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I've read some articles and viewed some videos that show Mercedes using digital keys (via the MercedesMe app) in Europe but not in the US / North America. I also see that MB is planning on brining the digital key to the new E Class.
Does anyone know of any updates as to whether or not our EQ models will be able to use digital keys in the near future here in the US / North America? Am I right to assume the vehicles have been produced with the NFC chips needed for digital keys?
The digital key will only be supported for select 2024 models and newer such as the new E Class. The update to the US Mercedes me connect app was pushed out a few weeks back, so it is available in the USA for supported models. There's no update planned for older cars and likely the hardware is not there. Apple Digital Keys can use NFC, but that's old and requires to hold the phone near the door handle. The digital keys for cars uses UWB (Ultra-wideband, need an iPhone 11 or newer). This works much like the car fob itself. You only need to have the phone on you. No need to take it out, so it's basically equivalent to the key fob, but UWB needs to be supported by the car and so far only the newer models such as the 2024 E Class have it.
Last edited by superswiss; 10-26-2023 at 06:53 PM.
Perhaps just to clarify. All current MB models have digital keys to lock and unlock the vehicle and even remote start it. That can all be done from the app, but you can't use the phone to start the car and drive off, for that the key fob is still required.
Perhaps just to clarify. All current MB models have digital keys to lock and unlock the vehicle and even remote start it. That can all be done from the app, but you can't use the phone to start the car and drive off, for that the key fob is still required.
They need to least enable NFC Apple carkey if not UWB Apple CarKey support. Since MB doesn’t want to go the route of Tesla like BT key support.
It's not about want. BT is very insecure as a key technology, because BT proximity is based on signal strength. UWB on the other hand measures distance based on the time it takes the signal to travel from point A to point B. The UWB signals are timestamped. This allows UWB to accurately detect if the key source is in fact close to the car and it's not a relay attack where the signal has been relayed from point A to point B. It will detect this because in a relay attack the signal takes longer to travel to the car. NFC is also more secure, because you have to hold the phone right up to the door handle. The signal is too weak to be relayed. UWB is also used to precisely pinpoint the location of an AirTag, whereas older iPhones that don't have UWB can only pinpoint the general vicinity.
I see where you are coming from but since these vehicles support BT LE and LE support time of flight just like UWB the theory doesn’t hold water.
Apple find my devices use BT time of flight and key sharing for ranging and only UWB for directional mapping.
so year with BT and NFC carkey support (like Ioniq, BMW iDrive 8x series and other) can be supported on existing vehicles. Where you need to use your Apple Watch or phone to unlock driver door and phone in center console to drive.
not the GV60 and 24 E class CarKey with passive entry and drive
I see where you are coming from but since these vehicles support BT LE and LE support time of flight just like UWB the theory doesn’t hold water.
Apple find my devices use BT time of flight and key sharing for ranging and only UWB for directional mapping.
so year with BT and NFC carkey support (like Ioniq, BMW iDrive 8x series and other) can be supported on existing vehicles. Where you need to use your Apple Watch or phone to unlock driver door and phone in center console to drive.
not the GV60 and 24 E class CarKey with passive entry and drive
My understanding is that BLE ToF is not native and most chipsets don't provide accurate timers capable of measuring ToF, so it ends up being an approximation. UWB has ToF built into its design.
My understanding is that BLE ToF is not native and most chipsets don't provide accurate timers capable of measuring ToF, so it ends up being an approximation. UWB has ToF built into its design.
Yea BT4.2 brought it in, from my testing EQE/S seems to have 4.3 or better with support for ToF
yes not brining in quality of life feature when there is no reason not to does tend to hurt the brand. Tesla learned this with their early model S
Obviously needs to be fully supported on both ends. I assume iOS fully supports it, but not sure about cheap Android phones. The other thing is that keyless go/start can also determine if the key source is inside or outside of the car using multiple antennas. I'm assuming UWB will do the same as they are moving to using UWB for the physical fobs itself. So things like preventing locking your key/phone in the car depend on this, and to only be able to start the car if the key/phone is inside of it. I suppose Tesla somewhat solves this with their auto locking capabilities, but if you forget your phone in the car that doesn't help.
I recently had a BMW rental and the auto locking when walking away was kinda neat, but it had two issues. I ended up having to listen and look back if the car actually locked and every time I happened to walk by the car it unlocked again. For example at one point I had to walk down the street to the central parking meter so the car locked, but then when I walked back past the car it unlocked again. That was kinda unnerving, because it made me unsure if the car was actually locked when I finally walked away. Not truly fond of this I have to say. I prefer to lock my car and get confirmation before I walk away and knowing that it stays locked, even if I just walk past it with my fob in my pocket and getting a notification on my phone if I do forgot to lock is a nice piece of mind.
Last edited by superswiss; 11-01-2023 at 04:13 PM.
Obviously needs to be fully supported on both ends. I assume iOS fully supports it, but not sure about cheap Android phones. The other thing is that keyless go/start can also determine if the key source is inside or outside of the car using multiple antennas. I'm assuming UWB will do the same as they are moving to using UWB for the physical fobs itself. So things like preventing locking your key/phone in the car depend on this, and to only be able to start the car if the key/phone is inside of it. I suppose Tesla somewhat solves this with their auto locking capabilities, but if you forget your phone in the car that doesn't help.
I recently had a BMW rental and the auto locking when walking away was kinda neat, but it had two issues. I ended up having to listen and look back if the car actually locked and every time I happened to walk by the car it unlocked again. For example at one point I had to walk down the street to the central parking meter so the car locked, but then when I walked back past the car it unlocked again. That was kinda unnerving, because it made me unsure if the car was actually locked when I finally walked away. Not truly fond of this I have to say. I prefer to lock my car and get confirmation before I walk away and knowing that it stays locked, even if I just walk past it with my fob in my pocket.
I don’t think there is lot of Mercedes buyers with cheap android or old iOS devices, they can default to key fob.
which auto lock isn’t something Germans would ever do Phone key is important today.
I don’t think there is lot of Mercedes buyers with cheap android or old iOS devices, they can default to key fob.
which auto lock isn’t something Germans would ever do Phone key is important today.
Not sure about that. I still have an iPhone XS which doesn't support UWB for example. There just hasn't been a compelling reason to upgrade and my battery capacity is still over 80%. Outside of the folks who just have to have the latest phone, there's less and less of a reason for many to upgrade, especially since as opposed to Android, the latest iOS supports older phones for many years.
Not sure about that. I still have an iPhone XS which doesn't support UWB for example. There just hasn't been a compelling reason to upgrade and my battery capacity is still over 80%. Outside of the folks who just have to have the latest phone, there's less and less of a reason for many to upgrade, especially since as opposed to Android, the latest iOS supports older phones for many years.
Wouldn’t you like the convenience? You are gonna eventually buy a newer phone and older one would never be in consideration. With your car you can use the key now then when you update to a newer phone you’re car would still be compatible.
additionally with your iPhone XS you can unlock and drive away by setting your carkey to express mode.
as opposed to Android, the latest iOS supports older phones for many years.
Just a minor point, and not trying to start a flame war, but many flagship and upper-tier Android devices are now supported between 5-7 years, which for the most cases is, at the moment, beyond what Apple will intend to support legacy iPhone devices.
Wouldn’t you like the convenience? You are gonna eventually buy a newer phone and older one would never be in consideration. With your car you can use the key now then when you update to a newer phone you’re car would still be compatible.
additionally with your iPhone XS you can unlock and drive away by setting your carkey to express mode.
Technically sure and it would actually be a reason to upgrade the phone. However, for me personally it doesn't add much convenience or solve a particular problem. I don't actually have a need to drive most days, so my key fob stays at home when I leave the house and I don't mind grabbing it when I do leave by car. I've mainly focused on getting rid of all my other keys. I no longer carry a key chain, so the key fob is the last physical key I still carry, but only when needed. Otherwise I have digital keys for my house and everywhere else I need to enter. Similar situation with my wallet. I leave it at home most of the time if I just walk out of the house. I live in a highly walkable area, so I'm already down to only having to carry my phone most days.
Last edited by superswiss; 11-01-2023 at 05:41 PM.
Technically sure and it would actually be a reason to upgrade the phone. However, for me personally it doesn't add much convenience or solve a particular problem. I don't actually have a need to drive most days, so my key fob stays at home when I leave the house and I don't mind grabbing it when I do leave by car. I've mainly focused on getting rid of all my other keys. I no longer carry a key chain, so the key fob is the last physical key I still carry, but only when needed. Otherwise I have digital keys for my house and everywhere else I need to enter. Similar situation with my wallet. I leave it at home most of the time if I just walk out of the house. I live in a highly walkable area, so I'm already down to only having to carry my phone most days.
same here, the only device that I end up having to carry is the keyfob and I drive quite a bit and end up walking in some RF heavy areas, this kills the key fob from time to time. The frustrating thing is when I have to use my phone to unlock and place key on pad to start the car.
same here, the only device that I end up having to carry is the keyfob and I drive quite a bit and end up walking in some RF heavy areas, this kills the key fob from time to time. The frustrating thing is when I have to use my phone to unlock and place key on pad to start the car.
why even have the key if tech allows for it.
Yeah, if I had issues with the key fob and had to use the phone to get into the car then I would probably feel the same way, but I never had the fob not working. It just stays in my pocket unobtrusive, so I don't even think about it. The phone is frankly somewhat more unpractical, because I have to take it out of my pants to be comfortable in the car. The key fob doesn't bother me at all.
I just took delivery of an EQE SUV 500 and read about setting up the "Digital Key" in the user manual. In the manual, I encountered: "Mercedes Benz recommends that you have an emergency key with you" in case of problems. Upon reading this, I decided to simply skip all the Digital Key stuff and not bother setting it up. My use case was not that strong and why use the technology if you can't trust it and have to carry a physical key with you anyway? My default is to always carry the key fob, since I do not find this inconvenient in the least.
Perhaps my thinking on this has evolved, however, to the point where I might find it worthwhile to setup up the digital key to use in limited, specific circumstances. Example - going to the gym today. Despite the efforts of some gyms to provide secure storage for things like wallets and keys, gyms are still notorious locations for theft. How easy it would be to steal a set of MB car keys, go out to the gym parking lot and find a new Mercedes there and drive it away? Would insurance even cover such a theft, if the thief stole the car using the keys?? For such a scenario, using a digital key might give me greater peace-of-mind. In the rare case of the digital key not working, I could take a taxi or bus home and get my key fob. A PITA, but not all that bad a workaround in the big scheme of things.
What happens if you have BOTH the digital key and the fob in your pockets when you approach the car? Is there potential for it to get "confused"?
Maybe I'm missing something about the pros & cons of using the (non 2024) digital key. Would love to hear further thoughts from others!
10-26-2023, 06:45 PM
