Garage Charger Fire!
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yea, if you have to plug it in to use it, it is not hardwired. That is similar to my setup, except that mine was imbedded in the wall rather than attached on it. I think your setup is actually safer. My 6/50 plug had no backing...it was inside the wall with the wires up against the insulation. I doubt that was to code, but I have no idea. Anyway, next time the wire will enter the back of the box and be directly connected, without the need for a plug in. That is hard wired.
#27
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This type of installation usually requires the homeowner or the electrical contractor to obtain a permit through the local or state permitting agency so that the work can be independently inspected for compliance with building codes. Installing an AC power outlet of any voltage/current without an electrical box in which wiring is terminated and secured, and to which the outlet is electrically and mechanically attached is a gross violation of electrical code. When hiring a contractor, insist on receiving the permit document before work begins.
#28
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Call me dumb but I’m not positive if mine is hardwired or not. I think it is. Mine is also a Charge Point wall charger (I think a NEMA 5-50). It has its own circuit breaker. The wiring goes directly from the circuit breaker to the wall outlet that the electrician installed. The wiring is plastic wrapped and about 1.5” diameter. A thick electrical cord goes from the wall charger to the outlet when I’m charging the car. Here is a photo.
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AppleFan1 (05-28-2024)
#30
Super Member
Thread Starter
It was secured to the drywall with a metal cover on the outside. Unless there was a plastic housing, which burned up (possible), there was nothing behind it. It was not attached to the struts of the wall in any way. I, obviously, didn't know this until after the fire. I don't know code standards, but I doubt this would have met code. The contractor was supposed to have gotten a permit. I left that up to them. Many lessons learned here, and failures which will not be repeated.
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AppleFan1 (05-28-2024)
#31
I would be mad a hell since I have had many dealings with contractors. They come in all flavors and colors of the rainbow when it comes to cutting corners to save time or make a quick buck. The box must be metal. As mentioned above, commercial hardware is much more reliable than residential ones. The only difference between the 6-50 and 14-50 is the the latter has a neutral wire which makes it more versatile for EV charging. Wire gauge of 6 AWG is required for 50 amps. Check what size was your wiring to the plug.
Fire are often started because the wires were not torqued properly to the plug (creating arcs over time). Since you don't plug and unplug often at all, most likely cause is improper torquing of the wire connection to the plug. I suspect that a box was not used because 6 AWG are thick and very difficult to handle, and the installer cut corners by not installing a metal box to house the plug. Do you have drywall in your garage or exposed studs?
Fire are often started because the wires were not torqued properly to the plug (creating arcs over time). Since you don't plug and unplug often at all, most likely cause is improper torquing of the wire connection to the plug. I suspect that a box was not used because 6 AWG are thick and very difficult to handle, and the installer cut corners by not installing a metal box to house the plug. Do you have drywall in your garage or exposed studs?
Last edited by MB37; 05-28-2024 at 11:26 AM.
#32
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I think the NEMA 6-50 is the weak point, especially if it is consumer grade.
Even if you switch to NEMA 14-50, don't use consumer grade.
Only use Hubbell NEMA receptacles, costs a lot more but they are industrial grade. A slightly cheaper alternative is Bryant Electric - it is actually a rebranded Hubbell.
Or use Hard Wire.
I have also bought a smoke detector for my garage.
Even if you switch to NEMA 14-50, don't use consumer grade.
Only use Hubbell NEMA receptacles, costs a lot more but they are industrial grade. A slightly cheaper alternative is Bryant Electric - it is actually a rebranded Hubbell.
Or use Hard Wire.
I have also bought a smoke detector for my garage.
After reading this thread, I went out to my garage to see what receptacle my licensed electrician used for my installation. Surprise...Surprise they used a Home Depot brand "Pass & Seymour" an $8 item! I immediately arranged with a new licensed electrician to replace my Nema 14-50 with a HUBBELL commercial-grade receptacle. Although I have had this receptacle for 5 years, I would rather be overly cautious and get piece of mind. Thanks everyone for your input.
