Just got 2023 EQS580 SUV
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
Are any of you MY24 EQS SUV owners that include a heat pump, larger 118 kWh battery, and the front axle clutch-disconnect seeing this much of a drop-off in cold weather?
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in my case, I am seeing 40-50% range loss in -10C weather and driving in a lot of stop and go traffic or cruising at 125kph. Range is better at higher temps and when traffic is not terrible and/or lower highway speeds.
Also, front clutch disconnect I believe is on the 2023MY. At least I can see that at times it’s just the rear wheels, or front wheels, driving.
Larger batt will obviously give you more range, at the expense of longer charge times.
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You need to clarify “cold weather” and the type of driving.
in my case, I am seeing 40-50% range loss in -10C weather and driving in a lot of stop and go traffic or cruising at 125kph. Range is better at higher temps and when traffic is not terrible and/or lower highway speeds.
Also, front clutch disconnect I believe is on the 2023MY. At least I can see that at times it’s just the rear wheels, or front wheels, driving.
Larger batt will obviously give you more range, at the expense of longer charge times.
in my case, I am seeing 40-50% range loss in -10C weather and driving in a lot of stop and go traffic or cruising at 125kph. Range is better at higher temps and when traffic is not terrible and/or lower highway speeds.
Also, front clutch disconnect I believe is on the 2023MY. At least I can see that at times it’s just the rear wheels, or front wheels, driving.
Larger batt will obviously give you more range, at the expense of longer charge times.
As for cold weather, it's cold now in the North East (20s and 30s) and loss of range happens. I was asking those with MY24 EQS SUV's how they're doing with range. If you don't own a MY24 (or a MY25) EQS SUV, the question would not apply to you.
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Thanks but I’ll reply anyway.
None of those changes will make a perceptible difference to range; obviously the larger battery will but don’t underestimate the longer charging time - it’s not a free range increase.
I chose to get 30% off and got a ‘23 vs paying full MSRP for a ‘24.
None of those changes will make a perceptible difference to range; obviously the larger battery will but don’t underestimate the longer charging time - it’s not a free range increase.
I chose to get 30% off and got a ‘23 vs paying full MSRP for a ‘24.
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2023 EQS580 SUV, 2010 S550 4M,2004 S430 4Matic(traded), 2024 GLE350 (traded), 2020 GLS450(traded)
MN Winter Range
Thanks but I’ll reply anyway.
None of those changes will make a perceptible difference to range; obviously the larger battery will but don’t underestimate the longer charging time - it’s not a free range increase.
I chose to get 30% off and got a ‘23 vs paying full MSRP for a ‘24.
None of those changes will make a perceptible difference to range; obviously the larger battery will but don’t underestimate the longer charging time - it’s not a free range increase.
I chose to get 30% off and got a ‘23 vs paying full MSRP for a ‘24.
Anyway, I knew the range would be definitely reduced in the winter here... Nothing surprises, just want to track it and average out for Jan & Feb months, so far it's cold here now.
Will pose the real-time average for Jan and Feb. Still love my EQS, but definitely limited for long distance road trips in the winter.
Just another observation: winter charging is slowing too; average around 60-75 kWh vs 85-160 kWh in the summer. Is this normal charge in the winter or due to new battery? just wait and see.
Last edited by phillip04S430; Jan 6, 2025 at 12:00 AM. Reason: typos
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This is likely because - in very cold temperatures (as you're likely experiencing in Toronto at the moment) - your car's cabin heater will use a lot of electricity, just to keep the driver warm. (This is a drawback of EVs compared to an ICE vehicle: you don't have the engine's waste heat to use to help heat the cabin.)
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
MY24 owners with heat pumps, what are your results in cold weather? While there will still be a drop in range, the heat pump should help.
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The heat pump, front axle disconnect and larger 118 kWh battery were not on the MY23's, they were added starting with the MY24 models.
As for cold weather, it's cold now in the North East (20s and 30s) and loss of range happens. I was asking those with MY24 EQS SUV's how they're doing with range. If you don't own a MY24 (or a MY25) EQS SUV, the question would not apply to you.
