GL Diesel?
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GL Diesel?
Does anyone know (links appreciated) if and when the diesel GL class is coming to the US? (that is assuming there is a diesel GL class planned which I would think there is but Im no expert on SUVs) the reason I ask is my dad really likes the new GL and the overall idea of owning such a large SUV since my family moves around alot and such so it would be handy also for things like family going to/from airport or going to Home Depot. Anyways he would much rather get a diesel so hes been wondering when and if a diesel model is coming to the US so I thought I'd ask here.
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This has been dicussed here -- did you try doing a thread search on both the GL and Diesel forums?
Half of what I have read that was specifically on this question - either concerning the GL models coming to the USA, or on the subject of MBZ diesel-powered cars coming to the USA - says that we will have a diesel ML and GL before the end of this calendar year; the other half of what I have read on this question says that we probably won't have a diesel in the GL before the end of the year, but will have one next Spring.
Now that we have been informed that the diesel-powered ML320 CDI will be arriving on these shores by Fall perhaps there is hope for a diesel-powered GL before year-end -- but it is still all wishful thinking, supposition, and hope at this point in time as far as I know....
Half of what I have read that was specifically on this question - either concerning the GL models coming to the USA, or on the subject of MBZ diesel-powered cars coming to the USA - says that we will have a diesel ML and GL before the end of this calendar year; the other half of what I have read on this question says that we probably won't have a diesel in the GL before the end of the year, but will have one next Spring.
Now that we have been informed that the diesel-powered ML320 CDI will be arriving on these shores by Fall perhaps there is hope for a diesel-powered GL before year-end -- but it is still all wishful thinking, supposition, and hope at this point in time as far as I know....
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True, either late this year or early next year. I think if the GL450 continues to sell well we may be a GL550 sometime next year too, but with gas prices making SUVs sales harder to come by we might not.
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Cool thanks guys, my dad's a patient guy (he waited for like 3-4 years for his E class to come to the US after he first saw spy shots in a magazine, he even bought a VW Passat to hold him over) so even spring next year isn't too far for him to wait, thanks again and next time i'll try to remember to search first.
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Originally Posted by ClayJ
Now that we have been informed that the diesel-powered ML320 CDI will be arriving on these shores by Fall perhaps there is hope for a diesel-powered GL before year-end -- but it is still all wishful thinking, supposition, and hope at this point in time as far as I know....
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The U.S. market will likely never see a V8 diesel until MB re-designs it to meet U.S. pollution requirements. Even then it would be so expensive to the point where MBUSA wouldn't be able to price it in order to make the business case stick.
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Originally Posted by Germancar1
The U.S. market will likely never see a V8 diesel until MB re-designs it to meet U.S. pollution requirements. Even then it would be so expensive to the point where MBUSA wouldn't be able to price it in order to make the business case stick.
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Originally Posted by JoeDiesel
Why would the V8 require a redesign if both it and the V6 are using MB's new so-called BlueTech and common rail diesel engine technology? That doesn't make sense. Can you explain? As for a business case, take a look at my two year old V10 TDI Touareg and the fact that VW is bringing it back to the States again this year!
As for VW importing the V10, VWoA is losing money overall and the T-Rex only makes them a small profit at those numbers, MB isn't going to do a V8 diesel if the numbers aren't there. VW on the other hand will see the V10 for one minute and not the next, another thin MB isn't going to do.
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Originally Posted by Germancar1
The V8 doesn't use Bluetech technology and it is just and updated version of the V8 MB has had for a few years now, it runs a lot dirtier than the new V6. It would require expensive development work and the small sales numbers wouldn't make it feasible.
As for VW importing the V10, VWoA is losing money overall and the T-Rex only makes them a small profit at those numbers, MB isn't going to do a V8 diesel if the numbers aren't there. VW on the other hand will see the V10 for one minute and not the next, another thin MB isn't going to do.
M
As for VW importing the V10, VWoA is losing money overall and the T-Rex only makes them a small profit at those numbers, MB isn't going to do a V8 diesel if the numbers aren't there. VW on the other hand will see the V10 for one minute and not the next, another thin MB isn't going to do.
