Does not sound good at all.
AMG Says No to Diesel
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IB Staff
Joined: Jul 2011
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AMG Says No to Diesel
Personally, I think Källenius is being a bit stubborn. Diesels can be incredibly fast! I think Mercedes-Benz focus has been building extraordinarily robust gas engines in recent years and don't see the need to use diesel, but I also think ignoring them completely is silly. What do you think?
AMG Says No To Diesel In Its Future
AMG Says No To Diesel In Its Future
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,160
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From: New York
14'G63 AMG ,1994 Mercedes E500, 2020 Range Rover HST
Didn't AMG make a diesel for European market at one point? I believe it was from the W203 line up??? Diesels have a great potential to make race engines of the future but so does electric motors???? Let's leave this for Mercedes to decide but I agree with you that this guy shouldn't say never!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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From: San Francisco, CA
2001 CLK55
Firstly I'm a big fan of diesels. The reason there is such a disparity between race bred diesels and common everyday diesels is because so few cars are sold with diesel motors, especially in the US. If the technology doesn't become more mainstream, the quality will never be there at an equivalent cost.
On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...
Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...
Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
Having driven a number of common rail diesels I can say that I'd be delighted to see Mercedes develop and bring a modern six liter turbodiesel to the USA market to power the S-Class.... If they would put a transmission behind it with enough ratios that can take the torque it would be a win-win-win.
Current diesels are not the stinky slow old junk that we all remember from the 1970s. There is much thanks and rejoicing!
Current diesels are not the stinky slow old junk that we all remember from the 1970s. There is much thanks and rejoicing!
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 210
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From: Louisville, KY
2014 Black SLK 55 AMG, Black 2015 GL 550, 2011 Blue GLK 350
Firstly I'm a big fan of diesels. The reason there is such a disparity between race bred diesels and common everyday diesels is because so few cars are sold with diesel motors, especially in the US. If the technology doesn't become more mainstream, the quality will never be there at an equivalent cost.
On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...
Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...
Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
Its very annoying that the US continues to ignore diesel applications and continues to sell Hybrids that cost $6-7K above the gas versions while MB sells diesels about $1K higher than the comparable gas models.
Enough on my rant about diesel sales.
As far as AMG and diesel, why not give it a try. They are putting twin turbos in gas engines to get horsepower and torque out of smaller engines. Why not use diesel. If you have driven one, you know how much torque they can have. I'm guessing the powers to be don't like the diesel sound compared to the gas versions. Heck, MB has even build a diesel SLK sports car in Europe but wont bring it to the US.
Come on MB, why be so stubborn?
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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From: San Francisco, CA
2001 CLK55
I agree that the lack of diesel vehicles in the US is frustrating, but car manufacturers are NOT to blame. Many people (Americans especially) are resistant to the idea of diesels, as they have a preconceived notion of loud motors that won't start in the cold, emit a horrible sulfurous odor, and leave a trail of soot wherever they go. This is, of course, not an accurate description of modern diesel engines, but how can a company be reasonably expected to offer a product that 90% of their market will not consider buying? (that is not a real #)
I think the question we must ask is who benefits by promoting gasoline engines over diesels... oil refineries maybe?
I'm not the most educated person on this topic, but I would guess a major part of the reason we don't see many diesels in the US is because somebody has something to lose, and they have the juice to prevent it...
Okay I'm finished.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 921
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From: Seattle, WA
(SOLD) 05 E55 Estate. 11 Golf TDi
true story;
On my 08 Duramax, it uses a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), what it does is capture all the soot that burning diesel fuel creates. When the DPF is full, the ECU uses fuel from the tank to superheat the exhaust to burn off the soot, and it exits the tailpipe as a impossible to see dust. When you are in "regeneration mode" (the name for the burning off process), your mileage goes down considerably.
So, the geniuses at the EPA have decided that in order to save the visible soot from coming out of the tailpipe, (think 1984 Diesel Rabbits) they USE fuel to stop it.
Makes sense huh? Use more fossil fuel to prevent sooty emissions?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 348
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From: Houston, Tx
2015 C63S
What confuses me a little is I recall a few years back reading a number of blog/news postings online saying that another attempt to make a "Super Hammer" was in the works. That would have been an AMG diesel according to those postings but then I never saw a peep about them again. I was really hoping to see this come out but long since gave up on the idea coming true. I just drive way too much to justify a gasser AMG and want a mixture of performance and economy that diesel vehicles are more than capable of given if designed right.
I am not sure if it is being stubborn or not though because these more expensive diesel cars probably have a very limited market appeal. BMW is not going to make just M diesels in the five series and will continue to make the M5 gasser. From what little I have read on the BMW it sounds more like a mixture of their M5 and regular 5 series when getting the M550xd(or what ever it is called) than to be purely getting an "M" car. I have seen estimates for the cost of that M diesel being around $100k USD even though not available in the US and quite frankly at that cost point I'd be looking at an E63 or CLS63 instead because the M diesel would be for a niche market, have probably poor resale value(even more so than an AMG does), and only big benifit would be nice fuel economy and I can brag about my clean tailpipes.
I am not sure if it is being stubborn or not though because these more expensive diesel cars probably have a very limited market appeal. BMW is not going to make just M diesels in the five series and will continue to make the M5 gasser. From what little I have read on the BMW it sounds more like a mixture of their M5 and regular 5 series when getting the M550xd(or what ever it is called) than to be purely getting an "M" car. I have seen estimates for the cost of that M diesel being around $100k USD even though not available in the US and quite frankly at that cost point I'd be looking at an E63 or CLS63 instead because the M diesel would be for a niche market, have probably poor resale value(even more so than an AMG does), and only big benifit would be nice fuel economy and I can brag about my clean tailpipes.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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From: San Francisco, CA
2001 CLK55
I would argue a diesel should maintain its value better than a comparable gas burning car, as the heavier engine and drive-train components help the motors last around 4 times as long. That along with rising fuel prices should make diesels more attractive in the future.
For example, the 2005 E320 and E320CDI both had a sticker price of $49k give or take a couple hundred. However, if you're looking for one right now, the CDI will be, on average, at least $1000 more expensive.
For example, the 2005 E320 and E320CDI both had a sticker price of $49k give or take a couple hundred. However, if you're looking for one right now, the CDI will be, on average, at least $1000 more expensive.
Last edited by njgilligan; Feb 13, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 348
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From: Houston, Tx
2015 C63S
I always believed diesel cars would maintain their values better. I have actually experienced the opposite of it with my 335d and actually why I have decided to keep it until it has problems. Just seems to me that the more performance orientated the diesel vehicles get the more niche appeal they end up having.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
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CL 500 w215
well if the diesel market does not sell enough to pay for the expenses to create and develop Diesel and such it will be left behind...
specially since the future is looking more and more electric / hydrogen as the years go by
specially since the future is looking more and more electric / hydrogen as the years go by
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Poor decision. MB diesels lag behind those of BMW as regards power and mileage and need to catch up (as the US does with Europe and their diesel sales).
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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From: San Francisco, CA
2001 CLK55
Hmm, I just read that Maserati plans to offer the Quattroporte with a V6 diesel that will make 300hp and 516ft-lbs of torque in 2013. I guess not everyone thinks that diesels don't belong in sporty vehicles.
