BYD vs. MB and Every Other EV Makers
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BYD vs. MB and Every Other EV Makers
Is BYD going to slaughter MB's EVs and every other EVs makers? I've been hearing a lot of "sensational" headlines, but I wanted to get a pulse on what you think BYD is capable of doing particularly to the MB EV segment. Please refrain from making too far into the future predictions without some data or personal experience with their existing vehicles.
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They are not yet a threat to the luxury segment as they pretty much compete at the low end undercutting the prices of European small cars. They are focused on Europe at the moment, partly because the EU only has a 10% import tariff for Chinese cars vs. the US's 27.5%. It comes down to whether the consumers buy them, and despite the Europeans being weary of Chinese products at the end of the day they buy them, because of the much cheaper costs while laden with features. The Chinese EV makers have now around 10% of the European EV market and growing, but again, it's at the low end of the market where people are much more cost conscious. I see them more of a threat to the Japanese brands. Just like Toyota has essentially taken much of the car market, the Chinese are poised to take that same market away from them, but Asian brands have never really managed to unseat the European luxury and performance brands. Geely is trying by buying European brands such as Lotus etc., but instead these brands are at the risk of going bankrupt. Lotus, Jaguar (yes I know that's Tata) etc. are not doing well. Neither is Polestar and other brands Geely gobbled up.
Last edited by superswiss; Mar 21, 2024 at 05:36 PM.
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I was in Italy (Rome (Lazio) and Tuscany region last week and spent a good 10+ hours driving and observing what people drive there. Mostly small compacts and Smart cars. I think EV would do very well in these conditions, but again, EV still has to compete with small engines and diesel engines which are very efficient. Aside from exhaust fumes, I'm don't know if EU folks would rush to get an EV to replace their compacts and diesel engines.
Would BYD compete with the likes of Kia and Hyundai EVs when they come to the US, and since BYD has a few intro luxury SUV and sedans, do you think they will take some market shares of the lower end MB EVs? If the politicians put a spin on preventing BYD from competing with American automakers, will EV technology get caught in the mess and discourages the typical American consumer? The Oil Association is already spinning the EPA mandate on EV and hybrids, political or not.
Would BYD compete with the likes of Kia and Hyundai EVs when they come to the US, and since BYD has a few intro luxury SUV and sedans, do you think they will take some market shares of the lower end MB EVs? If the politicians put a spin on preventing BYD from competing with American automakers, will EV technology get caught in the mess and discourages the typical American consumer? The Oil Association is already spinning the EPA mandate on EV and hybrids, political or not.
Last edited by MB37; Mar 21, 2024 at 11:49 PM.
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Here in Israel you see a lot of BYD cars as well as the others. I don't know how luxurious they are but they look good.
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I live in China and have personally observed BYD's progress in the past decade. They initially manufactured batteries and then turned their focus to electric buses. Their EVs for the mass consumer market were once deemed cheap, lack of technologies and hideous.
About 3-4 years ago, BYD began to replace Chinese exterior design teams with European designers as they became aware of their biggest weakness. Sales began to skyrocket because of the value for money BYD was able to offer - they had ~70% of components manufactured in-house incl. high voltage batteries and control units.
In the last years, they surpassed Tesla to become the top selling EV brand in the world.
However, to this day a lot of consumers and media in China still think that BYD is behind competition in 1) autonomous driving, 2) software engineering / infotainment, 3) interior design and 4) brand prestige. The fact is that BYD is doing exceptionally well in car hailing business - making potential buyers think twice about if they would like to have the same car as taxis running around the city. This may not make sense for North American consumers. However, in the Chinese market lots of people buy new cars so that they can brag about it in front of friends and relatives.
About 3-4 years ago, BYD began to replace Chinese exterior design teams with European designers as they became aware of their biggest weakness. Sales began to skyrocket because of the value for money BYD was able to offer - they had ~70% of components manufactured in-house incl. high voltage batteries and control units.
In the last years, they surpassed Tesla to become the top selling EV brand in the world.
However, to this day a lot of consumers and media in China still think that BYD is behind competition in 1) autonomous driving, 2) software engineering / infotainment, 3) interior design and 4) brand prestige. The fact is that BYD is doing exceptionally well in car hailing business - making potential buyers think twice about if they would like to have the same car as taxis running around the city. This may not make sense for North American consumers. However, in the Chinese market lots of people buy new cars so that they can brag about it in front of friends and relatives.