As for cold weather, it's cold now in the North East (20s and 30s) and loss of range happens. I was asking those with MY24 EQS SUV's how they're doing with range. If you don't own a MY24 (or a MY25) EQS SUV, the question would not apply to you.
I have a 24 EQS and a 23 EQE and I can tell the range does not drop in the EQS as it does in the EQE, It’s quite significant.. I don't know that is a fair comparison.
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
Powertrain Updates:
◯ All-new braking system for improved brake feel with revised regenerative braking software
◯ 4MATIC Disconnect for real-life range improvement on 4MATIC models.
◯ Heat Pump for improved real-life winter driving efficiency
◯ All-New Battery with 118 kWh usable capacity for improved range
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This is really just marketing and the range difference will be minimal.
Let's go through each change:
◯ All-new braking system for improved brake feel with revised regenerative braking software
Braking feel is not the issue. The real issue is the brakes are far too weak. This is the single biggest flaw with the EQS - the brakes are terrible. Again, it has nothing to do with feel, the brakes are just too small for the weight of the vehicle. Perhaps the 580 is different, I'm referring to the 450. In any case, this has no effect on range anyway.
◯ 4MATIC Disconnect for real-life range improvement on 4MATIC models.
Electric motors have very low drag (reciprocating mass), much lower than gas engines. As a result, I doubt this feature will even be measurable in terms of range reduction. And now you have a set of e-clutches that are repeatedly disconnecting/reconnecting, which is another potential failure. If you look at the power flow, the motors are being connected/disconnected repeatedly.
◯ Heat Pump for improved real-life winter driving efficiency
Maybe, but the main benefit of a heat pump is faster cabin heating. The 2023 model heats up really fast.
◯ All-New Battery with 118 kWh usable capacity for improved range
Yes, but it's going to be a heavier battery, which will decrease range. And again, it will take longer to charge. This may seem obvious and irrelevant but if you've owned an EV and have sat waiting for the batt to charge, you know what I mean. The issue is because it takes 4X longer to charge than it does to use the energy.
In one hour with a L2 charger, you get about 7 kW. That 7 kW is consumed in about 25 km of driving, which you can do in 15 minutes.
So to charge the extra 18 kW, it will take about 2.5 hours, for a range increase of about 50km, or 30 min of highway driving, less the weight impact of the heavier battery.
Taken together, there is nothing here to significantly improve range in winter.
Let's go through each change:
◯ All-new braking system for improved brake feel with revised regenerative braking software
Braking feel is not the issue. The real issue is the brakes are far too weak. This is the single biggest flaw with the EQS - the brakes are terrible. Again, it has nothing to do with feel, the brakes are just too small for the weight of the vehicle. Perhaps the 580 is different, I'm referring to the 450. In any case, this has no effect on range anyway.
◯ 4MATIC Disconnect for real-life range improvement on 4MATIC models.
Electric motors have very low drag (reciprocating mass), much lower than gas engines. As a result, I doubt this feature will even be measurable in terms of range reduction. And now you have a set of e-clutches that are repeatedly disconnecting/reconnecting, which is another potential failure. If you look at the power flow, the motors are being connected/disconnected repeatedly.
◯ Heat Pump for improved real-life winter driving efficiency
Maybe, but the main benefit of a heat pump is faster cabin heating. The 2023 model heats up really fast.
◯ All-New Battery with 118 kWh usable capacity for improved range
Yes, but it's going to be a heavier battery, which will decrease range. And again, it will take longer to charge. This may seem obvious and irrelevant but if you've owned an EV and have sat waiting for the batt to charge, you know what I mean. The issue is because it takes 4X longer to charge than it does to use the energy.
In one hour with a L2 charger, you get about 7 kW. That 7 kW is consumed in about 25 km of driving, which you can do in 15 minutes.
So to charge the extra 18 kW, it will take about 2.5 hours, for a range increase of about 50km, or 30 min of highway driving, less the weight impact of the heavier battery.
Taken together, there is nothing here to significantly improve range in winter.
Last edited by Surge; Jan 7, 2025 at 03:03 PM.
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
This is really just marketing and the range difference will be minimal.