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
Likely the insurance adjuster will do some post mortem investigation into the suspected cause. Adequate wire gauge is critical, but the possible lack of the proper electrical box to secure the cable to receptacle and receptacle to charger plug could have caused the connections to work loose over time. Will be interesting to learn the final verdict. It never pays to go cheap when AC power is involved.
#34
I recommend this video in an age when most people think bigger is better. He talks about a reasonable and realistic implementation of EV charger based on your individual needs.
#35
Super Member
Thread Starter
Update: My contractor electrician friend just left. He looked at everything. First, I was wrong, there was a plastic housing, which either melted or burned away. He said the NEMA 6/50 was the definite culprit, was not very well made. He cut back on the cable about 8 inches and it looked good. It was #8, rated for 240v, 55amp, 90 degrees Celcius and for in wall installation. He felt the remaining cable was fine. He checked and verified the breaker function. He then looked at the ChargePoint, which did not suffer any damage except for the plug, and decided to try and hardwire it. He felt it was fine. So we did, and it is working fine, immediately logged onto my wifi, is currently charging my car at 9.4kW, and sending all the apropriate signals. This is a best case outcome, considering how close we came. Now I just need to get the drywall repaired and insulation replaced that the Fire Department cut back. There will be no insurance claim, so no investigation. I'm not into that. Were ordering an ozone generator and getting some charcoal to remove the smells (those lovely electrical fire smells!). Thanks for all your help and advice. This ended up working out about as well as a near disaster could possibly have done.
Addendum: he just called me back and said the 8awg cable is only rated at 40amps. So we've dialed back the ChargePoint to 30amps for now. Looks like I'll be changing the wire afterall.
Addendum: he just called me back and said the 8awg cable is only rated at 40amps. So we've dialed back the ChargePoint to 30amps for now. Looks like I'll be changing the wire afterall.
Last edited by hlothery; 05-28-2024 at 02:06 PM.
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AppleFan1 (05-28-2024)
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
You should demand a full refund from the dufus who did the original install. That he installed a 50 amp breaker with #8 cable into a plastic box should get his license revoked.
Glad the damage was minimal and that you can avoid an insurance claim.
Glad the damage was minimal and that you can avoid an insurance claim.
#37
Super Member
Thread Starter
Apparently there are certain types of #8 wire which are rated to 55amps, 90C degrees, etc. Just not sure if mine is yet. My guy is coming back over to check that. I can't imagine a licensed electrician installing it if it was not rated to support the 50amp breaker. Unfortunately, I have used it for 21/2 years with no problems until the NEMA 6/50 plug failed Sunday, so no refund is probable. But I agree, I would rather have 6awg cable. Thanks for your help. At least we're charging (albeit 7.7kW currently - pun intended).
#38
Super Member
Thread Starter
So, as I'm repairing and recovering from all these events, I have a question. For those of you who already do have a smoke detector in your garage, has an ICE vehicle ever set the detector off?
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
OMG! Thats terrifying. Glad you're okay, and glad you were home!
No, it never sets it off. It has to be pretty smoky to set it off.
No, it never sets it off. It has to be pretty smoky to set it off.
#40
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thanks....yep, really scary. I can't seem to get that image of a smoke filled garage and flames from the wall out of my mind. A smoke detector would have warned me much earlier. I'll have one by tomorrow.
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
Do you have nest or any other kind of smart home system? If so get one that communicates there so it can alert you.
#42
Super Member
Thread Starter
I'm not that advanced, unfortunately. But I believe I could have heard an audible smoke alarm, if I had had one. I will soon. Many lessons learned from this. Such a shame that folks you hire and pay a lot of money to do such shoddy work. That NEMA 6/50 install cost me over $2K. And, clearly, the plug was a cheapo, which failed. I have expertise in medicine....but had no idea about the charging parts and their issues. I do now! Hopefully now past all that. I still love my EQS! (But I'm very glad to still have my house!)
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm not that advanced, unfortunately. But I believe I could have heard an audible smoke alarm, if I had had one. I will soon. Many lessons learned from this. Such a shame that folks you hire and pay a lot of money to do such shoddy work. That NEMA 6/50 install cost me over $2K. And, clearly, the plug was a cheapo, which failed. I have expertise in medicine....but had no idea about the charging parts and their issues. I do now! Hopefully now past all that. I still love my EQS! (But I'm very glad to still have my house!)
I wonder how many "EV car fires" in peoples garages are actually caused by poor quality installation of the charger and not the car itself at all...
#44
Super Member
Thread Starter
Its terrible. I'm in the real estate and property management business, and there are so many people out there who charge a lot for really poor quality work...
I wonder how many "EV car fires" in peoples garages are actually caused by poor quality installation of the charger and not the car itself at all...
I wonder how many "EV car fires" in peoples garages are actually caused by poor quality installation of the charger and not the car itself at all...
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm glad it turned out the way it did!
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hlothery (05-29-2024)
#46
In defense of Leviton, they do make the WR (weather resistant) version which is about $53 for the outlet. This one is industrial grade and mainly use for RVs. Of course, Bryant is just as good. I think the key take aways are: 1. torquing the wire connection (71 lb/in), using at least 6 AWG wiring (despite 8 AWG rating for 55 amp, 90C),and using the right plug for the application. When you factor in continuous use application, the bigger wire will also present a better heat sink conduit. Also, a smoke detector for added safeguard should you need to go there. Of course, consult your trusted electrician for the panel and amp breaker size and choice.
Last edited by MB37; 05-28-2024 at 10:30 PM.
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hlothery (05-29-2024)
#47
Super Member
Thread Starter
I'll decide soon whether I'll just keep what I have, and charge at a safer 32amp (7.7kW) rate, or upgrade to the 6AWG cable. If I short cycle, which has been touted on this forum as better for the battery, we're talking about an extra hour to charge my current EQS, which is no big deal. So I may just leave it. But, then, there is the future........
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
Installing smoke/CO2 detectors in garages seems to be controversial due to false alarms potential. Some recommend heat detectors. In any case, with an EV parked and charging, some type of abnormal state alarm system seems a good idea. The right way to do it is not with an isolated unit, but with an AC powered detector that ties into the whole house system. When the garage unit alarms, every in- house alarm sounds also. Wiring this in will cost more, but will ensure you don't sleep through an incident. Some local building codes require garage alarms in new construction, but don't require retrofitting existing structures. If I had an EV in my garage, there would definitely be smoke and heat detectors installed.
#49
Member
Many articles explain why EV charging places a different sort of load on both circuit breakers and plugs. The issue appears to be the length of a charging session compared to that of a clothes dryer which creates continuous high temperature. The receptacles are not designed for repeated connect/disconnect cycles. There was an article about a breaker box fire because the wires were not torqued correctly.
I have a Wallbox Plus EV charger hard-wired into the breaker box. Compatible with the Mercedes Me app for all charging transactions. The circuit breaker is 60A since my charger can deliver 50A to a vehicle. My EQEX4 only accepts 40A so a bit of planning for the future. A smoke detector is also a good idea in a garage even with just a ICE.
I have a Wallbox Plus EV charger hard-wired into the breaker box. Compatible with the Mercedes Me app for all charging transactions. The circuit breaker is 60A since my charger can deliver 50A to a vehicle. My EQEX4 only accepts 40A so a bit of planning for the future. A smoke detector is also a good idea in a garage even with just a ICE.
Last edited by 23-EQS580-SUV; 05-29-2024 at 09:28 AM.
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
I agree with the above, kind of the same thing I was getting at with the nest detector.
I’ve had a smoke detector in my garage for a long time and have never had any kind of false alarm. Unless you have a car in there that’s really smoking if the detector is operating properly it will be fine
I’ve had a smoke detector in my garage for a long time and have never had any kind of false alarm. Unless you have a car in there that’s really smoking if the detector is operating properly it will be fine