Dealer is voiding our warranty!
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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Dealer is voiding our warranty!
First, Thank you to all for the countless help/education we have received on MBWorld!!
My gf purchased a 2010 c300 CPO w/ 35K miles and paid for the extended Starmark warranty. The car now has 80K miles.
Last week her transmission started slipping. The car is at the dealership now. They called today and said that because they have no record of the 40K mile transmission service, she has to pay!?
She says she doesn't remember if the serv advisor asked her. She does admit if the they ever say its an "option" she usually declines, but if they say it will void you warranty, she is definitely the type of person to get it done (hence overpaying for the factory warranty to start with). I'm going to assume it's on an old work order as "owner declined" or mentioned some how.
What can we do?
My gf purchased a 2010 c300 CPO w/ 35K miles and paid for the extended Starmark warranty. The car now has 80K miles.
Last week her transmission started slipping. The car is at the dealership now. They called today and said that because they have no record of the 40K mile transmission service, she has to pay!?
She says she doesn't remember if the serv advisor asked her. She does admit if the they ever say its an "option" she usually declines, but if they say it will void you warranty, she is definitely the type of person to get it done (hence overpaying for the factory warranty to start with). I'm going to assume it's on an old work order as "owner declined" or mentioned some how.
What can we do?
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2
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ML350
Manufacturers can't force consumers to get a service at a certain service center to validate a warranty. If they require a certain service at their own facility, then they must provide it free of charge.
Per contract, you must perform certain services at your on discretion of service center, but not sure transmission service is required at 40K. Isn't it more like 100K? Check your service book for their recommended interval. Take the longer one. If they did specify a short, just claim that you did it at a indy. They can't prove that you didn't
Per contract, you must perform certain services at your on discretion of service center, but not sure transmission service is required at 40K. Isn't it more like 100K? Check your service book for their recommended interval. Take the longer one. If they did specify a short, just claim that you did it at a indy. They can't prove that you didn't
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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Thanks for the responses!!
Yes they did state that the 40K mile flush could have been performed anywhere but they needed to see the receipt.
Here's what happened:
Talked to 2 Benz mechanics now working at independants. Both basically said same thing. The transmission is the same one Benz has been using for years. They originally made it 100K flush but when so many were failing, they changed it to recommended 39K...exact same tranny. Since most pay between $300-$500 for the 39K flush, it makes up for the failed ones later. The caveat is they have to prove that the lack of the 39K service caused the damage when it does fail...but no one ever asks.
They suggested 1)Tell MBZ to keep the fluid so we could analyze. 2) If they decline warranty not to allow them to do the repair. An independant then could decipher the cause.
Did exactly that and told MBZ the above. I also added that we talked to several mechanics and they said the valve blocks are notorious for failing ($1800) and also that a 40K mi flush would not have any impact. They chimed back, oh yes it does if we find metal shaving in the fluid(?). She went on to say that the symptoms the car was having (falling out of gear at stop signs then lurching back into gear) was not the valve block.
She started to get annoyed and added "if service drops the pan and find its not warranted, you (owners) would be responsible for the flush cost ($400)". Wow, the ***** on these guys. I then said not to flush/refill it and we would have it towed.
Result: They kept the car for 2 days then called saying it was warrantied. We didn't have to pay a dime.
Yes they did state that the 40K mile flush could have been performed anywhere but they needed to see the receipt.
Here's what happened:
Talked to 2 Benz mechanics now working at independants. Both basically said same thing. The transmission is the same one Benz has been using for years. They originally made it 100K flush but when so many were failing, they changed it to recommended 39K...exact same tranny. Since most pay between $300-$500 for the 39K flush, it makes up for the failed ones later. The caveat is they have to prove that the lack of the 39K service caused the damage when it does fail...but no one ever asks.
They suggested 1)Tell MBZ to keep the fluid so we could analyze. 2) If they decline warranty not to allow them to do the repair. An independant then could decipher the cause.
Did exactly that and told MBZ the above. I also added that we talked to several mechanics and they said the valve blocks are notorious for failing ($1800) and also that a 40K mi flush would not have any impact. They chimed back, oh yes it does if we find metal shaving in the fluid(?). She went on to say that the symptoms the car was having (falling out of gear at stop signs then lurching back into gear) was not the valve block.
She started to get annoyed and added "if service drops the pan and find its not warranted, you (owners) would be responsible for the flush cost ($400)". Wow, the ***** on these guys. I then said not to flush/refill it and we would have it towed.
Result: They kept the car for 2 days then called saying it was warrantied. We didn't have to pay a dime.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 986
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From: Kingsville Ontario (South of Detroit)
2003 S500 4Matic (SOLD) + 2004 S55 (SOLD) 2005 CLK 500 Cabriolet 2008 S 450
I thought the mob only owned the casinos in Vegas. Have they branched out into Merc dealerships? It's almost a natural move.
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 156
Likes: 6
From: Pennsylvania, USA
2014 C300 Luxury
I'm glad you were able to get it covered under warranty in the end...
That being said, the transmission flush is in fact every 39K miles on the 2010 7G tranny. It is a known cause of failure to skip this service. It has been extensively and exhaustively discussed in the W204 forum here. Missing this service is to do so at your peril.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ce-thread.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-done-but.html
The 2013-2014 W204 7G+ tranny is allowed every 70K miles between services...
Your warranty does require you to perform maintenance. So I would ensure that your girlfriend knows what required services are in her service booklet prior to getting any services done. To be sure nothing is missed.
That being said, the transmission flush is in fact every 39K miles on the 2010 7G tranny. It is a known cause of failure to skip this service. It has been extensively and exhaustively discussed in the W204 forum here. Missing this service is to do so at your peril.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ce-thread.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-done-but.html
The 2013-2014 W204 7G+ tranny is allowed every 70K miles between services...
Your warranty does require you to perform maintenance. So I would ensure that your girlfriend knows what required services are in her service booklet prior to getting any services done. To be sure nothing is missed.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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More Problems.
Six months after the dealer changed the valve block in the tranny, the issue still exists ( gear slipping in 1st & 2nd, also lurching forward). NOW, they state is needs new tranny @ $5,435 + tx. They also state that MBUSA will NOT cover under the extended 7 yr 135k miles warranty because she failed to do the 39K tranny flush. They said the valve block was done under good will not warranty.
Everyone seems to have 2 opinions: 1) no flush no warranty, 2) MBZ should cover.
My point is...who cares. The fair thing to know if the flush would have prevented the failure. If it would have, its on the owner. If it had nothing to do with it, it's on MBZ.
Master MBZ techs have said you can only tell by examining the fluid.(?). Sounds fair.
Our problem: Obviously, we don't have the fluid now because of the previous valve block replacement.
Also, there are now numerous class action lawsuits regarding the 722.9 tranny-
http://gotaclassaction.com/mercedes-...-transmission/
So begins the fight with MBUSA. Just opened complaint today. Will update.
Six months after the dealer changed the valve block in the tranny, the issue still exists ( gear slipping in 1st & 2nd, also lurching forward). NOW, they state is needs new tranny @ $5,435 + tx. They also state that MBUSA will NOT cover under the extended 7 yr 135k miles warranty because she failed to do the 39K tranny flush. They said the valve block was done under good will not warranty.
Everyone seems to have 2 opinions: 1) no flush no warranty, 2) MBZ should cover.
My point is...who cares. The fair thing to know if the flush would have prevented the failure. If it would have, its on the owner. If it had nothing to do with it, it's on MBZ.
Master MBZ techs have said you can only tell by examining the fluid.(?). Sounds fair.
Our problem: Obviously, we don't have the fluid now because of the previous valve block replacement.
Also, there are now numerous class action lawsuits regarding the 722.9 tranny-
http://gotaclassaction.com/mercedes-...-transmission/
So begins the fight with MBUSA. Just opened complaint today. Will update.
