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"Some experts believe to accommodate a fully electrified vehicle fleet, at least $20 to $30 billion will have to be invested over the next 10 years."
So if that happens, either the taxpayers are going pay for it or the government will continue to print money, causing inflation which is a tax on all of us and particularly hits low-income households. Maybe private companies will install charging stations if they can make a profit. We'll see. Enjoy it while you can.
I think this is bull****. If Tesla did it with private money, then anyone can do it. The cars will create the demand and the market will respond.
I can see that private money will build charging stations and make a profit from those. But to do that, they will have to get approval from local and federal governments to connect into the power grid. There will need to be a huge amount of money spent upgrading and refurbishing the current power grid that is already struggling with demand. Wind and solar will not be enough. I don't see private money building power generation stations.
The government will have to build new power generation stations that run on fossil or nuclear fuels to power all the EVs. That may mean opening up the Keystone pipeline, drilling and building new pumping stations for natural gas. And recall that it takes a huge amount of fossil fuel energy to mine and proceed for the precious metal in all those batteries. And then there is the disposal and recycling problem.
EVs are fine, but it will be a very long time until we are off of fossil fuels. It will take a major breakthrough in battery technology, maybe cold fusion, hydrogen power, new nuclear plants or something that we have not yet discovered to really make a difference. In the meantime, I think that a mild-hybrid engine like Mercedes' 53-series M256 engine is the best answer for now, at least for me.
I can see that private money will build charging stations and make a profit from those. But to do that, they will have to get approval from local and federal governments to connect into the power grid. There will need to be a huge amount of money spent upgrading and refurbishing the current power grid that is already struggling with demand. Wind and solar will not be enough. I don't see private money building power generation stations.
The government will have to build new power generation stations that run on fossil or nuclear fuels to power all the EVs. That may mean opening up the Keystone pipeline, drilling and building new pumping stations for natural gas. And recall that it takes a huge amount of fossil fuel energy to mine and proceed for the precious metal in all those batteries. And then there is the disposal and recycling problem.
EVs are fine, but it will be a very long time until we are off of fossil fuels. It will take a major breakthrough in battery technology, maybe cold fusion, hydrogen power, new nuclear plants or something that we have not yet discovered to really make a difference. In the meantime, I think that a mild-hybrid engine like Mercedes' 53-series M256 engine is the best answer for now, at least for me.
Powergeneration capacity isn't going to be an issue given the growth rate of solar.
Powergeneration capacity isn't going to be an issue given the growth rate of solar.
You are drinking the Kool-Aid. There's no way. Have you calculated the effect on climate of taking all that wind and solar energy from of the surface of the earth and converting it to manufacture the solar cells, upgrade the power grid and power all those EVs?
Seriously, be rational and logical. Think of all the existing infrastructure that supports our current economy -- the LNG ships, the gas and oil pipelines, the tanker trucks, and the 10s of thousands of gas stations. You really think that by 2030 or so that all of this will be replaced by solar energy? It may happen sometime, but not anytime soon. It can happen gradually, but in the meantime, we better hope that we have plenty of fossil fuel energy available and that we can return to being energy independent in spite of the current administration's actions which now are asking Arab states to increase oil production while killing ours. Here you go. You read it here first:
There are plenty of places on the Internet where people can post their political views. Personally, I enjoy reading these forums to learn about Mercedes vehicles. I'm not interested in anyones political views. Hopefully we can keep it about Mercedes vehicles, after all, that's why they named it MBWorld.
There are plenty of places on the Internet where people can post their political views. Personally, I enjoy reading these forums to learn about Mercedes vehicles. I'm not interested in anyones political views. Hopefully we can keep it about Mercedes vehicles, after all, that's why they named it MBWorld.
Just my 2 cents, thanks.
Hi Joe. I did not post this thread for the purpose of politics, but rather to give potential Mercedes buyers a "heads-up" of factors that should be considered in the purchase of their vehicles. Personally, I do not consider the availability of charging stations as "bs" as one reply suggested. This is one factor that lead me to avoid a full EV at this time and instead opt for a mild-hybrid that does not depend on frequent charging. I apologize if I offended you and other forum members.
Hi Joe. I did not post this thread for the purpose of politics, but rather to give potential Mercedes buyers a "heads-up" of factors that should be considered in the purchase of their vehicles. Personally, I do not consider the availability of charging stations as "bs" as one reply suggested. This is one factor that lead me to avoid a full EV at this time and instead opt for a mild-hybrid that does not depend on frequent charging. I apologize if I offended you and other forum members.
the problem is that you don’t know what you are talking about, just like when you are commenting on Mercedes cars.
It's not for me at this time, but here is a link to info on a program in Colorado's Xcel Energy for installation, lease and payment for an in-home charger:
According to my electric bills the grid is a privately held resource.
Will it be seeing changes? oh hell ya. but what else is new?
distributed solar, distributed energy storage, aka tesla powerwalls back feeding the grid.
Oh and let's not forget wind which is developing massive ability to feed the grid. 100 of MWatts. approaching GWatts.
This is a power systems architects nightmare. Keeping this phase and load balanced is quite an adventure.
Assumptions about power flow direction is on it's head.
The older systems were fairly static entities. load was a fairly static entity as well. no more.
EV's change that story. so do little switchers charging you cell phone.
Battery storage will make a massive change as well.
and hey here's a prediction you can take to the bank, fractional rates.
Basically it means charging different rates for different grid load conditions.
let's say the grid is at 70% which is a good place, call that Rate X.
if the grid drops to 35% you might get charged .5X to encourage you to use power then.
