vyruz

So, i meet this girl awhile ago, <insert love story here> and she is a Christian.

The question here is Marriage. We "love" each other and are at the point where we want to make commitments knowing that a few years down the line we are getting married. Lemme break the story to you.

Me - I was born into a non religious family Islamic family. My parents moved here from Iran in the 70s and they didnt believe in Islam. Today, i personally do not believe in islam either. I believe myself to be a pretty good person, am a firm believer of showing love to everyone(most of my beliefs reminisce Christianity) I BELIEVE in God. I like to look at every side of everything, and am a very open-minded person

Her - She is born into a a religious christian family. She is egyptian, born in the US just like me. She goes to the Eastern Coptic Orthodox church. Now this is where the story gets tricky. Her mom unfortunately passed away like 4 years ago. It was very hard on her, and it seemed around that time period she has lost faith in the chruch. She still goes, still practices Christianity, but she even tells me her faith is not strong(which i dont believe , either you have faith or not... but maybe im wrong). Her last relationship ended cuz he was catholic and she christian and she and her family wanted him to convert and he wanted her to convert. Now moving to us. when we meet, she warned me about her religion stance, that she could only be with a christian. After getting to know each other longer, we ended falling in love. Now the problem is that her dad does not want to meet me and tells her she cannot marry me unless im christian. Its been going on like this for a while now. She goes back on forth on how she feels. one minute she says u have to convertto christian to marry me the other is i will marry you even if your not BUT my dad wont let me. I dunno haha its really confusing.

Sorry its like 2 in the morning and im kinda tired typing this. I consider myself kinda a smart guy. I have had NUMEROUS convos regarding religion.

it seems she is relying on the fact that i would convert to christianity cuz i want to and not just to marry her. Which is true, but i dont know if i want to become christian. Here is WHy:

1) i dont beleive that if you are not a christian you will "burn in hell" like the bible states
2) The debate over evolution - doesnt this discredit the bible and religion in general?
3) The non acceptance of other religions is crazy to me. Why cant i be christian and believe that that other muslim guy or jew guy is going to heaven too? (well i know this, cuz thats the words of Jesus, and all he wanted is ppl to believe in him and they will go to heaven)
4) the discrimination of other people and religions
5) Did Jesus christ have a wife? kids? even tho he did or didnt, why couldnt he be a father and yet still be divine and do all the magical things he did? I mean for me to even think like this i would get kicked out of a church, but to me its possible and i dont want to think its not just cuz christianty tells me its not
6) so many problems with the bible, and the fact that we dont know even when it was wrtten can me that some information can be wrong or slightly off.
7) I WILL NOT TELL MY KIDS THAT THE MUST BE CHRISTIAN AND FORCE THEM TO CHURCH AND TELL THEM THEY CANNOT MARRY SOMEONE IF NOT THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN (I Believe in choice, if you are forced to love God, is that really Love? No ppl must decide themselves, and forcing my kids which at that time they wont be able to make the decision is something i do not want ot do. if they want ot becoming chrsitian when they can make that choice great. If they want to remain non religious and believe in god greaty. Islam? great. Buddhist? great. etc etc)


I am open to becoming christian but i DO NOT and WILL NOT adopt such things as "if you are not christian you will burn in hell" or any other irrational thing to me i read in the bible.



So i am stuck. She wants to Marry me yes. Her problem is her religion, and its tied to her family. It seems more that the fact that her family is religious and thats forcing her hand, otherwise we would be engaged already. She accepts me for who i am, and loves the way i dont jump to conclusions, and look at the bigger picture. We really fit well together, and i support her for her religion. I do not want her to stop her faith cuz of me.

any input would be great. Thanks guys, BTW im 23 and she is on her way into med school, and im on ym why to get my MBA, after taking a few years of of school to be a broker(damn real estate is sucking right now... haha)

whoover

You lost me at her last boyfriend. He was Catholic, not Christian? Does that mean than only Eastern Coptic Orthodox qualifies as Christian to her? If that's the case, you better either drink the Koolaid and convert or run while you can. If you decide to go the Coptic way, at least you can look forward to a very roomy, uncrowded heaven.

jmf003

Her church probably offers a membership class. My advice would be to attend the class, learn what they espouse, then decide what you want to do.

vwbuge

You said you believed in God. You are a Christian in my book.

sosh

How is this related to Mercedes?? I suggest that you see either a shrink or your pastor for any further discussion.

Tommy_s4

God is God. Allah and Jesus is just two different religions interpretations of the messaia. The son of god or gods second coming. I was born catholic and I was forced to go to a Catholic school and I hated it. But enough with me and back to the topic at hand. Personally I believe that it shouldn't matter what you believe in and all that should matter is if you both love each other. If she truly loves you it shouldn't be a matter of religion. It should be a matter of love.

BryanW203

Happines, love and honesty > religion.

faithful_lothario

all of that is included be it any religion.

ItalianStallion

I know many people cringe at the thought, but try to actually read one of the Gospels of the New Testament. They really aren't that long. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Pick one (preferably Matthew or John) and read it. That is the story of Christ and the basis for Christianity. From there, you can either learn more and get more involved, or you can write it off and turn away. You decide, but I think it would be foolish to turn away from what is so easily accessable.

PM me if you'd like to discuss this further, theres a good chance I'll just forget to check this post lol.

Hakk403

No, it doesn't.

Don't convert to christianity, you don't know anything about it. Maybe do some research first, or if you're not really religious, just "convert" to make her happy.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

An interesting essay, but long - http://www.theistic-evolution.com/th...evolution.html

I believe in evolution and creationism, there is no conflict. Bible even said, God made man out of the earth, that sounds like evolution to me.

curtis73

I was personally raised Christian but learned enough about organized religion that I got out. It can be pretty exclusive, hateful, and murderous; historically speaking. Individual churches and singular members are not corrosive. Their hearts are in the right place for the most part, but I am very much against organized religion

Each person has a personality that lends themselves to certain beliefs and practices. The **** person might take a more literal interpretation of the bible as fact, while the more laid back mind might take a more scientific approach. The truth (to me) is that there is one truth, and depending on which parts of that truth you learn, you kinda fit yourself in with a certain religion. Its kinda like an automotive engineer who designs engines for Mercedes may have had a bad personal experience with cast iron heads, so he/she might be of the aluminum religion. The whole truth is that every kind of head has its application. Meanwhile the GM engineer has bad experiences with aluminum heads because of poor foundry quality and is therefore a staunch believer that cast iron is right. Then all of the like-minded people band together in the Church of Mercedes Aluminum and the Church of GM Iron and preach one little facet of the whole truth as an absolute.

I would treat this much like wanting children. If she says she'll marry you only if you have a Vasectomy because she doesn't want children, but you want 6 boys, it might be a huge point of contention between you down the road. You could end up resenting the fact that you have to chant things you don't believe just so you could marry her.

My personal thought is, who cares what the parents think. If her dad won't meet you because you're not a Christian, then suddenly love you after you are one, he doesn't respect you or anything about you. He is making a ridiculous traditional requirement that has nothing to do with you. Its like saying he hates you because you're not christian... which is ironically un-christian of him.

If you love her and she is requiring you to comply with her parents' wishes before you get married, maybe you're not ready to get married. Its frustrating... I can tell the love is there, but if she's willing to put such a small requirement in the way of a huge commitment, something isn't quite right.

Your marriage is between you and your partner, not her parents. If you two love each other, focus on the commitments you make to EACH OTHER. If you jump through hoops for parents or a church to get to the prize, you'll always have some level of contempt for it. There will always be an imbalance in your "effort".

vyruz, your list of objections at the end are very enlightened, and very well thought out. They are a sign that you are very intelligent and think complexly. Those are all arguments that christians (including me back in the day) give when they are getting out of christianity. Given that you are already at this high state of understanding, I personally think that getting INTO a church would be a bad thing for you. You are remarkably close to the greater truth, so I wouldn't go back to Kindergarten.

To keep this Mercedes related, buy the dad a E-class as a bribe. Maybe that will shut his traditional *** up.

S5LorinserF1

you were Muslim and converted to chrisitian


Wow my friend you are REALLY REALLY LOW


ALLAH IS GOING TO BURN YOU IN HELL FIRE!!!!!!!



SCUM

ItalianStallion

Immature...thanks for showing love and contributing so much to this discussion...

Addicted2Speed

It sounds to me like you and your girlfriend and her family don't really have a good understand of what it means to be a Christian. The overall theme is that you're "supposed to love thy neighbor as thyself" and "do unto others as you would have them do to you", regardless of religious affiliation. If her father does not want to meet you and if she refuses to marry you because you are not Christian, that really goes against everything Christianity is supposed to be about. All this stuff about "if you're not Christian, you will burn in Hell" and discriminating against other people goes against the fundamental principles of Christianity - which are to respect your fellow men and treat others with compassion.

2k2s430

Original poster:

I am not trying to sound cruel or negative, but her problem isn't her religion. To her the problem is yours, she may not say it to your face or even admit that it is a problem, but it is. I know from personal experience, even if her father met you and acted like he approved he would still be giving her a hard time behind the scenes. I cal relationshipds like these love with a dead end, because 9 times ou of 10 it is a dead end. There maybe exceptions to my theory, but again I speak from personal experience of myself and several of my friends. Either she makes the choice to go against or seperate herself from those influences, if she doesn't your relationship will always be very difficult and complicated at least. I also do know people who have made the inter-faith thing work, but I also know those that everything was rosey until kids came into the picture. One couple in particular she was muslim he was catholic everything was great until they had their son. Then she started having problems with the fact that her son was eating pork producs when with his grand parents. Next thing you know divorce court! The two of you really need to sit down and discuss all the scenarios and really get down to business, and keep in mind feelings may get hurt but these details need to be brought to light. Bring up details like raising kids and any other concerns. You may upset each other with your feelings and responses but in the end at least everything will be on the table.

curtis73

Agreed, 2k2s. I remember when my fiancee's parents told her that they thought I was cheating on her because I wore a leather beaded "hippie" necklace. They based their entire objection on the fact that I wore a stylish representation of a free-love symbol from 30 years ago. I drove to their house and told them both to sit down and tell me what the hell they were thinking. Her dad (a short, catholic, italian, marine and vietnam vet, and father of an only daughter. Jesus himself wouldn't have been good enough for her) told me he wouldn't pay for our wedding if I was cheating on their daughter. I told him that I wasn't and in fact she had cheated on me early in the relationship, and I didn't need their wedding since our honeymoon included Vegas as one of the stops. I furthermore told him lightheartedly to go f*ck himself because its not about what you think, its about what my fiancee thinks. He started laughing because he had said basically the same thing to his wife's parents back in the day.

We later went to dinner, laughed, and we've been inseparable ever since. There is respect, love, and a lot of fun. My conversation wasn't confrontational or disrespectful, but it was a firm lay-down of the truth. I'm not suggesting you tell her father to go f*ck himself, but a firm (but respectful and loving) statement of what you believe is right for you might be respected and honored; most importantly by yourself. You have to own what you want and what you need, which of course requires a candid introspective discussion with yourself about it. I think you're on the right track; you've asked for outside opinion, but you have clear convictions of your own. You're not a Libra are you? You seem a lot like me

This might mean friction between you and your fiancee. If she's firm about your being a christian and you're firm about not, it might tempt you to give in and go through the motions to keep the woman you have. I must firmly suggest that IF you're going through the motions to keep the family happy that SHE gets full disclosure about your intentions. She needs to know that you're going through the motions. But, given what I've seen of your personality I think it will haunt you forever. You'll have contempt and spite for your in-laws and that might make just as much friction. She'll want to spend time with her family and you'll have trouble with it.

