German publication rates MB #31 out of 32 and...
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
German publication rates MB #31 out of 32 and...
I just read in Automobile Magazine that a well know German auto publication rated MB #31 out of 32 for reliability, value etc!!! Even their own kind have realized the marque has slipped to the bottom of the barrel. Schrempp started all this back in 1996 when he demanded much cheaper parts from MB's suppliers...what did he expect would happen? Now he gets another term in office primaraly due to the on going lawsuit brought by Kurt K. See if they fired Schrempp it would only add to the credibilty of K.K."s accusations that Schrempp was a fool (to put it simply).
BTW Have you guys seen the pics of the new C6 Corvette in the latest Auto week(March 15 th pp23)? There is a picture highlighting the lines of the car from above and the side, there are some curves and lines of the 63-67 Stingrays I've never noticed in other pics. The car is very very nice looking. Yes I know, I've owned vettes too and they've never been as tightly screwed together as I'm used to, but I look forward to driving this new 400hp sexy looking sled
BTW Have you guys seen the pics of the new C6 Corvette in the latest Auto week(March 15 th pp23)? There is a picture highlighting the lines of the car from above and the side, there are some curves and lines of the 63-67 Stingrays I've never noticed in other pics. The car is very very nice looking. Yes I know, I've owned vettes too and they've never been as tightly screwed together as I'm used to, but I look forward to driving this new 400hp sexy looking sled
Last edited by RJC; Mar 26, 2004 at 11:05 PM.
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
I have faith in MB that they will come back up thru the ranks. From what I've read in various magazines, MB recognizes the problem and promises that changes will be coming in the near future starting with the new models that are soon coming out. More (50% increase) in QC testing of electronics and such so that they have less of a chance to fail when it's in consumers hands, better materials in building, cabin, etc.
I think it's starting to show MB's promise on this starting with the new SLK. Every review so far that has been written has noted MB's use of better quality material and a more solid, MB like feel to the car.
So IMO, MB is coming back, just slowly through the new models. Only time will tell.
I think it's starting to show MB's promise on this starting with the new SLK. Every review so far that has been written has noted MB's use of better quality material and a more solid, MB like feel to the car.
So IMO, MB is coming back, just slowly through the new models. Only time will tell.
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From: NY
2014 E550 4matic,, sold 2012 E 350 4matic,,sold 2010 e350 4w,sold 2002 e320 se
I guess some of the lower echelon MB people haven't heard the doom and gloom yet,cause these cars sure do hold their value.Having bought and owned about 30 US and Japanese cars,I had become accustomed to heaving cash out the window.And believe me,I'm as patriotic as the next guy but enough already.
The benz is the other side of the spectrum,and certainly attainable for its value in the long run.mho.
The benz is the other side of the spectrum,and certainly attainable for its value in the long run.mho.
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From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
hi guys,
the surveys that we see might be the result of some of the cars
produced between 98 and 02. imho probably not MB's
best efforts. since though if you look at each new intro
the product is much improved. MB is imho putting out
much better product.
RJC....i believe in schrempp. MB had to change to stay competitive. even the Chrylser deal will be a winner in
the long run. i read an article a few years ago on how many
man hours it took each manufacturer to assemble an auto.
MB took forever compared to their japanese counterparts.
this had to change. in the process i feel that quality dropped
but if you look at the newer models it easy to see that the
quality is improving.
i had an 00E430 sport and 00 ML430. the new E's put my 00 to
shame in almost every way and even the newer ML's drive and feel much improved over the first 2 or 3 year productions. it's happening slowly but MB's are getting better.
the surveys that we see might be the result of some of the cars
produced between 98 and 02. imho probably not MB's
best efforts. since though if you look at each new intro
the product is much improved. MB is imho putting out
much better product.
RJC....i believe in schrempp. MB had to change to stay competitive. even the Chrylser deal will be a winner in
the long run. i read an article a few years ago on how many
man hours it took each manufacturer to assemble an auto.