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Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 35
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2001 C320
The biggest confusion i see happening right now is the difference between MBZ base warranty and the aftermarket extended warranty you have. They are not the same. MBZ can not force you to do maintenance to honor their base warranty. Thats actually a law i believe for all manufactures. If they could you couldn't get your oil changed anywhere with out buying allot more stuff. They are corporations after all.
Aftermarket or extended warranties are a different game all together because it is elective where as the factory base warranty is not. That means they can in fact do exactly that because they have your signature on some paper work saying they can. Now you said Starmark is the name and it definitely sounds like its through MBZ corporation its self. Even if it is, it is still elective which means they can set the rules them selves. As far as they look at it if you do what they require, they make money, if not they still made money from the warranty you voided and didn't even know it.
This should have been properly explained by the sales man at time of purchase of the extended warranty or at the very least your service writer.
That being said you still have a case so keep fighting.
Aftermarket or extended warranties are a different game all together because it is elective where as the factory base warranty is not. That means they can in fact do exactly that because they have your signature on some paper work saying they can. Now you said Starmark is the name and it definitely sounds like its through MBZ corporation its self. Even if it is, it is still elective which means they can set the rules them selves. As far as they look at it if you do what they require, they make money, if not they still made money from the warranty you voided and didn't even know it.
This should have been properly explained by the sales man at time of purchase of the extended warranty or at the very least your service writer.
That being said you still have a case so keep fighting.
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
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Update: No transmission flush voids warranty!
Almost a year later and finally got the car repaired...kind of.
We escalated the original complaint to regional service director. They were adamant that customer denial of " the recommended transmission flush at 39K" automatically voids any transmission warranty. They would not budge and 3 times referred us back to the dealer.
We consulted an atty. He suggested small claims but said we would have to get the tranny fixed and prove the flush had nothing to do with the failure. Interesting thing is he showed us the class action law suit regarding the 722.9/7G-Tronic tranny (we're automatically included). He also mentioned that since we had it in for the original problem 3 times, we could go the CA Lemon Law route.
Armed with this we went back to the dealer.
The dealer agreed to supply the labor for $350 + parts (fluid etc. ~$250) if we supplied the tranny...you heard right. I wanted to fight more. My girlfriend said she wanted it fixed. By now the car lurching was a safety hazard. I found a used tranny with 1 yr warranty at LKQ for $800. Total about $1,500 (as opposed to $5K+)
What a joke. Lessons learned: 1) ask service adviser to put in writing if any denied/postponed services voids warranty. 2) Dealer and MB Corporate are 2 different beasts. They are like cops and the court system. They work together but work against each other so not to have blame. 3) Dealers are actually scared of MB Corp. Use this to your advantage. The more you complain to MBCorp the more it hurts the dealer.
WARNING!!! ANY 722.9 called the 7G Tronic YOU MUST GET THE 39k FLUSH !!!! ( this tranny is in the majority of Benz cars).
We escalated the original complaint to regional service director. They were adamant that customer denial of " the recommended transmission flush at 39K" automatically voids any transmission warranty. They would not budge and 3 times referred us back to the dealer.
We consulted an atty. He suggested small claims but said we would have to get the tranny fixed and prove the flush had nothing to do with the failure. Interesting thing is he showed us the class action law suit regarding the 722.9/7G-Tronic tranny (we're automatically included). He also mentioned that since we had it in for the original problem 3 times, we could go the CA Lemon Law route.
Armed with this we went back to the dealer.
The dealer agreed to supply the labor for $350 + parts (fluid etc. ~$250) if we supplied the tranny...you heard right. I wanted to fight more. My girlfriend said she wanted it fixed. By now the car lurching was a safety hazard. I found a used tranny with 1 yr warranty at LKQ for $800. Total about $1,500 (as opposed to $5K+)
What a joke. Lessons learned: 1) ask service adviser to put in writing if any denied/postponed services voids warranty. 2) Dealer and MB Corporate are 2 different beasts. They are like cops and the court system. They work together but work against each other so not to have blame. 3) Dealers are actually scared of MB Corp. Use this to your advantage. The more you complain to MBCorp the more it hurts the dealer.
WARNING!!! ANY 722.9 called the 7G Tronic YOU MUST GET THE 39k FLUSH !!!! ( this tranny is in the majority of Benz cars).
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
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You are absolutely correct. Original warranties and extended warranties are treated differently. Original ones are covered by state and federal guidelines. Even if they are from the manufacturer, extended warranties are looked at as service agreements and are subject to the actual contract verbiage.
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2013 glk 350
Is it in your manual that it needs a 40000 flush, my 2013 722.9 Trans doesn't have it in the maintenance schedule manual at 40k. So if it's not in your given literature , how could you know. You bought a certified used vehicle, somewhere in your sales lit, contract, that you signed, it states what manuals you received . They have your email , if they sent you the 40k flush change they would have proof. Now it's just their word , your provided manual would be what the judge looks at. Some place small claims is 5- 10000 max and only takes a few months. Demand proof you were notified, or threaten to take them to court if they make you pay.
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 156
Likes: 6
From: Pennsylvania, USA
2014 C300 Luxury
Is it in your manual that it needs a 40000 flush, my 2013 722.9 Trans doesn't have it in the maintenance schedule manual at 40k. So if it's not in your given literature , how could you know. You bought a certified used vehicle, somewhere in your sales lit, contract, that you signed, it states what manuals you received . They have your email , if they sent you the 40k flush change they would have proof. Now it's just their word , your provided manual would be what the judge looks at. Some place small claims is 5- 10000 max and only takes a few months. Demand proof you were notified, or threaten to take them to court if they make you pay.
<2013 = 7G Tronic = Must have flush at 39K
>2013 = 7G Tronic Plus = Must have Flush ~80K* miles
* I don't have my manual at hand so I could be off a bit, but the base point is the requirement varies based on the underlying transmission.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 1
Thanks again for the thoughts!
When we escaladed it to corporate, they asked for a receipt that the flush was done. They didn't care if was from an independant or actual dealer.
What they went off of was the actual repair order back at 40K miles. It specifically says on that order the the customer declined these services: Flush, 2 brakes that were barely above specs and 2 new tires.
Based on your comments I will ask her to look at her owners manual.
Thanks again!
When we escaladed it to corporate, they asked for a receipt that the flush was done. They didn't care if was from an independant or actual dealer.
What they went off of was the actual repair order back at 40K miles. It specifically says on that order the the customer declined these services: Flush, 2 brakes that were barely above specs and 2 new tires.
Based on your comments I will ask her to look at her owners manual.
Thanks again!
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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More issues! Now they flip flopped on a prior warranty decline??!! [ Thank you MB World!]
I read on these forums that many have had the peeling of the silver trim on the cup holders replaced under warranty. We have it documented that when she asked the dealer to fix this at 40K miles they declined saying it was normal wear and tear. 3 yrs later, after reading it here, I took copies of the blog to the dealer last week.
After a couple days (because they said they had to contact corporate) they now said they would offer us 50% off! What a load of bull! The dealer stated that they had to replace the entire center console trim at a total of $600! And that they would "share" the cost because the car now has 80K miles and the useful life of the cup holders was half over??
As a side note: The dealer also declined fixing the little numbers on the radio and steering wheels after they started falling off. They state that drivers hand lotion or using Armour All makes them peel off(true dealer response).
I read on these forums that many have had the peeling of the silver trim on the cup holders replaced under warranty. We have it documented that when she asked the dealer to fix this at 40K miles they declined saying it was normal wear and tear. 3 yrs later, after reading it here, I took copies of the blog to the dealer last week.
After a couple days (because they said they had to contact corporate) they now said they would offer us 50% off! What a load of bull! The dealer stated that they had to replace the entire center console trim at a total of $600! And that they would "share" the cost because the car now has 80K miles and the useful life of the cup holders was half over??
