Kubazzz

damn, I've posted similar thread and there is sooo 'not-many' replies

JDM

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..Well said to both of you! My personal opinion is that Mercedes needs to go back to Germany, and focus on being Mercedes, and show the rest of the world that they can in fact be the best cars, as they always have been. Put the greed aside, and build cars.
...I buy Mercedes because I want a good, high quality German car. There are qualities offered by these cars that cannot be found in any other car. Unfortunately things are different, as mentioned earlier. I hope I dont ever see this manufacturer or any other quality German car become just another boring people mover. If I wanted vanilla, I'd buy a toyota camry. When I want good wine, I go to the winery, and I expect to find it.

JDM

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..Well thank you for yours..I think many people drive an image, others drive to enjoy the machine. Those that drive for the image probably dont care about this topic.

Kubazzz

i think that the JD Powers ratings are worthless.
Look at this: http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9697/rate7ug.jpg
It seems that the S-Class is nothing but a wrecked piece of junk while the LS is an outstanding ultimate space-shuttle and provides orgasmic feelings...
I think it's a matter of expectations - Lexus is still considered as an upgraded Toyota and Mercedes has to prove his legend all the time.
Ok, maybe Toyota builds good cars, especially with Lexus badge, but I don't think these cars can really beat Mercedes. What's the top for Lexus is the bottom for Mercedes - I think this is the reason why we all seize on this "Big Mercedes-Benz Breakdown".
BTW - look at the other German brands - Audi and BMW.
I can't believe that!
I would buy Lexus only if all german factories were destroyed
First MB, than BMW, than Audi, than maybe Lexus.
Even if the LS could do a nice blow-job i wouldn't buy it instead of german car :p Lexus doesn't have any spirit.

But I can agree that there's nothing wrong about improving quality. I think the new Daimler-Chrysler chairman will solve most of the problems.

vraa

Blind loyalty will really bite you in the ***. Similair to this!

Kubazzz

in my thread [previously mentioned] i've said what it's all about - bad management - corruption and incompetence. Mercedes-Benz is not a chinese toy producer but it seems that some people from the management have thought so.

CE750

MBs biggest problem is their Nickel and Dime MBUSA subsidiary that makes a sunroof and leather seats an option on a $51700 E class... That is MB's biggest problem, and WHY people are buying Lexus, and Acura... Acura RL has NO, repeat, NO options.... for $49K sticker!

That is MB's problem.. not a handful of electronic bugs.. common people...

Kubazzz

LoL - that's a funny picture
You drive a BMW, don't You?
I'm not blind, I CAN see the problem but I think that neither Mercedes nor BMW suck. This would be an outrage! Those are still good vehicles, plus they have their own spirits.

vraa

I do

I was just using it as an example. All companies suck.
Spirits are overrated, they are just cars.

revstriker

I think the whole idea of a German, Japanese, American... car is old thinking. What makes a German car German? Where it's built? Where the company is located? Where the parts are made? Who owns the company?

Take a look at a Ford Taurus for instance. Here is a typical "American" car. However, the Honda Accord has more parts made in the USA than the Taurus.

Personally, I don't care where the car is made. What matters is the company's reputation, and the quality and value of the product.

CE750

times HAVE changed, and so have ways... but I don't think for the better. An MB from the 30's or even 70's was far and above a better car than just about any other production care made... is that as much the case today? Some would argue not.. and that in and of itself is a sad statement on the way things are done today.

JDM

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...I think there's more truth to this than not..Look at some of the crap that manufacturers put out these days, and people buy it! Like little milk cartons, or transformers...or half-a-cars. And to think people can stand there on the lot and say.."yeah, I'll but that", "I want to be seen by everybody driving that.."..I wish I had "bad taste award" bumper stickers to hand out....
Yeah I'm ...sorry.

JDM

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.exactly. It's more about selling a product to as many people as possible, and less about having an exclusive mark.

JDM

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..I have no doubt its in the business end. Its all about business now. Like I said, Greeed. Greed replaces many things. Craftsmanship comes from passion, not greed.

MTI

Future E-Class owners might be interested in this . . . 2009, only 4 years to go.

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler will make all the different versions of its next-generation Mercedes-Benz E-Class cars at its own manufacturing facilities, the German-American carmaker said on Wednesday.

"The decision has been made to produce all the variants in-house," a company spokesman said.

Austrian contract car builder Magna Steyr, a unit of Magna International Inc, makes the four-wheel-drive version of the E-Class under license now. Its annual output of the model is around 20,000 cars.

The completely redesigned E-Class is due for launch in 2009 as a sedan, with a four-wheel-drive version to follow, probably early in 2010, the spokesman said.

lkchris

Engineering is engineering.

Engineering includes the specifications for how assembly is performed and how assembly is inspected.

Where assembly happens is meaningless.

CE750

none sense.. You live in a theoretical world where either robots do all of the assembly, or QC doesn't mean anything.

Workmanship is as much a part of a culture as cuisne... A german worker has a totally different understanding of what is acceptable workmanship from a Chinese worker... it would take generations to change it. I had a minority share in a company that did chinese manufacturing for a short period of time requiring hand assembly and semi-skilled workers. The failure rate was better than 50% before we relocated manufacturing back to the US. And this was simply electrical wiring harnesses for diesel trucks. So the reality is in terms of labor, you get what you pay for!

MTI

Don't try that logic with the early M-Class owners . . . they were ready to storm the Alabama production site with torches and pitchforks.

CE750

Exactly my point... took A LOT of work to get them to understand how it's to be done, and to this day many will tell you the MB's from there aren't cut of the same cloth.

alpinweiss

Actually, I am glad the sunroof is an option. I have always ordered my cars without the sunroof. I am very tall and need the extra headroom in a non-sunroof car. MB makes their cars for people with a variety of physiques, including tall northern European types.

I doubt I would ever buy a Lexus or Acura. They are appealing to a different customer.

On the original topic. It is probably true the engineering in a car is more important than the location of the assembly plant. Nonetheless, I want my car to say "Made in Germany". It is simply my preference.

Ted Baldwin

........lets say the engine of your "truly german" car is handcrafted in Germany by an immigrant from Hungary who's supervisor is from Poland. Will you desire the car any less? If not, then what if that same Hungarian and that same Polish supervisor, did the Job in Hungary with the same materials? Does this change things for you? The world is changing, and contrary to all the fuss, it is changing for the better. What if the CEO of your German car company is West African? Is your car no longer a German car? Wait, are Chrysler's german cars or not? If yes, why. If not why not?



Ted

CE750

It's German when it's "Made in Germany" where the German culture and obsession for perfection and fit and finish is applied to the Polish workers an Hungarian supervisors.. et al.

When my MB is made outside of Germany.. is when I buy another brand.

MY Volvo even had to be "Made in Sweden"

Maybe I'm a bit ****, maybe I just want to get what I'm paying for.

alpinweiss

Here are a couple of examples that come to my mind:

When Volkswagen began building cars in the U.S. (Pennsylvania) there were some initial quality issues with those cars. You could park an American VW and a German VW beside each other, and most car experts would choose the German built car. The differences were subtle, yet noticeable. I realize this is old news (1980's).

Mercedes and its American made ML series had initial quality issues. Enough said.

Continental Tire has plants both in the US and in Germany. The US versions have had more quality problems than the German versions.

It may be hard to quantify exactly why, but "Made in Germany" is still what I prefer. Yes, all of us pay a premium for that label.

Ted Baldwin

................actually your response makes the point that it is the obsession for perfection and fit and finish you desire. Where we defer is the idea that such a trait is uniquely German. If this were true, then what happened to Robert Bosch, the company responsible for the the electronic gremlins that plague today's mercedes benz automobiles? Have they given up their German citizenship?

Ted

CE750

Robert Bosch was/is an major inovater of automotive technology.. No one is perfect, and certainly they made some "engineering mistakes" .. but that doth not translate to Mercedes Coach/Chassis "Fit and finish" which is completely unrelated to what the EE's and ME's do at Bosch. That said, with the bugs being addressed on the SBC and other items.. I'm completely satisfied with my car. The Bosch CDI injection for one, is nothing less than amazing!