Gojirra99

Source: Autoexpress.co.uk

Thursday 25th March 2004

S69 Ups The Ante In Battle Of The Giants

At the other end of the scale from the A-Class, Merc is building a luxury saloon with supercar performance. As the power struggle between AMG and the German maker's other affiliated tuner Brabus intensifies, the former is working on a new flagship, the S69 AMG.

Producing in excess of 675bhp, the model is set to be the wildest S-Class yet, with a larger-capacity version of the 6.0-litre bi-turbo V12 from the S65 (right). With torque expected to be in excess of 1,000Nm, finding a reliable transmission to handle it will have been difficult - but our sources say engineers have managed to do so. In preparation for the introduction of the newcomer, Mercedes has registered the S69 trademark, along with SL69 and CL69. That means we've got a whole range of flagships to look forward to.

MBE55AMG

Holy moly! Beats the Ferrari Enzo's HP rating!

Hakk403

Here's the link to the story, same as what he posted...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?http:/...y.php?id=45273

Guest0001

I think its getting out of hand. they need to spend more time with there quality of materials and build quality rather than having 800 hp.

benzboy56

Amen! I totally agree...

MB AMG

RU_MATRX

In regards to the AMGs, how about more focus on the handling and lightening of the vehicle? Is Mercedes trying to make the fastest drag car for German bragging rights? A little investment and update in technology like a DVD-based GPS would help, not to mention a 7speed AMG.

mbtech208

I also agree. The German horsepower wars are getting a little out of control. How about making the existing technology work better? Who needs a premium-fuel-only 500-600 horsepower car at a time of $2.50/gallon? Dump the money-losing Maybach too, I don't see that brand being around for too long.

Guest0001

I think a nice V8 around 350 horses is great. I am waiting until MB upgrades there 5.0 L V8. They have been sitting on it for over 15 years.

mbtech208

The current 5.0 liter 113-series V8 has only been around since the 1999 model year. The 119-series before that was made from 1990-1999.

Guest0001

In what car?

Isnt it the same since the 89 SL500? well a modified version.

When i said same i mean from an HP output. They have actualy lowered it.

mbtech208

The '99 SL500 was the first car with the 5.0-liter new generation V8. The '89 560SL was the old 107 body SL, which had a 117-series V8. The 1990 500SL (129 body) had the 119-series V8, which was also used in the '97 E420 and the W140 S-class. Confused yet?

Guest0001

thanks for the clarifcation. you know your stuff! In your opinion which was the best NA V8 they have made... Power, smoothness, and reliablity.

mbtech208

I'd say any of the new 113-series V8 engines are the most well-rounded of the V8s. These include the 4.3, 5.0, and 5.4 AMG engines. If the topic is six-cylinder engines, the new V6s are best in terms of reliability, but the inline-sixes were better in terms of a broad powerband and smooth running.

Guest0001

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback again.

One more question to you. Would you keep a post 2000 MB past its warranty period? Why and why not?

mbtech208

That all depends on what model.

Guest0001

How about the one in my sig.

ajayz

I think MB needs to work more on handling and driver feel rather than producing more and more horsepower. What use is 10000 HP if you can't handle or control it?

MB AMG

Exactly! 100%! Mercedes has 2 versions of the M119, the 4.2L and the 5.0L.

DslBnz

Personally I think it's at least even between the M119 and the M113. In what way is the M113 superior to the M119? The M113 is obviously easier to do minor servicing on(oil filter on top and not under airbox), but the M119 has 8 less plugs to change...

The M119 is slightly more powerful given equal displacement between the two engines.

mbtech208

The 113's plugs need less frequent changing, and even then they are not that hard. Harder than the 119 yes, but not as hard as say, some front wheel drive cars:p
The 119 also tends to develop a LOT more oil leaks from numerous areas, and have problems with the camshaft oiler tubes blowing caps off and causing lifter ticking. The 113 also feels smoother and more refined. Drive a '97 E420 and a '98 E430 back to back, and there's a huge difference.

MB AMG

Doesn't the M113 have a larger torque band than the M119? The M119 has 90% of its torque available at 1500 RPM, but it doesn't feel so starting off in second gear...

mbtech208

I'm not sure what the overall torque curve for either engine looks like, but I know the torque peaks at a lower RPM in the 113 than in the 119.