If the grid approaches 90% you pay 1.5X. 95% 2x and 100% 10x
BTW if you remember the Texas freeze it went to 3000X
Now think for a moment, you have a big battery ( or other flavor of storage) array. you buy at .5X and sell back at 2X.
yup the grid is changing all right, and EVs are a little bit of this change.
. In the meantime, I think that a mild-hybrid engine like Mercedes' 53-series M256 engine is the best answer for now, at least for me.
Why buy a car that has the complexity of both an electric car and an ICE car? These make sense in some European cities where you are not (or will not be) able and enter with an ICE car, however, this is not the case in the US.
Why buy a car that has the complexity of both an electric car and an ICE car? These make sense in some European cities where you are not (or will not be) able and enter with an ICE car, however, this is not the case in the US.
Well, I get it -- but it depends on the driving conditions. I drive a lot in Colorado, Utah, Wyoming and Nevada where I can see a sign reading "No Services Next 113 Miles" even on Interstate I-70, let alone in rural areas of UT and NV. Sometimes it is difficult enough to plan ahead for the next gas station, let alone a Charging Station which at this time are few and far between.
I understand that if you are in an urban area an only travel 20 -30 miles a day and have a home charger, an EV would be OK. In that case, great -- do it. But for me and some others an EV is out of the question. With my CLS53's efficient straight-6 and 186 lb-ft of torque from the electric flywheel motor, I can cruise at 80mph with 32mpg and still have a 4.4 sec. 0-60 time in a luxury 4-door sedan. I expect performance close to that in the GLE53 that I have on order. And I don't have to worry about finding and waiting for a charging station. I expect things to change and I have confessed that someday I may have an EV, but that day is a long way off as I wait for battery technology to improve and for infrastructure upgrades to accommodate future demand.
2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
My suggestion has always been that an EV is most appropriate for multi-car families who also have an ICE or hybrid. If an EV is your only car, long trips had better be very rare...or you might want to consider renting an ICE for those occasions.
Hopefully it won't be too many years before MB owners can access a dramatically expanded Tesla charging network.
But will the grid be able to handle them and where will the energy come to power them? The wind does not always blow and the sun does not always shine. (Fossil fuels work well). Musk will need to pay local power companies for grid upgrades, for battery storage for night time and windless days and for power inverters to convert stored battery power back into the grid. This cost will be passed along to customers for his vehicles and users of the charging stations. There is no free lunch.
Most of these will probably go to China and India, the world's major polluters, where they can burn fossil fuels without significant consequences.
Yes, of course. But our economy for now, makes the world go round as we continue to reduce pollution. The USA is not opening a new fossil fuel power plant every week or so as China is doing. China will soon dominate the world economy (and military if we are not careful) while continuing to ignore the Paris Accord agreement.
China has been making big efforts to reduce their reliance on fossils fuels. Take a peak at Shanghai as an example.
I think they are so reliant imports for energy they ae trying to go CO2 free solutions, solar, wind etc.
And Yes, it seems that after the invention of fire man has optimized the consumption of fossils fuels.
SO I'm willing to give it a few years.
jump in about 2:00 minutes and look at the efficiencies of a gas engines.
An electric mill is substantially more productive in deploying power. It also is capable of recapturing spent energy.
I think they are so reliant imports for energy they ae trying to go CO2 free solutions, solar, wind etc.
And Yes, it seems that after the invention of fire man has optimized the consumption of fossils fuels.
SO I'm willing to give it a few years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hd-L6mhkCU
jump in about 2:00 minutes and look at the efficiencies of a gas engines.
An electric mill is substantially more productive in deploying power. It also is capable of recapturing spent energy.
Solar and wind to drive China's economy (and ours?)? Good luck with that.
And yes, I agree that an electric motor by it's self is more efficient than today's gasoline engine, but there is more to the story -- mining of precious metals, shortage of precious metal, reliance on other countries for precious metals, need to upgrade the already-over-taxed power grid, need to burn fossil fuels to supply power to the grid, inconvenience of waiting for a charge, battery storage inefficiency, battery life, battery disposal and recycling, etc. EVs have their place and if that is for you, great, go for it, but as I have suggested before, it will be a long time before we are off of fossil fuels. That's all. With the current hype over EVs and the demonizing of fossil fuels, I am reminded of the expression from a past stock market description, "Irrational Exuberance."
BTW -- as you may know, the MGU-H in the F1 engine is no longer used. See my comparison of F1 technology to the Mercedes mild-hybrid engine in the 53 and 450 series that use the M256 engine:
Yes, of course. But our economy for now, makes the world go round as we continue to reduce pollution. The USA is not opening a new fossil fuel power plant every week or so as China is doing. China will soon dominate the world economy (and military if we are not careful) while continuing to ignore the Paris Accord agreement.
Because it's the total amount of pollution being dumped into the atmosphere that matters and most of it comes from China. I do not or have not worked for an oil company. I have a plaque from the Air Force thanking me for making the world a safer place. I only use gasoline to enhance my evening cocktail and fuel my vehicles.
Going back to the original post topic. I believe the inference was that the $5billion wasn't enough to build out the infrastructure as required to support EV deployment.
I whole heartedly agree with one minor trivial detail. It ignores the opportunity presented to the private sector for investment.
I look at it and see a fertile field for investment. Powerlines are privately held. charging stations are generally privately held.
The beauty of a charging station is it has none of the nasty issue a gas station does like poisoning the water supply when it leaks.
Will there be underserved markets? sure, but don't expect 8¢ /Kw rates there either. it will be much higher but hey, that's fair market entrepreneurship.
08-25-2021 | 02:27 PM
