Garage Charger Fire!
#76
Super Member
#77
MBWorld Fanatic!
The outlets are not designed for that many plug/unplug cycles...it wears the outlet out. As was said above the rated life of the outlet is about 350 plug/unplug cycles. They just dont anticipate people plugging and unplugging 220v outlets all the time.
#78
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Great info from this forum.
#79
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think I plugged and unplugged maybe 25 times in two+ years. I almost always use EA. BUT since the free charging is ending if it hasn’t already, I’ll be using the ChargePoint wall charger more frequently. For long trips, I’ll charge it to 100%.
Great info from this forum.
Great info from this forum.
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AppleFan1 (06-04-2024)
#80
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223.168 & 213.012 & 906.633 & 214.005
I have the European style 3 phase 11 kW charger with a plug. Although only 16 A, I just unplugged and plugged it again after reading this thread. I thought it would be healthy for the contact surfaces to rub out any corrosion or what ever they may have. Never seen any hard facts which way would be better. I understand the max cycles for any plug and some may have a significantly lower max figure but surely these would not exist if they were supposed to be used only once! 25 times in 2 years is more or less "only once"?
#81
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2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
Just bought a brand new house and one of the electrical outlets is so loose my surge suppressor literally fell out on its own. Duty cycle is apparently one plug-in.
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Diesel Benz (06-06-2024)
#82
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I have the European style 3 phase 11 kW charger with a plug. Although only 16 A, I just unplugged and plugged it again after reading this thread. I thought it would be healthy for the contact surfaces to rub out any corrosion or what ever they may have. Never seen any hard facts which way would be better. I understand the max cycles for any plug and some may have a significantly lower max figure but surely these would not exist if they were supposed to be used only once! 25 times in 2 years is more or less "only once"?
#83
Arcing is the the most likihood of melting and fire at receptacle plugs. If you have a loose receptale/plug, replace it. Make sure that the wires are torqued properly according to code. It doesn't matter how many times you unplug/plug in X number of months or years. Industrial grade or WR (water resistant) receptacles will always be more durable than your standard household ones. The reason hardwire is recommended is because it removes the unpluggable connection which presents potential electrical arcing over time.
Now, if you have leviton or household grade receptacle, the outlet/plug is tight, and the wires are torqued to spec, I personally don't think you need to replace your recepable. However, for a peace of mind, replace it with an industrial grade receptable if you plan to plug/unplug frequently. Even at 9.7kw charging, a properly installed household 14-50 will reach temps of around 116-122 F which is in normal operating temperature. When you get to l50 F, you have a problem. Assuming you have at least a 50amp breaker, you can lower our EV charger down to 32A, and that will lower the heat resistance in your wire/connection when charging. But remember, a loose connection is a problem regardless, and electrical arcing is NOT your friend. Similarly, just because your car accelerate to 60mph in less than 5 seconds doesn't mean you need to do that all the time.
Now, if you have leviton or household grade receptacle, the outlet/plug is tight, and the wires are torqued to spec, I personally don't think you need to replace your recepable. However, for a peace of mind, replace it with an industrial grade receptable if you plan to plug/unplug frequently. Even at 9.7kw charging, a properly installed household 14-50 will reach temps of around 116-122 F which is in normal operating temperature. When you get to l50 F, you have a problem. Assuming you have at least a 50amp breaker, you can lower our EV charger down to 32A, and that will lower the heat resistance in your wire/connection when charging. But remember, a loose connection is a problem regardless, and electrical arcing is NOT your friend. Similarly, just because your car accelerate to 60mph in less than 5 seconds doesn't mean you need to do that all the time.
#84
Super Member
I measured 108F at my 14-50 plug that had been charging at 9.7kW for several hours. Same surface temperature for the lead to the Charge point unit. This was at 95F in the garage.
#85
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2023 EQE 500 SUV electric and 2024 Jaguar F-PACE SVR 5.0L
I guess now might be the time for a friendly reminder that it's the amps that'll kill ya.... but it's the volts that make spectacular arcs of plasma.
#86
Now, if you have leviton or household grade receptacle, the outlet/plug is tight, and the wires are torqued to spec, I personally don't think you need to replace your recepable. However, for a peace of mind, replace it with an industrial grade receptable if you plan to plug/unplug frequently.
Have a look at this page for a more detailed comparison: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-guide.140694/
IMHO, replace it if you have consumer grade.
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SW20S (06-05-2024)
#88
Not totally correct. The wire ampacity is rated based on the termination points. I have never seen a breaker or a receptacle rated @90c. Most are 40c. As such the lowest rated termination is the maximum allowable ampacity of the cable in the table. The point is to keep the heat down so that the insulation never degrades.
#89
Super Member
Thread Starter
Just another word on this. I just received a $2500 check from the original installer to reimburse me for that improper install and cover my upcoming drywall repairs. I have a scheduled install of 6ga wire, directly wired to my ChargePoint Homeflex, which is currently charging my car at 32amps/7.7kW safely with the existing cable directly wired, until the new install. This new install will give me a safe circuit, capable of delivering 40amp/9.6kW of charging power without worry. Having experienced the garage fire, which was scary as heck, I would not recommend a NEMA plug installation for any home charger. Make sure you have a working 50 amp circuit, which means breaker and wire rated for that, directly wired to your charger. We thought we did, but it was not installed properly, and we didn't. Several folks have expressed reluctance to pay what it takes to do this right. My advice is, don't skimp on this. Do it right the first time, We almost lost our house. Do not make that mistake.
#90
MBWorld Fanatic!
Glad that its working itself out. However there is no need to worry about a plugged install. The EQS 9.5 kw charger is amply safe with a correctly installed plug install. The big issue is the dearth of competent electricians. When I did my home install, I was under the impression that the car was going to have an 11.5 charger (it hadn't been cleared up yet) thus I has a 60 amp circuit enstalled. When I installed it in our other home I did a 50amp circuit. They both work flawlessly using a plug. The cables dont even get warm!
#92
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just another word on this. I just received a $2500 check from the original installer to reimburse me for that improper install and cover my upcoming drywall repairs. I have a scheduled install of 6ga wire, directly wired to my ChargePoint Homeflex, which is currently charging my car at 32amps/7.7kW safely with the existing cable directly wired, until the new install. This new install will give me a safe circuit, capable of delivering 40amp/9.6kW of charging power without worry. Having experienced the garage fire, which was scary as heck, I would not recommend a NEMA plug installation for any home charger. Make sure you have a working 50 amp circuit, which means breaker and wire rated for that, directly wired to your charger. We thought we did, but it was not installed properly, and we didn't. Several folks have expressed reluctance to pay what it takes to do this right. My advice is, don't skimp on this. Do it right the first time, We almost lost our house. Do not make that mistake.
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SW20S (06-13-2024)
#95
Super Member
Thread Starter
Crito, that was a fantastic video, thank you so much. Wish I had seen it before my problem install. I will have mine done correctly and hard wired in about a week, can increase my ChargePoint charger's capacity back to 40 amps, and can feel safe. EVERYONE should watch this video and educate themselves about their installation. If you have a NEMA 6/50 or 14/50 plug that is not a Hubbel or similar high quality plug, you need to have it changed out before it melts down and your garage is on fire. Lesson's learned, for sure.
Last edited by hlothery; 06-13-2024 at 04:38 PM.
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Crito (07-04-2024)
#96
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Crito, that was a fantastic video, thank you so much. Wish I had seen it before my problem install. I will have mine done correctly and hard wired in about a week, can increase my ChargePoint charger's capacity back to 40 amps, and can feel safe. EVERYONE should watch this video and educate themselves about their installation. If you have a NEMA 6/50 or 14/50 plug that is not a Hubbel or similar high quality plug, you need to have it changed out before it melts down and your garage is on fire. Lesson's learned, for sure.
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Crito (07-04-2024)
#97
Super Member
Just checked again after charging for over than an hour at 40a/9.8kW and 100F ambient, 130F/54C at the lead closest to the plug. I understand that my Home Depot Leviton is only rated to 50C. I down-rated to 32A and will be replacing the receptacle with a Hubbell or Bryant.
#98
Just checked again after charging for over than an hour at 40a/9.8kW and 100F ambient, 130F/54C at the lead closest to the plug. I understand that my Home Depot Leviton is only rated to 50C. I down-rated to 32A and will be replacing the receptacle with a Hubbell or Bryant.
#99
Super Member
Thread Starter
Final resolution: yesterday the drywall repairs were completed, and the instation of 6awg Romex through my attic, with a direct connection to my ChargePoint Homeflex was also completed. Finally, I have a safe circuit (55amp cable on a 50 amp breaker, with my box set at 40 amps, charging at 9.5kW). I did get reimbursed by the former installer, and now feel all is safe and working well. A near tragedy was avoided, and my angst is subsiding as I rationalize that everything now is up to code and safe. Thanks for all your comments and help. I highly recommend direct connection, with no weak links between the breaker and the wallbox. I have a smoke detector in the garage above my car, and a new fire extinguisher ready to use. Safe charging, everyone!
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