MB took forever compared to their japanese counterparts.
this had to change. in the process i feel that quality dropped
but if you look at the newer models it easy to see that the
quality is improving.
i had an 00E430 sport and 00 ML430. the new E's put my 00 to
shame in almost every way and even the newer ML's drive and feel much improved over the first 2 or 3 year productions. it's happening slowly but MB's are getting better.
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Various
Aside from the technological improvements over time (a give in) take an SEL from any period prior to say the last generation and compare it to a new S Class. The former cars were built like a bank vault and the quality of the materials used were far superior. There is a reason MB went so far down in every quality survey and Schrempp was a big part of the problem looking for the cheaper way out hoping the three pointed star would blind everyone...it didn't and people caught on very quickly. I do think it's now gotten so bad that for the 05 MY cars MB will have made some big improvements and new models after that will be even better. Remember when Mb went to the current modular engines back in 99? Well they cost over 50% less to produce than the previous DOHC 4 valve engines, yes the new ones perform well but have much noisier valve trains and all, yes all non AMG engines suffer from a weed whacker sound from the cams upon reving the engine, this too is from cheaper cams which have less precise grinding of the lobes. The MB engines have no variable valve and or cam timing so they require a larger displacement and accompanying gas guzzler tax to make the same or less power than their more sophisticated competitors. The good new is starting with the new 3.5 Mb is returning back to more sophisticated and better power producing engines. I know lots of you love your cars, I love mine too but it's no where near as well built as the beloved benzes of yore. Hopefully we can have the best of both worlds again and very soon. 
Last edited by RJC; Mar 27, 2004 at 10:49 PM.
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From: Florida
2002 CLK 55 AMG Coupe ;)
Originally posted by RJC
... I know lots of you love your cars, I love mine too but it's no where near as well built as the beloved benzes of yore. Hopefully we can have the best of both worlds again and very soon. [/B]
... I know lots of you love your cars, I love mine too but it's no where near as well built as the beloved benzes of yore. Hopefully we can have the best of both worlds again and very soon.
[/B]
Outsourcing is a huge dilemma!
Frankly, I think that the Japanese are better negotiators, - for many reasons, including proximity, - with the PRC. That is why their products rank tops when is comes to QUALITY OUTSOURCING in the Far East.
PS
I might get the C6 for a couple of months till I get my first speeding ticket; i.e. doing 43 in a 35 mph zone...
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From: Baltimore/DC area
2014 E350S4
I've been worried about the quality of MB's recent offerings as well. Their slide in reliability, etc. has been well documented. The good news is there's nowhere to go but up from here!
RJC, I agree that cars "back in the day" were much better made and of more vintage MB standards. I think the reason they started using cheaper parts, though, is because people complained that the cars were too expensive... So what do you expect, you know? If you're gonna complain that they're too expensive, then expect cheaper parts! Frankly, I'd rather pay more for better quality...
Anyway, hopefully the new SLK is the start of a "new" Mercedes marque. I've heard nothing but good so far. Now, if they would just work on adding manuals and better handling to their "sporty" cars, I'd be in love again.
RJC, I agree that cars "back in the day" were much better made and of more vintage MB standards. I think the reason they started using cheaper parts, though, is because people complained that the cars were too expensive... So what do you expect, you know? If you're gonna complain that they're too expensive, then expect cheaper parts! Frankly, I'd rather pay more for better quality...
Anyway, hopefully the new SLK is the start of a "new" Mercedes marque. I've heard nothing but good so far. Now, if they would just work on adding manuals and better handling to their "sporty" cars, I'd be in love again.
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Thread Starter
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
Originally posted by karl k
PS
I might get the C6 for a couple of months till I get my first speeding ticket; i.e. doing 43 in a 35 mph zone...
PS
I might get the C6 for a couple of months till I get my first speeding ticket; i.e. doing 43 in a 35 mph zone...
Thread Starter
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
Originally posted by Incendiary
I've been worried about the quality of MB's recent offerings as well. Their slide in reliability, etc. has been well documented. The good news is there's nowhere to go but up from here!
RJC, I agree that cars "back in the day" were much better made and of more vintage MB standards. I think the reason they started using cheaper parts, though, is because people complained that the cars were too expensive... So what do you expect, you know? If you're gonna complain that they're too expensive, then expect cheaper parts! Frankly, I'd rather pay more for better quality...