Let's go through each change:
◯ All-new braking system for improved brake feel with revised regenerative braking software
Braking feel is not the issue. The real issue is the brakes are far too weak. This is the single biggest flaw with the EQS - the brakes are terrible. Again, it has nothing to do with feel, the brakes are just too small for the weight of the vehicle. Perhaps the 580 is different, I'm referring to the 450. In any case, this has no effect on range anyway.
◯ 4MATIC Disconnect for real-life range improvement on 4MATIC models.
Electric motors have very low drag (reciprocating mass), much lower than gas engines. As a result, I doubt this feature will even be measurable in terms of range reduction. And now you have a set of e-clutches that are repeatedly disconnecting/reconnecting, which is another potential failure. If you look at the power flow, the motors are being connected/disconnected repeatedly.
◯ Heat Pump for improved real-life winter driving efficiency
Maybe, but the main benefit of a heat pump is faster cabin heating. The 2023 model heats up really fast.
◯ All-New Battery with 118 kWh usable capacity for improved range
Yes, but it's going to be a heavier battery, which will decrease range. And again, it will take longer to charge. This may seem obvious and irrelevant but if you've owned an EV and have sat waiting for the batt to charge, you know what I mean. The issue is because it takes 4X longer to charge than it does to use the energy.
In one hour with a L2 charger, you get about 7 kW. That 7 kW is consumed in about 25 km of driving, which you can do in 15 minutes.
So to charge the extra 18 kW, it will take about 2.5 hours, for a range increase of about 50km, or 30 min of highway driving, less the weight impact of the heavier battery.
Taken together, there is nothing here to significantly improve range in winter.
Let's go through each change:
◯ All-new braking system for improved brake feel with revised regenerative braking software
Braking feel is not the issue. The real issue is the brakes are far too weak. This is the single biggest flaw with the EQS - the brakes are terrible. Again, it has nothing to do with feel, the brakes are just too small for the weight of the vehicle. Perhaps the 580 is different, I'm referring to the 450. In any case, this has no effect on range anyway.
◯ 4MATIC Disconnect for real-life range improvement on 4MATIC models.
Electric motors have very low drag (reciprocating mass), much lower than gas engines. As a result, I doubt this feature will even be measurable in terms of range reduction. And now you have a set of e-clutches that are repeatedly disconnecting/reconnecting, which is another potential failure. If you look at the power flow, the motors are being connected/disconnected repeatedly.
◯ Heat Pump for improved real-life winter driving efficiency
Maybe, but the main benefit of a heat pump is faster cabin heating. The 2023 model heats up really fast.
◯ All-New Battery with 118 kWh usable capacity for improved range
Yes, but it's going to be a heavier battery, which will decrease range. And again, it will take longer to charge. This may seem obvious and irrelevant but if you've owned an EV and have sat waiting for the batt to charge, you know what I mean. The issue is because it takes 4X longer to charge than it does to use the energy.
In one hour with a L2 charger, you get about 7 kW. That 7 kW is consumed in about 25 km of driving, which you can do in 15 minutes.
So to charge the extra 18 kW, it will take about 2.5 hours, for a range increase of about 50km, or 30 min of highway driving, less the weight impact of the heavier battery.
Taken together, there is nothing here to significantly improve range in winter.
The larger battery pack is mainly improved chemistry, and the curb weight is only 99 lbs. heavier than the MY23 curb weight. The added weight is negligible IMO.
The charge time to 80% SoC for a lager battery pack wouldn't be noticeable when charging at home on a L2. And even if you did charge to 100% SoC, that would happen at night while you're sleeping.
And in the end, only someone who actually owns a MY24 EQS SUV with these improvements can definitively comment on improved range during winter. Not you or I, we're just bystanders with MY23's.
I'm probably wasting my time but couldn't help myself.
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Before i got an EV I had similar thoughts about charging times. Now that I have one, the reality has set in when I drove to my cottage (200km) with barely sufficient charge, then had to return home the same day. Sitting there waiting for the battery to charge (L2, 7.3kWh) made me realize that battery capacity is not a panacea to range issues.
Again, it takes about 4X as long to charge as it does to use that energy.
You can assume it will be while you’re sleeping, but not always!
Again, it takes about 4X as long to charge as it does to use that energy.
You can assume it will be while you’re sleeping, but not always!