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I live in China and have personally observed BYD's progress in the past decade. They initially manufactured batteries and then turned their focus to electric buses. Their EVs for the mass consumer market were once deemed cheap, lack of technologies and hideous.
About 3-4 years ago, BYD began to replace Chinese exterior design teams with European designers as they became aware of their biggest weakness. Sales began to skyrocket because of the value for money BYD was able to offer - they had ~70% of components manufactured in-house incl. high voltage batteries and control units.
In the last years, they surpassed Tesla to become the top selling EV brand in the world.
However, to this day a lot of consumers and media in China still think that BYD is behind competition in 1) autonomous driving, 2) software engineering / infotainment, 3) interior design and 4) brand prestige. The fact is that BYD is doing exceptionally well in car hailing business - making potential buyers think twice about if they would like to have the same car as taxis running around the city. This may not make sense for North American consumers. However, in the Chinese market lots of people buy new cars so that they can brag about it in front of friends and relatives.
About 3-4 years ago, BYD began to replace Chinese exterior design teams with European designers as they became aware of their biggest weakness. Sales began to skyrocket because of the value for money BYD was able to offer - they had ~70% of components manufactured in-house incl. high voltage batteries and control units.
In the last years, they surpassed Tesla to become the top selling EV brand in the world.
However, to this day a lot of consumers and media in China still think that BYD is behind competition in 1) autonomous driving, 2) software engineering / infotainment, 3) interior design and 4) brand prestige. The fact is that BYD is doing exceptionally well in car hailing business - making potential buyers think twice about if they would like to have the same car as taxis running around the city. This may not make sense for North American consumers. However, in the Chinese market lots of people buy new cars so that they can brag about it in front of friends and relatives.
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I think I read somewhere that climate objectives are achievable only with vehicles produced by domestic manufacturers who employ union labor that supports politicians who believe in climate change.
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This is how the CPP spies on America. They want to release millions of these EV into the US so American can drive them around our cities so it can collect data. This is one way the CPP take over America without firing a single bullet. Look at all the companies owned by Chinese. Anyhow, anything made by Chinese owned companies are garbage anyway. I wouldn't buy a Tesla why would anyone want to but a BYD. Build your dream my a$$! more like a nightmare.
Last edited by 23-EQS580-SUV; Mar 25, 2024 at 10:22 AM.
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Don't believe the racist anti-Chinese conspiracy theories you hear on the Interwebzes! 
China is a great country full of really nice people. And they make great EVs too!
China is a great country full of really nice people. And they make great EVs too!
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This is how the CPP spies on America. They want to release millions of these EV into the US so American can drive them around our cities so it can collect data. This is one way the CPP take over America without firing a single bullet. Look at all the companies owned by Chinese. Anyhow, anything made by Chinese owned companies are garbage anyway. I wouldn't buy a Tesla why would anyone want to but a BYD. Build your dream my a$$! more like a nightmare.
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I'm not worried about China tracking me. They don't stage false-flag terror attacks and demolish skyscrapers like WTC7. China can be trusted. And did I mention they make great EVs too? Ths is waaaay better than a G wagen:
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I mean, if you want to save the planet from global warming you MUST allow China to flood the market with cheap EVs. If you don't sea levels will rise, Malibu will fall into the ocean and polar bears in Alaska will drown. I assure you I'm only promoting Chinese EVs to save the planet. It has absolutely nothing to do with Iran and Russia being dependent on oil money. 
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Crito, not sure if you actually have lived in a communist country before. Communism, in theory and philosophical terms, is a very sound governing concept for the general public. But for the learned philosophers and those who have live under the communist rule, there's a lot of dog and pony shows such as the ones you see and hear on Youtube and other outlets. And with current technologies, anything AV is possible.
The reality is that when the rubber meets the road, these tech fail on so many levels it would take another thread to go through the discussion. As an example, look at the first video about the floating car. That's great! The altruist motivate is clear. In real life, how many instance do you drive your car slowly into the water? A company showcasing such feature without thorough testing would never pass the democratic free market without scrutiny. It is very typical for Chinese companies to make claims a little bit over the top to make a buck, and altruism is thrown around like a rag doll.
Practical communism operates in similar matters. Promises the world but only delivers a small portion. Add human greed for power and you have today's communist rule in different variations. I speak from personal experience living under communist rule before and what I continue to see around the world.
The reality is that when the rubber meets the road, these tech fail on so many levels it would take another thread to go through the discussion. As an example, look at the first video about the floating car. That's great! The altruist motivate is clear. In real life, how many instance do you drive your car slowly into the water? A company showcasing such feature without thorough testing would never pass the democratic free market without scrutiny. It is very typical for Chinese companies to make claims a little bit over the top to make a buck, and altruism is thrown around like a rag doll.
Practical communism operates in similar matters. Promises the world but only delivers a small portion. Add human greed for power and you have today's communist rule in different variations. I speak from personal experience living under communist rule before and what I continue to see around the world.
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Like every other new car company, it takes about a decade (about 3 model cycles) before they get up to speed in the market. Honda and now Hyundai are good examples. At this time they are fighting it out on the price factor market.
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About 80% of the car market is basically a race to the bottom game. Growth can pretty much only be achieved by undercutting the competitors with lower prices. The remaining 20% is the luxury market and in the luxury market we have what's known as the Veblen Effect which describes the phenomenon that high prices often enhance the allure of the luxury goods, their exclusivity and prestige. The Koreans, Japanese and now the Chinese are competing in the race to the bottom as most car manufacturers do. The one with the lowest prices will win. These brands find it very hard to break into the luxury market w/o rebranding. This is how Lexus, Acura and Infinity were born specifically for the NA market, because nobody was willing to pay luxury car prices for a high spec Toyota, Honda or Nissan, so new brands were created to trick the buying public into thinking they were different cars. Hyundai did the same with Genesis. At some point BYD may do the same and come out with a luxury brand.
EDIT: Actually forgot that they already have one, Yangwang. It's a luxury electric brand owned by BYD.
EDIT: Actually forgot that they already have one, Yangwang. It's a luxury electric brand owned by BYD.
Last edited by superswiss; Mar 27, 2024 at 12:40 PM.
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About 80% of the car market is basically a race to the bottom game. Growth can pretty much only be achieved by undercutting the competitors with lower prices. The remaining 20% is the luxury market and in the luxury market we have what's known as the Veblen Effect which describes the phenomenon that high prices often enhance the allure of the luxury goods, their exclusivity and prestige. The Koreans, Japanese and now the Chinese are competing in the race to the bottom as most car manufacturers do. The one with the lowest prices will win. These brands find it very hard to break into the luxury market w/o rebranding. This is how Lexus, Acura and Infinity were born specifically for the NA market, because nobody was willing to pay luxury car prices for a high spec Toyota, Honda or Nissan, so new brands were created to trick the buying public into thinking they were different cars. Hyundai did the same with Genesis. At some point BYD may do the same and come out with a luxury brand.
EDIT: Actually forgot that they already have one, Yangwang. It's a luxury electric brand owned by BYD.
EDIT: Actually forgot that they already have one, Yangwang. It's a luxury electric brand owned by BYD.
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It sure does. A Mercedes-Benz/AMG is often more expensive than the comparable Audi or BMW as its direct competitor. MB is also not part of a larger group that also sells economy cars like Audi is. BMW is also more fundamentally a luxury brand. While Audi isn't quite like Lexus in terms of being just a brand to separate the higher priced models as it once was a standalone brand and later acquired by VW, but today's Audis are to some extent gold plated VWs. Even Bentley and Lambo are affected by this. It doesn't take long to spot VW parts in any of them. Just take a look at the pedal box in an Audi for example. Pretty much straight from a Golf, complete with hanging throttle pedal whereas MB and BMW use floor hinged throttle pedals that are more associated with race and performance cars and are known to give the driver a better feel. It's little details such as these that set them apart.
Last edited by superswiss; Mar 28, 2024 at 05:21 PM.
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Mercedes needs China WAAAAY more than China needs Mercedes. Legacy auto better hope they don't reciprocate with sanctions and tariffs. In any case, there are options other than China for those of us who don't want to be genocide enablers:
