AppleFan1

That makes sense. Thanks.

streborx

This type of installation usually requires the homeowner or the electrical contractor to obtain a permit through the local or state permitting agency so that the work can be independently inspected for compliance with building codes. Installing an AC power outlet of any voltage/current without an electrical box in which wiring is terminated and secured, and to which the outlet is electrically and mechanically attached is a gross violation of electrical code. When hiring a contractor, insist on receiving the permit document before work begins.

Viper98912

The term "hard wiring" means that the wires coming directly from the circuit breaker are directly attached to the unit (in this case, the charger). This means that there's no plugs or outlets to connect or disconnect.

MB37

If there were no box, how was the female plug secured onto the wall?

hlothery

It was secured to the drywall with a metal cover on the outside. Unless there was a plastic housing, which burned up (possible), there was nothing behind it. It was not attached to the struts of the wall in any way. I, obviously, didn't know this until after the fire. I don't know code standards, but I doubt this would have met code. The contractor was supposed to have gotten a permit. I left that up to them. Many lessons learned here, and failures which will not be repeated.

MB37

I would be mad a hell since I have had many dealings with contractors. They come in all flavors and colors of the rainbow when it comes to cutting corners to save time or make a quick buck. The box must be metal. As mentioned above, commercial hardware is much more reliable than residential ones. The only difference between the 6-50 and 14-50 is the the latter has a neutral wire which makes it more versatile for EV charging. Wire gauge of 6 AWG is required for 50 amps. Check what size was your wiring to the plug.

Fire are often started because the wires were not torqued properly to the plug (creating arcs over time). Since you don't plug and unplug often at all, most likely cause is improper torquing of the wire connection to the plug. I suspect that a box was not used because 6 AWG are thick and very difficult to handle, and the installer cut corners by not installing a metal box to house the plug. Do you have drywall in your garage or exposed studs?

jcapotos

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After reading this thread, I went out to my garage to see what receptacle my licensed electrician used for my installation. Surprise...Surprise they used a Home Depot brand "Pass & Seymour" an $8 item! I immediately arranged with a new licensed electrician to replace my Nema 14-50 with a HUBBELL commercial-grade receptacle. Although I have had this receptacle for 5 years, I would rather be overly cautious and get piece of mind. Thanks everyone for your input.

streborx

Likely the insurance adjuster will do some post mortem investigation into the suspected cause. Adequate wire gauge is critical, but the possible lack of the proper electrical box to secure the cable to receptacle and receptacle to charger plug could have caused the connections to work loose over time. Will be interesting to learn the final verdict. It never pays to go cheap when AC power is involved.

MB37

I recommend this video in an age when most people think bigger is better. He talks about a reasonable and realistic implementation of EV charger based on your individual needs.

hlothery

Update: My contractor electrician friend just left. He looked at everything. First, I was wrong, there was a plastic housing, which either melted or burned away. He said the NEMA 6/50 was the definite culprit, was not very well made. He cut back on the cable about 8 inches and it looked good. It was #8, rated for 240v, 55amp, 90 degrees Celcius and for in wall installation. He felt the remaining cable was fine. He checked and verified the breaker function. He then looked at the ChargePoint, which did not suffer any damage except for the plug, and decided to try and hardwire it. He felt it was fine. So we did, and it is working fine, immediately logged onto my wifi, is currently charging my car at 9.4kW, and sending all the apropriate signals. This is a best case outcome, considering how close we came. Now I just need to get the drywall repaired and insulation replaced that the Fire Department cut back. There will be no insurance claim, so no investigation. I'm not into that. Were ordering an ozone generator and getting some charcoal to remove the smells (those lovely electrical fire smells!). Thanks for all your help and advice. This ended up working out about as well as a near disaster could possibly have done.
Addendum: he just called me back and said the 8awg cable is only rated at 40amps. So we've dialed back the ChargePoint to 30amps for now. Looks like I'll be changing the wire afterall.

streborx

You should demand a full refund from the dufus who did the original install. That he installed a 50 amp breaker with #8 cable into a plastic box should get his license revoked.

Glad the damage was minimal and that you can avoid an insurance claim.

hlothery

Apparently there are certain types of #8 wire which are rated to 55amps, 90C degrees, etc. Just not sure if mine is yet. My guy is coming back over to check that. I can't imagine a licensed electrician installing it if it was not rated to support the 50amp breaker. Unfortunately, I have used it for 21/2 years with no problems until the NEMA 6/50 plug failed Sunday, so no refund is probable. But I agree, I would rather have 6awg cable. Thanks for your help. At least we're charging (albeit 7.7kW currently - pun intended).

hlothery

So, as I'm repairing and recovering from all these events, I have a question. For those of you who already do have a smoke detector in your garage, has an ICE vehicle ever set the detector off?

SW20S

OMG! Thats terrifying. Glad you're okay, and glad you were home!

No, it never sets it off. It has to be pretty smoky to set it off.

hlothery

Thanks....yep, really scary. I can't seem to get that image of a smoke filled garage and flames from the wall out of my mind. A smoke detector would have warned me much earlier. I'll have one by tomorrow.

SW20S

I don’t blame you at all…that would be hard to get over.

Do you have nest or any other kind of smart home system? If so get one that communicates there so it can alert you.

hlothery

I'm not that advanced, unfortunately. But I believe I could have heard an audible smoke alarm, if I had had one. I will soon. Many lessons learned from this. Such a shame that folks you hire and pay a lot of money to do such shoddy work. That NEMA 6/50 install cost me over $2K. And, clearly, the plug was a cheapo, which failed. I have expertise in medicine....but had no idea about the charging parts and their issues. I do now! Hopefully now past all that. I still love my EQS! (But I'm very glad to still have my house!)

SW20S

Its terrible. I'm in the real estate and property management business, and there are so many people out there who charge a lot for really poor quality work...

I wonder how many "EV car fires" in peoples garages are actually caused by poor quality installation of the charger and not the car itself at all...

hlothery

Yea.....gotta admit, my first thought was the car was on fire and we have lost our house, cause you can't put that out. Luckily, the car had already stopped charging, as had the ChargePoint charger. But the cheapo 6/50 plug was going strong!

SW20S

I'm glad it turned out the way it did!

MB37

In defense of Leviton, they do make the WR (weather resistant) version which is about $53 for the outlet. This one is industrial grade and mainly use for RVs. Of course, Bryant is just as good. I think the key take aways are: 1. torquing the wire connection (71 lb/in), using at least 6 AWG wiring (despite 8 AWG rating for 55 amp, 90C),and using the right plug for the application. When you factor in continuous use application, the bigger wire will also present a better heat sink conduit. Also, a smoke detector for added safeguard should you need to go there. Of course, consult your trusted electrician for the panel and amp breaker size and choice.

hlothery

I'll decide soon whether I'll just keep what I have, and charge at a safer 32amp (7.7kW) rate, or upgrade to the 6AWG cable. If I short cycle, which has been touted on this forum as better for the battery, we're talking about an extra hour to charge my current EQS, which is no big deal. So I may just leave it. But, then, there is the future........

streborx

Installing smoke/CO2 detectors in garages seems to be controversial due to false alarms potential. Some recommend heat detectors. In any case, with an EV parked and charging, some type of abnormal state alarm system seems a good idea. The right way to do it is not with an isolated unit, but with an AC powered detector that ties into the whole house system. When the garage unit alarms, every in- house alarm sounds also. Wiring this in will cost more, but will ensure you don't sleep through an incident. Some local building codes require garage alarms in new construction, but don't require retrofitting existing structures. If I had an EV in my garage, there would definitely be smoke and heat detectors installed.

23-EQS580-SUV

Sorry to hear about your incident. All my EV friends call me paranode for installing smoke detector above the wall charger and the EV in the garage, all the smoke detectors are wireless connected together to the one inside the house. Everyone with EV should install these. Not expensive but give you piece of mind.

SW20S

I agree with the above, kind of the same thing I was getting at with the nest detector.

I’ve had a smoke detector in my garage for a long time and have never had any kind of false alarm. Unless you have a car in there that’s really smoking if the detector is operating properly it will be fine