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Our ChargePoint Flex Level 2 charger provides a 9.7 kWh charge to our EQS 580 SUV which is the max AC charge it will accept. We generally plug in between 6 and 9 PM when it's close to 20% SoC and it always finishes charging to 80% SoC very early in the morning, long before we're up. And we rarely use public charging, but when we need to travel, it will be helpful to have access to Tesla Superchargers, which are much more plentiful in the areas we usually travel. CCS equipped DC Fast Chargers are very sparse in our area.
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2023 EQS580 SUV, 2010 S550 4M,2004 S430 4Matic(traded), 2024 GLE350 (traded), 2020 GLS450(traded)
Experincing MN extreme winter COLD and EVs:
Experincing MN extreme winter COLD and EVs:
Driving EQS-SUV is best at favorable outside temp's... NOT for the extreme heat or COLD. Of course, I still love to drive EQS so far; there is a BUT right? Yes, but the brutal torture extreme COLD in the last few days, make it very tough to keep up with charges... slow... 20, 30, or 40 kWh per 30-minute intervals vs 60-80 kWh in the summer... efficiency is taking the nose-dive about 1.5-2 mile per kWh... Therefore, trying to keep up with range requirement for daily commutes and errants, I have to charge it two times 30-minutes free charge at EA... yes, I am taking advantage of the 2-year free charge from MB and still NO level-2 home charging (only Level-1 here and there top-up). Just my own 1st year experiences with EQS and MN winter. What's a double-dipper yet!!! Maybe the third one... a glitch warning here and a warning there due to the extreme COLD weather, -21 temp and -40s wind-chill last night... yay. Summary, It's somewhat tolerable ENNOYING yet; just Can't wait for warmer weather.
Driving EQS-SUV is best at favorable outside temp's... NOT for the extreme heat or COLD. Of course, I still love to drive EQS so far; there is a BUT right? Yes, but the brutal torture extreme COLD in the last few days, make it very tough to keep up with charges... slow... 20, 30, or 40 kWh per 30-minute intervals vs 60-80 kWh in the summer... efficiency is taking the nose-dive about 1.5-2 mile per kWh... Therefore, trying to keep up with range requirement for daily commutes and errants, I have to charge it two times 30-minutes free charge at EA... yes, I am taking advantage of the 2-year free charge from MB and still NO level-2 home charging (only Level-1 here and there top-up). Just my own 1st year experiences with EQS and MN winter. What's a double-dipper yet!!! Maybe the third one... a glitch warning here and a warning there due to the extreme COLD weather, -21 temp and -40s wind-chill last night... yay. Summary, It's somewhat tolerable ENNOYING yet; just Can't wait for warmer weather.
Last edited by phillip04S430; Jan 21, 2025 at 10:48 PM. Reason: typos
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
That is exactly why Mercedes added a heat-pump to the MY24 models. The MY23 models do not have a heat-pump and experience a noticeable drop in efficiency in very cold weather.
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No, the heat pump will make very little difference to range. I don't think you understand how a heat pump works and what its limitations are. Its main benefit is to heat the cabin faster. This is not an issue with the '23 models: cabin heating is very fast.
Heat pumps are all about heating the cabin, and where the heat comes from to heat the cabin. To prove that the impact on range is minor, try this: go into the EQ menu and look at the increase in range from lowering cabin temperature. You will see that you get maybe 1% additional range.
I'm glad that @phillip04S430 pointed out the slower charge time -- it's much slower than in summer!
Heat pumps are all about heating the cabin, and where the heat comes from to heat the cabin. To prove that the impact on range is minor, try this: go into the EQ menu and look at the increase in range from lowering cabin temperature. You will see that you get maybe 1% additional range.
I'm glad that @phillip04S430 pointed out the slower charge time -- it's much slower than in summer!
Last edited by Surge; Jan 22, 2025 at 09:20 AM.
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
For 2024, the EQE and EQS are both getting a standard heat pump – a far more efficient way to heat the vehicle than a conventional heater. Because electric cars don’t have an engine that generates a massive amount of excess heat which can be diverted to warm up the cabin, they have to generate heat themselves. Instead of an electric heater, a heat pump sort of acts like an air conditioning unit in reverse – amplifying and transferring heat from the surrounding environment into the cabin. The EQE and EQS’ new heat pumps mean that they can warm up occupants faster and more efficiently, while using less energy than before.
4Matic models of the EQE and EQS sedan and SUV also get new programming for the electronic all-wheel drive system. The system, which uses dual motors – one on the front axle and one on the rear – now has an all-wheel drive disconnect feature, which switches off one of the motors when it’s not needed. This reduces power consumption with no penalty to traction. Unlike a gasoline engine, an electric motor can switch on instantaneously when needed to power the extra wheels in slippery conditions.
https://www.greencars.com/news/merce...t%20themselves.
4Matic models of the EQE and EQS sedan and SUV also get new programming for the electronic all-wheel drive system. The system, which uses dual motors – one on the front axle and one on the rear – now has an all-wheel drive disconnect feature, which switches off one of the motors when it’s not needed. This reduces power consumption with no penalty to traction. Unlike a gasoline engine, an electric motor can switch on instantaneously when needed to power the extra wheels in slippery conditions.
https://www.greencars.com/news/merce...t%20themselves.
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Yes, exactly. But it does not make a big difference to range. Today is about -15C here. I will take a photo of the range increase if I shut off the cabin HVAC completely, so you can see that even with no heat, the range impact is not significant.
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....I'm glad that @phillip04S430 pointed out the slower charge time -- it's much slower than in summer!
Last edited by LAZARU5; Jan 22, 2025 at 11:49 AM.
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26 EQS 400 SUV, 23 EQS 580 SUV (sold), 19 X7 (sold), 17/14 GLS550 (sold), 13 GL550 (sold)
Also from Mercedes:
Heat pump: the air-side heat pump in the new model family can utilize the heat generated by the drive system and the heat present in the outside air in parallel to heat the interior. Thanks to its outstanding efficiency, it can significantly increase the range of the battery in colder regions of the world, for example. In this process, the multi-source heat pump draws heat from the ambient air via an external heat exchanger.
Heat pump: the air-side heat pump in the new model family can utilize the heat generated by the drive system and the heat present in the outside air in parallel to heat the interior. Thanks to its outstanding efficiency, it can significantly increase the range of the battery in colder regions of the world, for example. In this process, the multi-source heat pump draws heat from the ambient air via an external heat exchanger.
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2023 EQS580 SUV, 2010 S550 4M,2004 S430 4Matic(traded), 2024 GLE350 (traded), 2020 GLS450(traded)
My driving style and comfort set up have not changed much different from my S550; I set auto temp about 69-71 degrees and auto headlights. Driving EQS-SUV has been so pleasant and one of the best invention of automotive technological marvels. As an EE back ground, I called it a luxurious high-end PC on wheels; Moor's law. That's why I leased this EV and will lease the next EV with a significant improvement on battery and technology. So far, I am not sacrifying any comfort at all for saving the range, just improving my learning curve and adapting to EV driving style; Yes, it's undenial of occasionally range-anxiety here and there when the remaining range droping below 20% and 20-30 miles away from home. Just my own experiment tolerances,
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EV Database website has interesting info on cold verses warm weather range. It was somewhat of a surpirse to me that city driving is more greatly affected than highway driving. I guess that's because regen is less efficient in cold too. You might also want to check with you utility when on and off-peak rates are in effect. One advantage for me here in Texas is 10AM to 6PM is off-peak in the winter so I can charge at home cheap during the day. In summer I can only charge at night cheaply.
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Every proper EV includes a heat-pump to help warm the cabin and the BATTERY which is crucial in cold weather. Our MY23 EQS SUV's of course do not have a heat pump so we're seeing a greater decline in range compared to newer models with a heat-pump, regardless of what some on this forum are posting. Simply put, Mercedes had no choice but to add heat-pumps to their entire EV lineup to complete with the competition. Their next generation of EV's will improve on their heat-pumps and other technologies to improve range, especially in very cold weather. That is the goal of every EV company.
Speaking of tech, watch this video of the Electirc powertrain developed by Lucid. Impressive technology:
Speaking of tech, watch this video of the Electirc powertrain developed by Lucid. Impressive technology:
