 1 by BEV.
As I originally posted:
PHEV only make sense for short driving: (Or in cities where ICE are banned) If your daily use is 40 miles, about 10K per year, you will save 400 gallons of gas at 25 mpg. At $3.50 a gallon that is a savings of $1400 per year. As the AMG E53 costs $18,000 plus 5% over 10 years, total $27,000 it will take nearly 20 years of gas savings to recover the extra cost. Of course if you take trips beyond 40 miles you will be using the ICE, which because of the extra battery weight, your mpg will be substantially less further adding to your cost and further pushing out in time the break even point. (I am not considering the cost of electricity at home that is used to charge the car)
The PHEV's where the cost delta vs. ICE are less than $7,000 might make financial sense because of the FTC - assuming it is passed on in the lease. I am assuming because of income limitations the FTC of $7,500 is not available if you buy. (I am also not considering the extra cost of repairs of PHEV's vs. hybrid or ICE - PHEV's are substantially less reliable than either hybrids or ICE's)
There are very good reasons why PHEV are being outsold 6 to 1 by hybrid and 4 to 1 by BEV.
As I originally posted:
PHEV are an answer looking for a question or a solution looking for a problem
see: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65384
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- The AMG E53 is faster than the E450 - until the battery is depleted. Once the battery is depleted, because of the almost 1000 lbs. extra weight, the E450 is faster, handles better and has a smoother ride.
- The AMG is loaded with high degree of options: As we all know, options are high profit margins for the manufacturer. One has to decide if the options are what you want. We all know, when a car is 10 years old, options bring $.10/.20 on the dollar in resale or trade.
Last edited by JTK44; Jun 14, 2025 at 05:30 PM.
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No. The E53 keeps reserve power strictly for performance. It has an ICE engine, suspension, tires, and brakes all focused on performance that are not available on the E450 (not to mention seats, steering wheel). The E450 is a luxury car and as such will always be slower and softer. Duh.
Last edited by Hicksra; Jun 14, 2025 at 09:59 PM.
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No. The E53 keeps reserve power strictly for performance. It has an ICE engine, suspension, tires, and brakes all focused on performance that are not available on the E450 (not to mention seats, steering wheel). The E450 is a luxury car and as such will always be slower and softer. Duh.
Having said that not a fan, of PHEV's simply because the BEV's are more efficient and less complex but I can see why a person would buy one. They are not an solution in search of a problem..
Last edited by MBNUT1; Jun 14, 2025 at 10:11 PM.
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X214
No. The E53 keeps reserve power strictly for performance. It has an ICE engine, suspension, tires, and brakes all focused on performance that are not available on the E450 (not to mention seats, steering wheel). The E450 is a luxury car and as such will always be slower and softer. Duh.
What I do miss in the E450, are the better bolstered sports-seats etc that come on the AMG products. I dislike the flat-seats on the E450.
I would have been thrilled with the E53 Wagon, if it did NOT have the heavy PHEV hardware, and came as a pure ICE + 48V (like say the drivetrain in the GLE53). It would have met every single one of my wants. As it stands, I have no interest whatsoever in the current E53.
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Right like the Mercedes engineers are going to the allow the battery to be "depleted" to the point where you couldn't access the additional acceleration. If that were to be the case that would affect all hybrids. What the other poster fails to recognize is the energy expended by the electric motor accelerating to a given speed is largely recovered during the deceleration. Additionally the hybrid delivers the performance more efficiently that a pure ICE powered car of the same capability. The emissions would be like half of a 2021 E63.
Having said that not a fan, of PHEV's simply because the BEV's are more efficient and less complex but I can see why a person would buy one. They are not an solution in search of a problem..
Having said that not a fan, of PHEV's simply because the BEV's are more efficient and less complex but I can see why a person would buy one. They are not an solution in search of a problem..
As to emissions: for the first 40 miles zero emissions: thereafter, for example a 300 mile trip, the next 260 miles greater emissions than an E450 as the mpg is less, hence more fuel is burned and greater emissions. So the emissions benefits of driving with the first 40 miles are offset thereafter.
Curiosity: what problem does the AMG PHEV actually solve?