M
True the V6 & V8 T-regs haven't sold as well in the U.S. as some other lesser vehicles have but globally VW can't keep up with demand for the V10. The V10 engine factory has been at capacity since day one, which is why the U.S. was allocated so few. The only reason VW stopped sales in '05 was because of EPA bureaucracy. VW began making mid-production changes that actually make the Touareg burn cleaner in preparation for ultra-low sulfur fuel introduction in the States. But because the U.S. has dragged its feet (new fuel won't be fully available until end of this year) VW didn't want to manufacture two variants of its V10: a clean one for international standards and a dirty one for the U.S. since exhaust scrubbing technologies like BlueTec and others won't work with our poor fuel. So VW's "on again, off again" experience doesn't even apply to the GL420 CDI now that our fuel finally meets world standards.
I just can't imagine why anyone would want a GL that accelerates 0-60 in over 9 secs when you can have one that does it in the 7 sec range AND get better fuel economy. Why would MB think the American market is that dumb?
Last edited by JoeDiesel; Jul 15, 2006 at 12:00 PM.
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I understand all of that, but the new 4.2L V8 from what I've seen doesn't use Bluetech technology, nor does it meet U.S. emission standards, from the last info I saw on this engine??? Still though I don't see MBUSA selling a V8 diesel, just too costly and the sales wouldn't justify it. You and I know the advantages of this, but you have to remember the U.S. consumer is a mixed bag and a lot of them are stuck in the past when it comes to diesels. The new V6 Bluetec models would really have to take off and the U.S. Benz buyer would have to request a V8 for MBUSA to even consider such a costly option. I agree with you all the way here, a V8 S420, GL420 and even ML420 would be great. Also a E420, but then you'd have so many models being imported to the point when you and I wouldn't be able to keep track of them...lol. As it stands we will get a E320, R320, ML320 and early next year a GL320 and from what I've heard a S320. I think they'll see how these models do first before even thinking about importing a V8 diesel.
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Originally Posted by Germancar1
I understand all of that, but the new 4.2L V8 from what I've seen doesn't use Bluetech technology, nor does it meet U.S. emission standards, from the last info I saw on this engine??? Still though I don't see MBUSA selling a V8 diesel, just too costly and the sales wouldn't justify it. You and I know the advantages of this, but you have to remember the U.S. consumer is a mixed bag and a lot of them are stuck in the past when it comes to diesels. The new V6 Bluetec models would really have to take off and the U.S. Benz buyer would have to request a V8 for MBUSA to even consider such a costly option. I agree with you all the way here, a V8 S420, GL420 and even ML420 would be great. Also a E420, but then you'd have so many models being imported to the point when you and I wouldn't be able to keep track of them...lol. As it stands we will get a E320, R320, ML320 and early next year a GL320 and from what I've heard a S320. I think they'll see how these models do first before even thinking about importing a V8 diesel.
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Well I disagree about the 420's ability to meet emissions. From what I read both are equally capable. MB is simply making a big mistake by not having the 420 certified. As far as keeping track of an increased number of variants, Europeans have enjoyed a far greater number of choices for decades. Maybe Americans really are feeble minded when it comes to automotive technology.
And talk about a self defeating strategy. The 420 even out performs the 450 gasser while the 320 will be a complete slug, especially in a vehicle this size and weight. If they really want Diesels to take off, show Americans that they can have both economy and performance. And I can't imagine why cost would be a factor. The diferences between the two would be marginal and the typical Mercedes buyer is not a penny pinching greenie. It seems MB is saying a smart buyer might as well wait for the 500 (or 550) since it performs better than the 450 and both consume about the same outrageous amount of gas.
The boys at Sindelfingen need to knock some sense into the knuckleheads at MBUSA. Dr. Zetsche doesn't seem as bright as Dr. Piech! His legacy will be catching Zs.
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I think you're missing the point. Of course MB can make or revise the V8 to meet our standards, but how much would that cost vs. how many V8 diesels they would sell here, that is the question. Not for MB buyers, but the company. In its current form it does not meet our standards because it is afterall based on the old 4.0L diesel as opposed to being a totally new engine like the V6 is. At some point you come to the point of diminishing returns, they just can't import every model they think would sell. If they did that with the S-Class they'd eventually have the S450, S550, S320, S420, S63, S600 and S65. That is one too many models, IMO. There are those who missed the CLK55 AMG Coupe and the C-Class wagon, but they didn't buy enough of them to make the case for importing them. I agree that a all these diesels would be wonderful, but as you imply the American consumer isn't nearly as sophisticated as their European counterparts. Lots of Americans think that diesels are still 80's like in nature. Now I do have a theory about BMW,MB and Audi getting together and starting some type of combined diesel push/marketing campaign to get the word out, but that will never happen.
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Well you are correct in that there isn't a place in the market for say a Diesel SL or CL. But bringing over only a V6 Diesel in lieu of the V8 will only further reinforce the American stereotype that diesels are slow. A E320 CDI makes sense because it is better (economy & performance) than a E350 (or E320) gasser and only slightly slower 0-60 (~0.6 sec.) than an E500. But offering only a 320 CDI in the GL doesn't. A vehicle this size needs power, especially when owners begin to take advantage of its cavernous interior and towing capacity. And it's about 2.4 seconds slower 0-60, than the slowest of the GL V8 gassers, the GL450. That's a slug that harkens back to the 80s. I don't understand why you think that the GL420 CDI would be such a poor seller, especially compared to a GL320! A GL420 is only 0.2 sec slower than the 450 and it gets better mileage. How could any market be averse to that?!
Last edited by JoeDiesel; Jul 16, 2006 at 08:09 PM.
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Well I'm not sure about whether or not a GL420 would be a slow seller, what I meant was that I can't see MBUSA certifying the V8 for the U.S. market for just a GL. They'd have to sell it in the ML, S and possibly the E-Class to make it worthwhile from a business case point of view. Plus they've already invested untold millions in this new V6 so I can't see a V8 coming over also.
Don't get me wrong I agree with everything you're saying, but you have to look at it from a front-office point of view. I'd like to see S420, GL420 and a ML420, maybe even a E420 and R420, but that would just be too many models.
Then again lets pretend that confirmed 07' diesels (E320, GL320, ML320, R320) take off and become sold-out and hard to get items and then for 2008 they go on sale in key markets like Mass, New York and Cali, and they become all the rage, then you'll get your wish I think. I agree a GL420 would make more sense than a GL320, but the money has been spent on developing the V6 and to test the market for diesel acceptability first. You should write MBUSA about a bringing over a GL420, they might do it if the interest is there. A S420, E420 and ML420 would be equally hot IMO.
In reading these boards I see a lot of models that people want or think Mercedes "should" bring over:
CLK63 Coupe, E320 Blutec 4Matic Sedan and Wagon, and apparently for 2007 there is no E550 Wagon. Heck I think I'll write them too!
M
Don't get me wrong I agree with everything you're saying, but you have to look at it from a front-office point of view. I'd like to see S420, GL420 and a ML420, maybe even a E420 and R420, but that would just be too many models.
Then again lets pretend that confirmed 07' diesels (E320, GL320, ML320, R320) take off and become sold-out and hard to get items and then for 2008 they go on sale in key markets like Mass, New York and Cali, and they become all the rage, then you'll get your wish I think. I agree a GL420 would make more sense than a GL320, but the money has been spent on developing the V6 and to test the market for diesel acceptability first. You should write MBUSA about a bringing over a GL420, they might do it if the interest is there. A S420, E420 and ML420 would be equally hot IMO.
In reading these boards I see a lot of models that people want or think Mercedes "should" bring over:
CLK63 Coupe, E320 Blutec 4Matic Sedan and Wagon, and apparently for 2007 there is no E550 Wagon. Heck I think I'll write them too!
M
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'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
For those who think selling the 420 CDI in U.S. would be a major engineering effort..
It's already done. All current engines planned to be offered in the GL already meet the same standards. Only thing that remains is MBUSA needs to get its act together. Here's an excerpt from a DiamlerChrysler press release. (It's easy to see what a slug the 320 will be! They will be slow getting off dealers' lots AND on the street!)
"The ultra-modern engine line-up in all GL-Class models provides superlative drive comfort and compelling performance coupled with superior fuel consumption figures compared with other vehicles in the class. Alongside the 165-kW/224-hp V6 engine in the GL 320 CDI, the range of diesel models includes the new-generation high-performance V8 diesel in the GL 420 CDI, which now has an out-put of 225 kW/ 306 hp and maximum torque of 700 Nm. Both diesel-powered versions undercut the EU 4 limits and feature a maintenance-free diesel particulate filter. In addition to the newly developed 5.5-litre, 285-kW/388-hp engine in the GL 500, launched earlier in the new S-Class, the second unit in this ultra-modern V8 family of engines is celebrating its world premiere in the GL-Class. In the GL 450 the 4.6-litre engine develops 250 kW/340 hp. Both engines also fulfill the stringent EU 4 limits (USA: LEV II standard)."