Anyway, hopefully the new SLK is the start of a "new" Mercedes marque. I've heard nothing but good so far. Now, if they would just work on adding manuals and better handling to their "sporty" cars, I'd be in love again.
I've been worried about the quality of MB's recent offerings as well. Their slide in reliability, etc. has been well documented. The good news is there's nowhere to go but up from here!
RJC, I agree that cars "back in the day" were much better made and of more vintage MB standards. I think the reason they started using cheaper parts, though, is because people complained that the cars were too expensive... So what do you expect, you know? If you're gonna complain that they're too expensive, then expect cheaper parts! Frankly, I'd rather pay more for better quality...
Anyway, hopefully the new SLK is the start of a "new" Mercedes marque. I've heard nothing but good so far. Now, if they would just work on adding manuals and better handling to their "sporty" cars, I'd be in love again.
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From: Hell
EFF YOU JACKIE
Unfortunately this is all so true. 02' CLK430 that I went to trade in a few days ago. OMG! Paid 60+ for it, has 30k miles on it, and the dealer wanted to give me 22K for it. 22K! WTF! Are you kidding?!? It is a horrible thing the way this car depreciates so rapidly. It is such a beautiful car, and I can't even drive it. Between the weather, the little quirks, and now every single mile will cost me another 500 off the value. Un-real. I guess that is what you get for mass producing cars under the Chrysler name. Lets face it, Chrysler and Benz may have merged, but most americans that you ask, think Benz is now a "Chrysler". That is the first thing people say to me. "Yeah, but its a Chrysler owned Company."
Great makes me feel real happy!
Great makes me feel real happy!
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From: Randolph, New Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
I really can't say -
I only owned a ///AMG - if there is a difference in build from the standard MB platform - I thought my CLK55 was built very well, solid, balanced and comfortable, the interior components were not cheap at all - My only complain would be the electrical and computers - It appears the service tech really don't know enough about coding and read outputs when debugging engine faults. I still think it's one of the best cars I have ever owned. Now my wife gets to enjoy the beast...
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EFF YOU JACKIE
No, I want 40k for it. No pain, just a PITA.
BTW, 5439cc, didn't you just find out that your car is worth 40% of what you paid for it, and only after 2 years?
BTW, 5439cc, didn't you just find out that your car is worth 40% of what you paid for it, and only after 2 years?
Last edited by ldangeli; Apr 1, 2004 at 09:53 AM.
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From: Arlington,Texas
2001 CLK 430 Silver
The original owner purchased My CLK 430, Oct 2001 , I bought it for 25,000.00 less than what he paid for it , I always buy lightly used and get extended 7-100,000 warranty, I have had good luck buying used and save that first 2-3 years of depreciation, not for everyone but has worked for me 
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
Predicted reliability
These new models received the highest and lowest ratings in Consumer Reports' most recent reliability survey. Models are listed in alphabetical order by manufacturer, within each vehicle category.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...iablechart.htm
These new models received the highest and lowest ratings in Consumer Reports' most recent reliability survey. Models are listed in alphabetical order by manufacturer, within each vehicle category.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...iablechart.htm
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Arlington,Texas
2001 CLK 430 Silver
Well, I just sold one of those most reliable Lexus , That had alot of electrical problems, THAT no one could figure out , plus transmission problems, so go figure, ITS A SURVEY, look at the split on the cars, people that drive high dollar cars, LOVE TO ***** about little things all the time, My son has a Civic and he expects it to have a few rattles because it wasn't a 60,000.00 dollar car , so he just drives it and skips the *****ing
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2004 Lexus ES 330 NAV/ML
Big Terry - please tell us specifically what the many electrical and transmission problems that you had with a Lexus. Also, Model? Year? Mileage? Time owned?
Last edited by Gekko; Apr 1, 2004 at 11:18 PM.
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From: Arlington,Texas
2001 CLK 430 Silver
Es 300 97--85,000-miles, Electrical probs , windows worked intermittently, short in tail lights, short in interior lights, short in dash lights, transmission shifted real hard into OD sometimes