I had trouble with my in-laws and I went for broke with my little heart-to-heart (which is something I don't normally do). I figured that my fiancee and I were firm in our love, so I basically invited them along for the ride and accept it, or get the hell out of the car. Either way, my future wife and I were going for a ride.

We dated for 6 years and we've been married for 8. We've known each other since 1993. I'm not perfect, but I can say that finding the RIGHT woman is a beautiful thing. My wife and I are totally different people than when we met, but the inner compatibility we share is so remarkable. There is no jealousy, no contempt, nothing. Even if we're fighting, I look at her from a place of complete love. There is nothing that I dislike about her that festers in some dark corner of my heart.

I'm not suggesting you ditch this GF for a better one, but an excellent Mercedes-related analogy just happened to me. I bought a 96 Impala SS new when they came out. I've owned it and loved it ever since. I'm even passionate about it. It was the perfect car for me. Now I bought the wife a 99 E300, and it showed me what I was missing in the Impala. It also showed me that if this 175k-mile Benz is that much better... what else is out there that might be even better ?!? Long story short, I'm thinking about selling the SS after three days of owning a Benz.

That was a long way of saying (and I say this with absolute respect) if you have to ask someone for advice on it, it might not be the "one." You'll know it. That is so cliche' and oversaid, but its so true. I was actually in Europe when I decided to ask Kim to marry me. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. I had thought about it before, but being separated from her on a concert tour showed me. I called back to the states to a jeweler friend of mine and had him get some stones ready for me to look at when I came back. The rest is history... and a lot of sex.

A friend of mine once told me about how he believed that sacrificing adds value to whatever you make the sacrifice for. His analogies were buying a car or being in a commited monogamous relationship. If you want to buy a car about which you are passionate, maybe you get a second job. That sacrifice adds value to your desire for the car. I disagreed. It might add pride in yourself for making the necessary accomplishments to get what you want, but in the wrong dose it can cause contempt for both the car and the job because of what it represents. It can be an empty reward. The same is true of relationships in my opinion. If you sacrifice something for your mate; e.g. sex with others, becoming a christian, changing your views on offspring, you may be proving to yourself and your mate that you are willing to go the distance, but it doesn't change the level of your love; only defines it. Going above and beyond with a sacrifice that is greater than the definition of your love is where the imbalance begins. I could blow smoke up your butt and say that true love conquers anything, but in the real world we are still individuals. We're just individuals who have found one of the millions of possible compatible matches that make us happy and feel love.

So, you will have to decide if the sacrifice you would make by being christian would be less than or equal to the boundaries of your love. If it is, you can invest... but know that these sacrificial investments are cumulative. If you sacrifice 90% of its value with becoming christian there might not be much equity left. If you would sacrifice more than its value by becoming christian, its not a good thing. I just sacrificed buying a Harley for myself in order to buy a Mercedes for Kim. It was definitely a good investment.

I think that is maybe why you reached out to us. I think deep inside you're not asking us if we think you should or shouldn't, I think you're bouncing it off of us to see if the sacrifice is a good "investment" given the level of your love for her.

Or, you just really started an April Fool's joke to see how far it went

curtis73

There seem to be a lot of these on this forum. Have you seen some of Sosh's posts on my new E300 thread in the past couple days? Odd.

threatcon07

The problem is not her religion, but your thought process about the whole situation. I can understand you love this girl but for God's sake (literally) don't convert to Christianity just so you can marry this girl, especially when you have so many doubts and negative preconceptions about it. If you do end up converting just to get married, there could be some serious conflicts in the marriage later on if you decide you are tired of being Christian. Like someone said earlier, you could try going to a membership class at her church, or even attending a non-denominational church with her or alone. This way you can see if this is something you would be interested in learning more about. Also, I would recommend reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S Lewis, which is a great book to give you a basic understanding of Christianity and its tenets. (This is the book that led me to ultimately converting) Either way, I wish you two good luck and hope that both of you find happiness. As you said, treating other people well is what is important.

AMGV6K

differences in religion seemed to be ignored in young couples...

couples tend to revert to their religion when they are older