rleggs

both the mb gl320 cdi/ r class diesel rated as "MEANEST CARS" ? ...giving 20/25mpg?...as compared to a heap of other cars giving much less..[lexus lx, hummer, mdx, escalade, x5, q7..etc]

link: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/06/gre...est/index.html

thoughts?

Ausmbtech

Hmmmmmm..............compairing tiny hybrid powered cars to large diesel powered cars is a bit unrealistic.

The MB diesels are some of the cleanest diesel powered vehicles out there. the CO2 emmisions are also some of the lowest for the engine size and power.

Large cars use more fuel to shift their weight, nothing new there

Large cars that have efficient engines and move their weight better than others shouldn't be poorly compaired to small caars that struggle to move their own weight. They should only compair to vehilces in a similar catagory.

jpeardm

I'll take mean.
What these comparisons always fail to bring out is the so called "dust to dust" analysis where just about all the hybrid vehicles actually use many more energy "units" during their life span. From very expensive R&D, development and design, expensive materials and components, short life span, higher initial "real" (before manufacturer subsidies) cost, inefficient economies of scale, to low resale values etc, all factored in a GL320 is a whole lot better for the planet right now. These "green" vehicles are just a short term answer to the "now in thing" to satisfy the EPA's tunnel vision. High efficiency and clean diesels are what's coming along with more sophisticated DOD gas engines.
Sorry, this subject always gets me going.

StapleGun

My understanding is the new testing cycle for MPG for 2008 vehicles will be a little more realistic and will show a decrease 'across the board' for ALL vehicles.

Nevada Jack

Those reduced figures are already on the EPA site for '08 models.

emayer

Excellent post. Note that the hybrid fad is gradually ending- no Honda Accord hybrid as of 2008 and I feel others will follow suit. By the way, you don't here these guys discussing the energy expenditure, cost and environmental impact of properly disposing the batteries at the end of the vehicle's cycle. I agree that Diesel for now is the better choice. Intrestingly, synthetic diesel produced from natural gas already exists and virtually eliminates previous concerns regarding NOx and sulfur emissions. Presently used in Indonesia.

boxboss

Taking the rankings at face value, why should the GL320 be listed and not the 450? I wish my 450 got the 320's mpg. I guess I'm missing something...

jhcicco

I saw this article a couple of weeks ago and thought it was total BS. I couldn't understand why the GL 450 wasn't included in the list because they talk about total manufacturing process, mileage, emissions, etc. on the environment being the criteria for making the list. Since only the engine/emission is different but the milage is much better, I figured that the GL 450 would be on the list too.

So my conclusion was that this tree-hugging group doesn't like diesel engines and selected their criteria to skewed the results against diesels.

scottybdiving

I agree. There definitely seems to be a bias against diesels. So what are the comparisons in emissions between the 450 and the 320? I thought with the ULSD and the particulate burners, they were lower.

AsianML

Almost always these types of articles/lists are going to be biased. There was a recent 50 Worst Cars of All Time list and it looked like it was extremely biased and was written by a tree hugger. Which is another interesting point, why does it always seem like it's the three huggers that write these automotive related lists?

StevethePilot

Dude, look at the source. You're going to get the anti-capitalism, anti-wealth, anti-common-sense point from those guys just about every time. If it's a hot new fad their supporters can use to make people feel like thier ideas are better than those solutions that have been around for decades, they'll push it in your face. C'mon! Putting four - no five! - diesels in with the Countach? True idiocy. With the huge emissions reduction from diesels combined with the simplicity and efficiency of operation, as well as the wide availability of its primary fuel and a flex-fuel ability to rival anything that Ford or GM have put out, articles like this are simply an agenda looking for a place to rant. Leave it, it's trash.

85mm

i have a gl450 but drive a civic hybrid more. so i guess i net out to be a nice guy

WordSmith

You're being too logical for the tree-huggers. This is a feel-good issue.

85mm

Honda chopped the accord hybrid because people were expecting civic hybrid like mileage where it was actually designed for better performance with pretty good gas mileage. I considered one but the combination of the high price (for an accord) and lack any good lease or finance rates I would have leased a BMW 3 series instead. The current accord was looking dated too, especially on the inside.

emayer

Actually I was referring to the pending release of the completely revised Accord. I am certain that along with the EPA revisions regarding gas mileage computations that the concept of hybrids enhancing performance while saving fuel will be negated especially when the additional cost is factored.

No doubt as car enthusiasts and reasonable people we can see through the agendas at work here but it always suprises me how many people believe this BS. As an aside, if memory serves I think MB did a cross country comparo (real world driving) with the ML diesel vs the lexus hybrid. Guess which vehicle fared better?

MBspdfrk

Think about it. Since when is CNN qualified to test/evaluate cars?

Those morons are too busy editorializing the facts to fit their political views.

85mm

I think Toyota just designed their hybrid system better than Honda. Toyota hybrids can run solely on the electric motor making their city mileage much better. Their design also made it easier to use in the Prius, Camry, Hylander, and three Lexus models (where I believe they were tuned for performance). The idea of recapturing wasted energy just makes sense to me. Toyota is trying to lower the hybrid premium from $5k to $2k. Even Porsche is coming out with a hybrid engine. Key is to be able to get the premium of the hybrid components down. Another thing not commonly mentioned regarding recouping the extra cost of the hybrid engine is that they tend to hold their value better if you don't run it to the ground. When I was looking for used Prius's or Civic hybrids, I found I getting a new one didn't cost much more. And regarding the MB sponsored comparison, I would guess the MB vehicle won.

emayer

I don't think any of us are against capturing wasted energy if the technology is sensible. As it would be unpopular presently, no one has really dained to compute manufacturing costs (energy), upkeep (energy), disposal (energy), and environmental impact of these components. I think you'll be suprised (disappointed?) at the revised EPA stats when implemented. Like most of the member impressions here, the benefits of hybrids are overblown at the expense of other technologies which are equally effective if not superior. This benefits no one except the manufacturers and those with a particular environmental agenda. We all know these vehicles are heavily subsidized by the manufacturers and saw this pattern of behavior during the 70s and 80s gas shortages. Given the ongoing hype, "enviro Chic" impression, and relatively early life cycle of these vehicles I don't think we can say too much about their resale value. Let's see in 2-3 years time.

way2evil

wow what a bad articile. 20/25 mpg bad for an suv? and who cares what cnn says about cars anyways

WordSmith

20 to 25 mpg for an SUV (or a sedan) should be applauded, but most media looks at the mileage numbers of the micro compacts and that becomes the basis for comparision. No thought is given to the hauling capacity or the passengers-per-mile ratio. There's no in-depth reporting. It's strictly a knee-jerk reaction. Unfortuneately, too many people take what CNN says as gospel, and they know it. Yellow journalism is alive and well in the 21st century.

blittle

The article, or perhaps the research model, or whatever is very poor! I own a Prius and my GL 450 and love both of them for what they are and do.....you can't make one into the other....... end of story!

Prefo

Saw this Press Release today on Autoweek, it's from the 2007 Frankfurt Auto Show:

Mercedes-Benz plans to roll out a wide range of diesel- and hybrid-powertrain models over the next three years to cut fuel consumption and CO2 emissions, and plans to put a B-class wagon powered by a fuel cell into production in 2010.

Mercedes-Benz plans to have Bluetec diesel-hybrid models in its lineup, beginning in 2010, as it seeks to produce and sell the world’s cleanest sedans.

The German automaker laid out its “Road to the Future” today at the IAA in Frankfurt.

Among its plans:


A diesel engine for the United States in 2008 that will meet emissions regulations in all 50 states. The engine will be offered in the R-class wagon, and ML- and GL-class SUVs.


A hybrid version of the ML-class SUV in 2009. The powertrain mates at 4.6-liter V-6 engine with the Two Mode rear-drive hybrid system that DaimlerChrysler has developed in conjunction with BMW and General Motors.


A hybrid version of the S-class sedan will also be introduced in 2009. This S 400 hybrid will mate a V-6 gasoline engine with an integrated starter-generator. The starter-generator provides stop-start function, and can power the car on only electricity for short distances. It also adds an electric boost to the gasoline engine under heavy loads.


Mercedes says the hybrid powertrain is rated at 299 hp, can accelerate the large sedan from 0 to 100 kph (62 mph) in 7.3 seconds, yet burns only 7.9 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers (20.9 miles per gallon).


A fuel cell version of the B-class small wagon will go into limited production in 2010. Mercedes said the car will be powered by a new generation of its fuel cell stack that is smaller, yet puts out more power.


Versions of the E-class and S-class sedans powered by Bluetec diesel hybrid powertrains are due in 2010. The powertrains will include a four-cylinder diesel engine and seven-speed automatic transmission. The E-class hybrid will burn 5.1 liters (1.3 gallons) of fuel per 100 kilometers, or about 47.6 miles per gallon.


A version of the C class with the Bluetec diesel hybrid is due after 2010, Mercedes said.
-end-

oinick

No truer words even written on this forum.

oinick

I'm having a little trouble believing that MB will send a four cylinder car even in hybrid form to the US in its most luxurious car, the S class. I wonder if it is not more likely that they would do a hybrid with the current 3 liter diesel in the GL/ML/R or if they might work in the V8 diesel that's available in Europe now. This would be an introduction to this market of the GL or S 420, with or without hybrid technology.

On the other hand, is the engine bay of the current S or GL big enough to accomodate the V6 or V8 diesel and an electric motor? I seem to remember that MB did a show car with the V8 diesel from the GL 420 mated to a electric motor to make an interesting hybrid. Wasn't that when we got the first glimpse of the styling on the GL 550?

WordSmith

AutoWeek is usually right on with their reporting. This is good to hear.