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Have an itch for a 4x4^2. From what I know only about 500 were produced globally and about 300 were imported to the US. When I look on cars.com I see 67 of them available for sale. Obviously I am shocked at the volume given the low production. Can anyone share some insight as to why there might be so many available?
factors that I already know:
strong market (still)
announcement of new 4x4^2
approaching 5yr warranty end
anything else I am missing with this model? If any current or past owners could chime in that would be great. I get the sense that these are really slow sellers as one was available at my local dealership for over 2yrs.
I have spent some time around these cars and a number of clients of ours have had some roll through their showrooms so I have some ideas. First is that the new generation G is supposed to be so much better an over all vehicle, that all previous generation models seem less appealing. Second is that the new generation 4x4^2 has been announced so it is no longer just a 300 unit "one-off", so the speculators are getting out now, and if the new 4x4^2 compares to the regular G... this new generation will be a far more superior truck. Lastly is that it isn't quite as extreme as a 6x6 and not as social acceptable as a regular G63, it is a weird middle that seems to be a very small market of actual buyers. I don't think warranty is an issue because the regular G wagon has the same issues, I have many relationships with Mercedes-Benz dealers in North America because our Freedom Warranty provider offers extended warranty coverage on the G's, but are one of very few providers that do.
I will say though that after seeing the new 4x4^2 in person just this last week at the Mercedes-Benz Pebble Beach display... the previous generation is much more aggressive and "bad ***" than the new one... so if I were to buy one, I'd get the previous generation and slap a Freedom Warranty on it.
I have spent some time around these cars and a number of clients of ours have had some roll through their showrooms so I have some ideas. First is that the new generation G is supposed to be so much better an over all vehicle, that all previous generation models seem less appealing. Second is that the new generation 4x4^2 has been announced so it is no longer just a 300 unit "one-off", so the speculators are getting out now, and if the new 4x4^2 compares to the regular G... this new generation will be a far more superior truck. Lastly is that it isn't quite as extreme as a 6x6 and not as social acceptable as a regular G63, it is a weird middle that seems to be a very small market of actual buyers. I don't think warranty is an issue because the regular G wagon has the same issues, I have many relationships with Mercedes-Benz dealers in North America because our Freedom Warranty provider offers extended warranty coverage on the G's, but are one of very few providers that do.
I will say though that after seeing the new 4x4^2 in person just this last week at the Mercedes-Benz Pebble Beach display... the previous generation is much more aggressive and "bad ***" than the new one... so if I were to buy one, I'd get the previous generation and slap a Freedom Warranty on it.
Do you sell an exclusionary policy for a 2011 G550 with 90k miles?
I have spent some time around these cars and a number of clients of ours have had some roll through their showrooms so I have some ideas. First is that the new generation G is supposed to be so much better an over all vehicle, that all previous generation models seem less appealing. Second is that the new generation 4x4^2 has been announced so it is no longer just a 300 unit "one-off", so the speculators are getting out now, and if the new 4x4^2 compares to the regular G... this new generation will be a far more superior truck. Lastly is that it isn't quite as extreme as a 6x6 and not as social acceptable as a regular G63, it is a weird middle that seems to be a very small market of actual buyers. I don't think warranty is an issue because the regular G wagon has the same issues, I have many relationships with Mercedes-Benz dealers in North America because our Freedom Warranty provider offers extended warranty coverage on the G's, but are one of very few providers that do.
I will say though that after seeing the new 4x4^2 in person just this last week at the Mercedes-Benz Pebble Beach display... the previous generation is much more aggressive and "bad ***" than the new one... so if I were to buy one, I'd get the previous generation and slap a Freedom Warranty on it.
totally agree with your comments/perspective about the new G. I have no doubt that it will be superior to the outgoing in just about every way possible. I also agree that the new G 4x4 seems to be lacking something for me. When you saw the current 4x4^2 in person you were almost shocked at the dimensions and the look. The new 4x4 just seems a bit too close to the standard g63 for me. It has just lost something in the translation.
tough part is figuring out a fair price on the outgoing 4x4. I am a driver and not a flipper so I don’t care about getting it for as cheap as possible but at the same time I don’t want to lose my shirt if I decide to sell it in a couple of years. Anyone know how much dealers are offering on trade-ins?
I have been off and on in the market for the last year and the ones that are near me in S. Cal are not really in the best of shape. I have seen all the ones I am interested in . Ultimately, I am really looking for one that has not been modified and all service records done.
This forum is usually pretty silent on help about the 4x4. I haven't gotten much help here and it also coincides with the fact there isn't many out there to begin with.
The first thing I would look out for is the shocks. They all will leak about this time (3-5 yrs or 15K miles or more). That is just how the Ohlins are made. To repair these shocks it costs anywhere from $600 to $1000 per shock. Keep in mind, you have 8 of them. The dealership will have no idea that they leak and will tell you it has a clean bill of health. Don't believe them, go look at the 4x4 yourself. I went to see 2 different 4x4's that were sitting in the pretty showroom floor this afternoon. I looked underneath both trucks and they both had about a quarters size pool of oil on the pretty showroom floor at all 4 corners on both vehicles. Shocks need to be looked at but they promised me it was "pristine" and that it has a clean bill of health on the phone.
The second thing to look out for is the carbon fender flares. In the last year, I probably put my hands on 10 4x4's and 8 of them had damage to one more of the carbon fender flares. The carbon cannot be repaired and have to be replaced once damaged. Of those damages, Ive seen about 3 of them completely cracked on either the front passenger or drivers side never in the rear. Can this be due to driving too fast and the carbon not being reinforced enough to withstand the wind? Either way, cheapest quote I got from MBZ was $24K for all 4 to be replaced and as much as $14K to replace only one.
These are the top 2 things I look for and usually they don't pass the test. The dealerships say their "inspection" calls the leak normal and will not replace or get them fixed. No way is this normal. You can wait as long as little as 8 weeks or up to 16 weeks to get the shocks back in. Once a crack or chip starts on the carbon, it will keep spreading and you will have to eventually change it.
I have been off and on in the market for the last year and the ones that are near me in S. Cal are not really in the best of shape. I have seen all the ones I am interested in . Ultimately, I am really looking for one that has not been modified and all service records done.
This forum is usually pretty silent on help about the 4x4. I haven't gotten much help here and it also coincides with the fact there isn't many out there to begin with.
The first thing I would look out for is the shocks. They all will leak about this time (3-5 yrs or 15K miles or more). That is just how the Ohlins are made. To repair these shocks it costs anywhere from $600 to $1000 per shock. Keep in mind, you have 8 of them. The dealership will have no idea that they leak and will tell you it has a clean bill of health. Don't believe them, go look at the 4x4 yourself. I went to see 2 different 4x4's that were sitting in the pretty showroom floor this afternoon. I looked underneath both trucks and they both had about a quarters size pool of oil on the pretty showroom floor at all 4 corners on both vehicles. Shocks need to be looked at but they promised me it was "pristine" and that it has a clean bill of health on the phone.
The second thing to look out for is the carbon fender flares. In the last year, I probably put my hands on 10 4x4's and 8 of them had damage to one more of the carbon fender flares. The carbon cannot be repaired and have to be replaced once damaged. Of those damages, Ive seen about 3 of them completely cracked on either the front passenger or drivers side never in the rear. Can this be due to driving too fast and the carbon not being reinforced enough to withstand the wind? Either way, cheapest quote I got from MBZ was $24K for all 4 to be replaced and as much as $14K to replace only one.
These are the top 2 things I look for and usually they don't pass the test. The dealerships say their "inspection" calls the leak normal and will not replace or get them fixed. No way is this normal. You can wait as long as little as 8 weeks or up to 16 weeks to get the shocks back in. Once a crack or chip starts on the carbon, it will keep spreading and you will have to eventually change it.
I hope this helps.
Wow, appreciate the insight. Will definitely be on the lookout for some of the issues you mentioned. Unfortunately none of the 4x4 that I would consider are near me so I will have to send them to a local MB dealership for a PPI. Could I trust the dealership to perform a good evaluation on the shocks? . If the shocks are leaking do they all need to be replaced or can they be repaired by a good indi service center? Carbon fenders should be fairly easy to evaluate. Its good to know they have so many issues with cracking as I will definitely be covering them with PPF.
Wow, appreciate the insight. Will definitely be on the lookout for some of the issues you mentioned. Unfortunately none of the 4x4 that I would consider are near me so I will have to send them to a local MB dealership for a PPI. Could I trust the dealership to perform a good evaluation on the shocks? . If the shocks are leaking do they all need to be replaced or can they be repaired by a good indi service center? Carbon fenders should be fairly easy to evaluate. Its good to know they have so many issues with cracking as I will definitely be covering them with PPF.
Thanks!
All the ones I have check has been at MBZ dealerships. They really do not know what to look out for since they see so few of them. They assume at low mileage, nothing should be wrong with the shocks. One of my buddies who has a higher mileage (40K ) on his 4x4 bought an extra pair of shocks just in case the other set needs to be sent off. I think you can find a food independent dealer to repair the shock and the seals, but the questions is who installs it?
If they are at an independent dealership, I generally don't entertain it.
I cracked my fenders on my old 4x4 from doing very basic off-roading, the CF fenders can’t handle rocks getting thrown at them and they crack very easily. With that find one with good fenders and add some rhino lining on the inside of the fenders to prevent them from cracking!
All the ones I have check has been at MBZ dealerships. They really do not know what to look out for since they see so few of them. They assume at low mileage, nothing should be wrong with the shocks. One of my buddies who has a higher mileage (40K ) on his 4x4 bought an extra pair of shocks just in case the other set needs to be sent off. I think you can find a food independent dealer to repair the shock and the seals, but the questions is who installs it?
If they are at an independent dealership, I generally don't entertain it.
Originally Posted by rhyno
I cracked my fenders on my old 4x4 from doing very basic off-roading, the CF fenders can’t handle rocks getting thrown at them and they crack very easily. With that find one with good fenders and add some rhino lining on the inside of the fenders to prevent them from cracking!
thanks for the advice everyone. Will definitely consider the shock and fender issues. Would have never guessed that such beefy shocks would have such a short life expectancy.
if anyone has sold one recently can you share what kind of offered you received from their dealer? That would be really helpful when thinking about my offer.
My 4x4 splits daily driver duty with my 19 G63. I haven’t had any of these issues re: shocks or cracked fenders. I think a lot of these have been abused by idiots who could afford them and thought they had a tank and did stupid stuff with and to them, and then realized they aren’t super practical given height. Mine has been well cared for and it repays me with reliability.
as for comparisons to the new one, the new one is faster, fancier, more kitted out, etc. but the original is better. More brash, in your face, obscene and absurd. The new one is sort of apologetic, the old one doesn’t care what you think. And it’s awesome.
The shock rebuild is not surprising given the nature of them. They are meant to be serviceable/rebuildable, so they are going to be more prone to leak. Most all brands of servicable shocks are going to require a rebuild at some point, and 4-5 years post production is about right. It's a time intensive process, so it won't be cheap. @fkim011 who quoted you to do the rebuilds on the shocks? With parts and labor those prices don't sound too far out of whack, just wondering if that quote was from an MB dealer, or an independent shop.
The CF flares can actually be repaired, but it's not cheap. There is a shop here in Houston that has done it on several of them.
@Jfkayne I did a deep dive into values on these a couple of years ago when I was going to buy one (ended up passing as a G65 came along I couldn't pass up), and I looked at everything that was available on the market at that time. There were roughly 50 of them at any given moment. There are lots of reasons that so many of a small run are on the market, and previous posters have commented on a few of those. One other thing that kept coming up when I spoke with private sellers was that many of them got tired of the size of it. They don't fit in most garages, and climbing up into them gets tiresome for some people.
As far as values go, here are my findings from 2 years ago (asking price, not sold price):
For 2017 Model Year:
Average
Miles: 8682
Asking Price: $224,992.07
High
Miles: 30289
Asking Price: $399,000.00
Low
Miles: 522
Asking Price: $180,999.00
Average (Exclude over $250K asking, or over 20K miles )
Miles: 6803
Asking Price: $218,952.47
Median (Outliers given less weight to impact score)
Miles: 6416
Asking Price: $219,997.00
For 2018 MY: Average
Miles: 4220
Asking Price: $237,172.14
High
Miles: 14096
Asking Price: $304,979.00
Low
Miles: 108
Asking Price: $208,950.00
Average (Exclude over $250K asking, or over 20K miles )
Miles: 4220
Asking Price: $226,302.29
Median (Outliers given less weight to impact score)
Miles: 4380
Asking Price: $228,900.00
These numbers are obviously no longer accurate, but they can give you some basic info to consider. As everyone knows, the car market went crazy for the past two years, so asking prices have trended upwards on these (just like all other cars). The average miles on these have gone up significantly in that time as well. It was rare to find them with more than 15,000 miles on them back then, but now there are lots of them with some miles on them. 2018 MY obviously brought a little more money ($10K on the ask) than the 2017. The only mods that seemed to recoup any of their money was legit Brabus stuff. That still seems to be the case to some extent, but the RNM on the recent one on BAT indicates the buyer pool is stll pretty small on these, and the money on them in great condition still needs to be at or below sticker. If it has miles on it it needs to be quite a bit below sticker (like sub $200K).
The shock rebuild is not surprising given the nature of them. They are meant to be serviceable/rebuildable, so they are going to be more prone to leak. Most all brands of servicable shocks are going to require a rebuild at some point, and 4-5 years post production is about right. It's a time intensive process, so it won't be cheap. @fkim011 who quoted you to do the rebuilds on the shocks? With parts and labor those prices don't sound too far out of whack, just wondering if that quote was from an MB dealer, or an independent shop.
The CF flares can actually be repaired, but it's not cheap. There is a shop here in Houston that has done it on several of them.
@Jfkayne I did a deep dive into values on these a couple of years ago when I was going to buy one (ended up passing as a G65 came along I couldn't pass up), and I looked at everything that was available on the market at that time. There were roughly 50 of them at any given moment. There are lots of reasons that so many of a small run are on the market, and previous posters have commented on a few of those. One other thing that kept coming up when I spoke with private sellers was that many of them got tired of the size of it. They don't fit in most garages, and climbing up into them gets tiresome for some people.
As far as values go, here are my findings from 2 years ago (asking price, not sold price):
For 2017 Model Year:
Average
Miles: 8682
Asking Price: $224,992.07
High
Miles: 30289
Asking Price: $399,000.00
Low
Miles: 522
Asking Price: $180,999.00
Average (Exclude over $250K asking, or over 20K miles )
Miles: 6803
Asking Price: $218,952.47
Median (Outliers given less weight to impact score)
Miles: 6416
Asking Price: $219,997.00
For 2018 MY: Average
Miles: 4220
Asking Price: $237,172.14
High
Miles: 14096
Asking Price: $304,979.00
Low
Miles: 108
Asking Price: $208,950.00
Average (Exclude over $250K asking, or over 20K miles )
Miles: 4220
Asking Price: $226,302.29
Median (Outliers given less weight to impact score)
Miles: 4380
Asking Price: $228,900.00
These numbers are obviously no longer accurate, but they can give you some basic info to consider. As everyone knows, the car market went crazy for the past two years, so asking prices have trended upwards on these (just like all other cars). The average miles on these have gone up significantly in that time as well. It was rare to find them with more than 15,000 miles on them back then, but now there are lots of them with some miles on them. 2018 MY obviously brought a little more money ($10K on the ask) than the 2017. The only mods that seemed to recoup any of their money was legit Brabus stuff. That still seems to be the case to some extent, but the RNM on the recent one on BAT indicates the buyer pool is stll pretty small on these, and the money on them in great condition still needs to be at or below sticker. If it has miles on it it needs to be quite a bit below sticker (like sub $200K).
Good luck on your search!
super helpful information. Prices have definitely been coming down but there is still a ton of dealers who are not willing to budge. I just don’t think they can come to terms with the fact that they can’t make $40k-$50k on a flip in this environment. I am speaking to another private seller in the $150-$160 range with moderate miles for its age. Clearly a daily driver for the owner but without a long commute.
seems like the main reason for the high inventory is just a really small pool of buyers which is probably the most concerning to me from a value perspective. I guess I need to consider more the value a dealer would give me vs hoping for a private sale if I decide the truck is not for me. Practicality should not be that much of a concern because it fits in my garage and I live in the burbs. The width is a lot less than a ford raptor so parking cannot be that bad.
I think if I can get a clean title with moderate miles the $150-$170 range seems “comfortable” to step into one. Also have to deduct the cost of a suspension rebuild into anything I consider. At least the cost is not that bad compared to other exotics.
super helpful information. Prices have definitely been coming down but there is still a ton of dealers who are not willing to budge. I just don’t think they can come to terms with the fact that they can’t make $40k-$50k on a flip in this environment. I am speaking to another private seller in the $150-$160 range with moderate miles for its age. Clearly a daily driver for the owner but without a long commute.
seems like the main reason for the high inventory is just a really small pool of buyers which is probably the most concerning to me from a value perspective. I guess I need to consider more the value a dealer would give me vs hoping for a private sale if I decide the truck is not for me. Practicality should not be that much of a concern because it fits in my garage and I live in the burbs. The width is a lot less than a ford raptor so parking cannot be that bad.
I think if I can get a clean title with moderate miles the $150-$170 range seems “comfortable” to step into one. Also have to deduct the cost of a suspension rebuild into anything I consider. At least the cost is not that bad compared to other exotics.
appreciate the advice everyone
I think you are coming at this from a good perspective. If you can get in at $150-$170 with moderate miles (I'd say less than 25,000, but in the 15,000 mile range is better) then it would be a relatively safe bet from a "not losing your a$$ standpoint". Having the ability to dump it to a dealer instead of taking a long time to sell it privately would make the exit much easier for you. As you said, the pool of buyers is small.
It's not harder to park than a Raptor, but not a lot of people are used to that kind of size in a vehicle. Height in parking garages is the issue more than anything, but it sounds like that's not an issue for you. Plus, climbing into and out of it isn't as easy as most SUVs. It takes someone who is willing to deal with the "quirks".
Let us know if you end up getting one. I still consider getting one every now and then, but haven't pulled the trigger just yet.
Not to burst any bubbles but you’re not getting one w 15,000 miles for 150-175k, unless you’re buying from an idiot or you’re buying a garbage truck.
The MMR on a 2017 with 36k miles is 176k. A black with 18k miles just traded for 181k at auction in California. One with 72k miles just traded for 152k at auction in TX. That puts retail comfortably at 200k and private party probably around 190k. If someone is selling to you with 15k miles for 150k, something is super wrong with that truck.
Not to burst any bubbles but you’re not getting one w 15,000 miles for 150-175k, unless you’re buying from an idiot or you’re buying a garbage truck.
The MMR on a 2017 with 36k miles is 176k. A black with 18k miles just traded for 181k at auction in California. One with 72k miles just traded for 152k at auction in TX. That puts retail comfortably at 200k and private party probably around 190k. If someone is selling to you with 15k miles for 150k, something is super wrong with that truck.
Totally agree. Wish I could find one with miles that low in the $150-$170 range but that does not seem to be a possibility. When I said moderate miles I should have clarified ~40k. Definitely higher than most but significantly lower than the high mile examples that I see. I plan to use this quite often as a semi daily so not worried about buying one with a bit more miles on it. My guess, and I have no data to support this, is that a dealer would offer $110-130k for a 4x4 with miles in that range. That is just how I was thinking about it but please do chime in if you think those dealer offers are way out of line.
Wow those prices make it sounds like a deal. 4x4's here in Vancouver are selling for $350-400k CAD. However, all the ones I've seen have Brabus accessories... The gold one has been for sale for a long time...
Not to burst any bubbles but you’re not getting one w 15,000 miles for 150-175k, unless you’re buying from an idiot or you’re buying a garbage truck.
The MMR on a 2017 with 36k miles is 176k. A black with 18k miles just traded for 181k at auction in California. One with 72k miles just traded for 152k at auction in TX. That puts retail comfortably at 200k and private party probably around 190k. If someone is selling to you with 15k miles for 150k, something is super wrong with that truck.
I wasn't saying it would be easy to find. It will definitely take some work (as was evidenced by my exhaustive research a couple years ago). Keep in mind vehicles typically go to auction because they aren't moving in dealer inventory, or they have an issue the dealer doesn't want to mess with. It's a clearing house for a reason. The 18K mile one that went for $181K at auction is a good price point. That's in line with what OP was looking to spend. On Squareds you can figure $0.50 to $1.00 per mile deduction for miles. If that was $181K for an 18K mile truck, it would make sense a 72K mile truck was $152K. OP should be looking to buy at auction prices from a dealer that is getting dinged on floor plan financing, or a private seller that is ready to let it go. He should not be looking at retail if his concern is getting out of it if he doesn't like it.
I have been off and on in the market for the last year and the ones that are near me in S. Cal are not really in the best of shape. I have seen all the ones I am interested in . Ultimately, I am really looking for one that has not been modified and all service records done.
This forum is usually pretty silent on help about the 4x4. I haven't gotten much help here and it also coincides with the fact there isn't many out there to begin with.
The first thing I would look out for is the shocks. They all will leak about this time (3-5 yrs or 15K miles or more). That is just how the Ohlins are made. To repair these shocks it costs anywhere from $600 to $1000 per shock. Keep in mind, you have 8 of them. The dealership will have no idea that they leak and will tell you it has a clean bill of health. Don't believe them, go look at the 4x4 yourself. I went to see 2 different 4x4's that were sitting in the pretty showroom floor this afternoon. I looked underneath both trucks and they both had about a quarters size pool of oil on the pretty showroom floor at all 4 corners on both vehicles. Shocks need to be looked at but they promised me it was "pristine" and that it has a clean bill of health on the phone.
The second thing to look out for is the carbon fender flares. In the last year, I probably put my hands on 10 4x4's and 8 of them had damage to one more of the carbon fender flares. The carbon cannot be repaired and have to be replaced once damaged. Of those damages, Ive seen about 3 of them completely cracked on either the front passenger or drivers side never in the rear. Can this be due to driving too fast and the carbon not being reinforced enough to withstand the wind? Either way, cheapest quote I got from MBZ was $24K for all 4 to be replaced and as much as $14K to replace only one.
These are the top 2 things I look for and usually they don't pass the test. The dealerships say their "inspection" calls the leak normal and will not replace or get them fixed. No way is this normal. You can wait as long as little as 8 weeks or up to 16 weeks to get the shocks back in. Once a crack or chip starts on the carbon, it will keep spreading and you will have to eventually change it.
I hope this helps.
8 to 16 weeks for shock repair??? That sounds a little absurd for the repair (or any repair) to take that long.
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