CE750

Unrelated to auto, but along those lines.. I collect model trains.. and Marklin (a major German maker) started to shift some production to Hungry and China... There is a major uproar with in the collector community over this, as both the quality is inferior, and the collectabiltiy of a Marklin made in China is NIL.

Germans are victims of their own culture in that people who are "cheap" and don't want to pay for their stuff are going to make it harder and harder for them to compete with the Walmarts of the world who make and sell cheap Chinese made crap. Good news is I can afford, and will continue to buy what I can from Germany..

Here is a short list of stuff I/my wife have now just off the top of my head, that has cheap Chinese alternatives..

-Washer/Dryer
-Watch (also Swiss)
-Knives
-Model Trains / various accessories
-Car
-Iron
-Kitchen/bath hardware & faucets

and I'm sure I'm missing a few things..

All of superior quality.. the exception being that the newest set of steak knives I got were actually Japanese, and of a better quality than the German knives.. but then the Japanese have a long cultural heritage of fine knife/sword making.

Ted Baldwin

.............I have nothing against Robert Bosch. I was pointing out that the desire for perfection in engineering and workmanship is something I applaud the world over and not uniquely German. Some have argued that the current loss in pretige in Mercedes Benz automobiles is strictly because it stock with Robert bosch........that a japanese electronic partner would have done a better job. By this argument, the insistence on german workmanship in this case has cost Mercedes Benz dearly.

............as far as cheap knock offs of German goods in Asia. these do not in any way reflect asian workmanship in any way. Companies that want to make quick buck move production to another contrary for cheap labor. They hire unskilled labor in those new countries and the result is a poor product. I very much doubt that if the company hires a skilled worksman in Asia that the resultant product will be automatically inferiior simply because the worksman is Asian.

Ted

mleskovar

Few Germans work on automobile production lines. Ask them. It's considered a low class, entry level job. I say this because one American person who posted on this forum worked his way through college in Germany on an MB assembly line. Most of his coworkers were Mid-Eastern. But no matter, it's the process that is important. Welcome to the world economy, get in line or disappear.

CE750

that's a typical xenophobic exaggeration some Germans like to blow out of proportion inorder to make immigration laws tougher since they suffer a 11% unemployment rate.. YES there are many "ouslanders" working auto production, but there are far more Germans, and the supervisory levels of management are German.. The Poles, Hungarians, Turks, etc account for a minority.. that minority is an irritation to the German Labor Unions however. That said, todays German worker is a shadow of his father in my opinion... it's just like in our country... the generation that never saw hardship, war, economic depression doesn't understand the value of their labor.. and take less pride in their job... that said, the German worker combined with German engineering and production lines are still second to none IMHO..

Kubazzz

That's not true.

1. Mercedes doesn't advertise its cars as a perfectly made in germany vehicles
2. Mercedes builds its cars ONLY in Germany/Austria and USA.
3. Polish workers are one of the best in Europe. Polish GM/Opel factory has the best quality [what have astonished GM management] of all european GM factories, even better than those in Germany
Also VW builds its T-series [vans] in Poland and there are no problems.

The truth is that You CAN NOT expect that your car is 100% German, Swedish or French. You may see a badge "made in sweden" but when You disassemble your car, you'll find Bosh or Delphi pieces made no-one-knows-where.

Good quality can be achieved in every country but not in every factory.
That is why people are happy buying an OPEL made in Poland or a SKODA made in Czech Republic but they are afraid when they buy BMW made in Russia.
Though even if car is made in germany, probably a big percent of the people making that car were imigrants [in germany - Turks].

To be honest - the biggest junk comes from USA :p US cars are slightly better than russian, but not too much


edit: add:

I live in Poland, we have joined European Union last year, and I know lot about German Quality, Germany and Germans.
German Economy slowly collapses. They can't handle social encumbrances. They've banned workers from new EU members for 7 years!! They're going crazy!! Why?? Because their afraid of Poland [mostly poland because it's the biggest country in central Europe]. Polish workers can do better job but for lower salary. To me, it all looks silly when people talk about this sick situation but with lack of information. Truth is, that the term of 'national quality' is shattered. There is no more equality between "german" and "the best" or "polish/turkish" and "worst/poor". It tend to be like that but now it's more like an exception than a principle.
The key is a GOOD [not german/french/japanese] management not a country itself.

Ted Baldwin

.................maybe MB is finally looking for alternative to Robert Bosch. Read this:

Delphi Supplies the New M- And R-Class Mercedes-Benz With Rear Seat Entertainment Systems
TROY, Mich., Sept. 9, 2005; The Auto Channel reported that Delphi Corp. said it will provide the current range of new M- and R-Class Mercedes-Benz with a rear seat entertainment system as an optional accessory. In the next seven years, Delphi will supply Mercedes-Benz with up to 12,000 Delphi infotainment sets per year for the North American and European markets.

The system consisting of four high-tech entertainment components is an original Mercedes-Benz accessory provided by Mercedes-Benz Accessories GmbH which can be obtained after the market introduction of the vehicles at all Mercedes-Benz sales partners.

"We are very proud to have found such a well-known customer for our infotainment products in Mercedes-Benz. It shows us that the Delphi brand and our product strategy are definitely on the right track." says Michael Boe, Business Line Director for consumer electronics at Delphi Product & Service Solutions of the contracts with Mercedes-Benz.

The high-quality entertainment system consists of a flat 7" TFT display, a shock resistant DVD player, a remote control and two wireless headphones. The 16:9 format, 7" TFT display is perfect for moving images thanks to its high resolution and gives a clear image even at extreme viewing angles. A high- quality DVD player forms the digital core of the system. As well as video and audio DVD, the DVD player can, of course, also read music and data files in CD, CD-R, CD-RW, S-VCD and MP3-CD format, as well as photos in JPG format. Illuminated keys let the viewer keep control of the DVD player, even in the dark.

After short journey breaks or after the engine has been switched off, a special module enables the system to know exactly which content was played last -- so one does not have to go searching through the last film or music program.

For further information, visit our website at http://www.delphi.com/ or http://www.delphigrundig.com/ .


Ted

FlatlineEF9

A little off topic, but not so much.

About 2 months ago, my father told me that he was interested on looking for a new car. After a few weeks of looking he was indecisive between the E500 and the Lexus LS430. I tried to convince him to go for the E500, but he didnt like the brakes. In the end, he got the lexus.

JohnAMG

The assumption of all German workers are superior than everyone else in the world is blatantly ignorant and racism. I believed Adolf Hitler thought the same way. There are superior Asian workers whom produces high quality automobile, computer technology and the clothing on your back. We, Asian aren't stupid either. Look around the university campuses every where, both undergraduate and undergraduate. Look around your local hospitals and healthcare professionals. Look at the technology and science sectors. Get the point. We are intelligent, hard working and just as good as any fair skin northern european. So next time don't assume all Asian workers are Walmart quality and uneducated. I have 2 AMGs and I don't even have an attitude

John