As a side note: The dealer also declined fixing the little numbers on the radio and steering wheels after they started falling off. They state that drivers hand lotion or using Armour All makes them peel off(true dealer response).
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 705
Likes: 55
From: LA LA Land
'08 C300 MM Pano
No proof it was serviced, the manufacturer is not under any obligation to offer warranty repairs.
Here it is from the Federal Trade Commission website:
Tips To Avoid Warranty Issues
Here's how to get the most out of your vehicle's warranty:- Keep all service records and receipts, regardless of who performs the service. This includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, new brake pads, and inspections. Create a file to keep track of repairs; it will come in handy if you have to use your warranty. If you ever have a warranty claim and it appears that you did not maintain your vehicle, your claim could be denied.
I realize the issue this thread was initially started for may have already been dealt with... But what case did the OP still have?
He does not have a receipt showing transmission service was done @ 40k miles. And dealer can show that the 40k mile service was recommended to customer at the time, but customer declined to have it done
So not only is there no proof it was NOT done, there is proof it was recommended and refused! So can you elaborate on what case a customer might have if they fail to properly maintain their vehicle and then request warranty repair?
Last edited by IGB; Apr 22, 2017 at 06:27 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 705
Likes: 55
From: LA LA Land
'08 C300 MM Pano
Is it in your manual that it needs a 40000 flush, my 2013 722.9 Trans doesn't have it in the maintenance schedule manual at 40k. So if it's not in your given literature , how could you know.
......
Demand proof you were notified, or threaten to take them to court if they make you pay.
......
Demand proof you were notified, or threaten to take them to court if they make you pay.
In other words, I can get a car, drive it around for 80k miles, and unless the seller gave me a copy of the service schedule (and forced me to read it as well) then the seller is obligated to cover any and all repairs resulting from my failure to properly maintain my own vehicle?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 1
"So what you are saying is that the customer bears no responsibility in acquiring the information to help them properly maintain their own vehicle!"
No, that is not what we are saying. Two points: 1) If MB requires a service that voids a warranty they should state that. This service specifically says "recommended" with no reference to warranty. If you google it, or look at any MB literature, you will not find it anywhere. 2) The real point is whether the flush is the cause, directly or indirectly, of the failure. If it is, there is no issue.
Unfortunately for MB, they have not been able to correlate the two and have just lost the summary judgment. [ Mercedes-Benz Defective Transmission Class Action Lawsuit is Charlie A. Jacquo-Stevenson, et. al., v. Mercedes-Benz USA LLC, Case No. 2:16-cv-00727 in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.].
If MB follows what they did after they lost the class action suit against their defective M272 & M273 engines, it will be another 5 yrs before we get a check.
Also, just ask any MB tech and they are all aware of the problem of the 722.9 tranny and it's not flush related.
No, that is not what we are saying. Two points: 1) If MB requires a service that voids a warranty they should state that. This service specifically says "recommended" with no reference to warranty. If you google it, or look at any MB literature, you will not find it anywhere. 2) The real point is whether the flush is the cause, directly or indirectly, of the failure. If it is, there is no issue.
Unfortunately for MB, they have not been able to correlate the two and have just lost the summary judgment. [ Mercedes-Benz Defective Transmission Class Action Lawsuit is Charlie A. Jacquo-Stevenson, et. al., v. Mercedes-Benz USA LLC, Case No. 2:16-cv-00727 in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.].
If MB follows what they did after they lost the class action suit against their defective M272 & M273 engines, it will be another 5 yrs before we get a check.