"The ultra-modern engine line-up in all GL-Class models provides superlative drive comfort and compelling performance coupled with superior fuel consumption figures compared with other vehicles in the class. Alongside the 165-kW/224-hp V6 engine in the GL 320 CDI, the range of diesel models includes the new-generation high-performance V8 diesel in the GL 420 CDI, which now has an out-put of 225 kW/ 306 hp and maximum torque of 700 Nm. Both diesel-powered versions undercut the EU 4 limits and feature a maintenance-free diesel particulate filter. In addition to the newly developed 5.5-litre, 285-kW/388-hp engine in the GL 500, launched earlier in the new S-Class, the second unit in this ultra-modern V8 family of engines is celebrating its world premiere in the GL-Class. In the GL 450 the 4.6-litre engine develops 250 kW/340 hp. Both engines also fulfill the stringent EU 4 limits (USA: LEV II standard)."
Last edited by JoeDiesel; Jul 19, 2006 at 04:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by JoeDiesel
It's already done. All current engines planned to be offered in the GL already meet the same standards. Only thing that remains is MBUSA needs to get its act together. Here's an excerpt from a DiamlerChrysler press release. (It's easy to see what a slug the 320 will be! They will be slow getting off dealers' lots AND on the street!)
"The ultra-modern engine line-up in all GL-Class models provides superlative drive comfort and compelling performance coupled with superior fuel consumption figures compared with other vehicles in the class. Alongside the 165-kW/224-hp V6 engine in the GL 320 CDI, the range of diesel models includes the new-generation high-performance V8 diesel in the GL 420 CDI, which now has an out-put of 225 kW/ 306 hp and maximum torque of 700 Nm. Both diesel-powered versions undercut the EU 4 limits and feature a maintenance-free diesel particulate filter. In addition to the newly developed 5.5-litre, 285-kW/388-hp engine in the GL 500, launched earlier in the new S-Class, the second unit in this ultra-modern V8 family of engines is celebrating its world premiere in the GL-Class. In the GL 450 the 4.6-litre engine develops 250 kW/340 hp. Both engines also fulfill the stringent EU 4 limits (USA: LEV II standard)."
"The ultra-modern engine line-up in all GL-Class models provides superlative drive comfort and compelling performance coupled with superior fuel consumption figures compared with other vehicles in the class. Alongside the 165-kW/224-hp V6 engine in the GL 320 CDI, the range of diesel models includes the new-generation high-performance V8 diesel in the GL 420 CDI, which now has an out-put of 225 kW/ 306 hp and maximum torque of 700 Nm. Both diesel-powered versions undercut the EU 4 limits and feature a maintenance-free diesel particulate filter. In addition to the newly developed 5.5-litre, 285-kW/388-hp engine in the GL 500, launched earlier in the new S-Class, the second unit in this ultra-modern V8 family of engines is celebrating its world premiere in the GL-Class. In the GL 450 the 4.6-litre engine develops 250 kW/340 hp. Both engines also fulfill the stringent EU 4 limits (USA: LEV II standard)."
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Right in the nick of time, a writeup on the GL320 CDI:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=116192#8
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=116192#8
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From: San Diego
'01 911 Turbo, '04 V10 TDI Touareg, '95 E420
Originally Posted by Germancar1
The V8 doesn't meet our standards though. It doesn't say that it does anywhere, all of that is Euro information.
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From: Dallas TX
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Originally Posted by JoeDiesel
Ah but EU4 and LEV II are very similar, in some cases EU4 is more strict. Point is if it can meet one it can meet the other with very little if any change. Just a matter of getting it certified. Even the initial offering of the 320 won't be 50 state legal, showing once again MBUSA doesn't have its act together. First it introduces the wrong Diesel engine and then doesn't make it available in key U.S. markets.
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From: NC
2019 Volvo XC90 Magic/Amber, '95 E320 Cabriolet Midnight,'14 GL350 Lunar/Almond was '07 GL320CDI
This forum is slanted...to speed fanatics
I cannot wait for the arrival of the 320, and would not choose the 420 over it even if both were available. I am not looking to set land speed records off the line, but rather to transport my family safely while having a fun time driving a great luxury cruiser...My Tahoe got a combined 17, so 24 will be the ticket! I just wish it were sooner rather than later...
And rest assured, I would bet good money that we'll indeed see big diesels VERY soon for the rest of you
And rest assured, I would bet good money that we'll indeed see big diesels VERY soon for the rest of you