Also, just ask any MB tech and they are all aware of the problem of the 722.9 tranny and it's not flush related.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1
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2003 S600L
Well, unfortunately this sounds like a typical Mercedes issue. Having driven MB cars for over 20 years, I decided to swap our 06 ML500 against a LandCruiser. Not only the 7G-Tronic gave constant headache besides shifting terrible and at way to high rpms, it finally went several times into limp mode etc. .The car has 88k (!) miles, all Mercedes dealer scheduled maintenance performed. You would think this is low mileage for a Mercedes. Not true. We have already replaced the shocks (ABC suspension... expensive...), rear air bags (cracked),lower control arms, upper control arms, stabilizer end links and center bushings, steering wheel controls, steering column control module, and the ride is still very harsh, not to mention the clocking noise from the steering column (dealer said he can start to "investigate"). So many more parts replaced, thousands spent. Wood trim in the center console is cracked, too. Ohh, I forgot, we had to replace the front diff due to extremely loud grinding noises, too. When disassembling, they found worn bearings and their pieces inside. Not even 100k miles and all that? Mercedes? I am looking forward to Japanese quality.
Sad but true.
Still keeping our S600 with 10k miles, though....
Sad but true.
Still keeping our S600 with 10k miles, though....
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2019
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R350
vegasofficer
Thanks for the responses!!
Yes they did state that the 40K mile flush could have been performed anywhere but they needed to see the receipt.
Here's what happened:
Talked to 2 Benz mechanics now working at independants. Both basically said same thing. The transmission is the same one Benz has been using for years. They originally made it 100K flush but when so many were failing, they changed it to recommended 39K...exact same tranny. Since most pay between $300-$500 for the 39K flush, it makes up for the failed ones later. The caveat is they have to prove that the lack of the 39K service caused the damage when it does fail...but no one ever asks.
They suggested 1)Tell MBZ to keep the fluid so we could analyze. 2) If they decline warranty not to allow them to do the repair. An independant then could decipher the cause.
Did exactly that and told MBZ the above. I also added that we talked to several mechanics and they said the valve blocks are notorious for failing ($1800) and also that a 40K mi flush would not have any impact. They chimed back, oh yes it does if we find metal shaving in the fluid(?). She went on to say that the symptoms the car was having (falling out of gear at stop signs then lurching back into gear) was not the valve block.
She started to get annoyed and added "if service drops the pan and find its not warranted, you (owners) would be responsible for the flush cost ($400)". Wow, the ***** on these guys. I then said not to flush/refill it and we would have it towed.
Result: They kept the car for 2 days then called saying it was warrantied. We didn't have to pay a dime.
Yes they did state that the 40K mile flush could have been performed anywhere but they needed to see the receipt.
Here's what happened:
Talked to 2 Benz mechanics now working at independants. Both basically said same thing. The transmission is the same one Benz has been using for years. They originally made it 100K flush but when so many were failing, they changed it to recommended 39K...exact same tranny. Since most pay between $300-$500 for the 39K flush, it makes up for the failed ones later. The caveat is they have to prove that the lack of the 39K service caused the damage when it does fail...but no one ever asks.
They suggested 1)Tell MBZ to keep the fluid so we could analyze. 2) If they decline warranty not to allow them to do the repair. An independant then could decipher the cause.
Did exactly that and told MBZ the above. I also added that we talked to several mechanics and they said the valve blocks are notorious for failing ($1800) and also that a 40K mi flush would not have any impact. They chimed back, oh yes it does if we find metal shaving in the fluid(?). She went on to say that the symptoms the car was having (falling out of gear at stop signs then lurching back into gear) was not the valve block.
She started to get annoyed and added "if service drops the pan and find its not warranted, you (owners) would be responsible for the flush cost ($400)". Wow, the ***** on these guys. I then said not to flush/refill it and we would have it towed.
Result: They kept the car for 2 days then called saying it was warrantied. We didn't have to pay a dime.
vegasofficer: what do you mean by "She went on to say that the symptoms the car was having (falling out of gear at stop signs then lurching back into gear) was not the valve block."
I am asking this as something similar is happenign to my vehicle too. when ever I am on a slight uphill and on the stop sign, I stop and when i depress the gas pedal/accelerate the vehicle is like lurching back (like sudden breaking). My indy mechanic is suggesting a transmiaaion flush. Did the flush help you in resolving. And are the symptoms same what I am facing?
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