Reports is a leftist tree hugging rag.......... who gives a $hiL?
Don't kill the messenger
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
2004 RX330, 2008 Scion xB, 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid, 2010 Toyot Prius v ATP
Don't kill the messenger
Okay, I'd really prefer comments other than "why bother with that rag" or "they're biased, no matter what they say." How about some real discussion on the subject, here? This is Consumer Reports, 2008 Automobile Issue;
"Mercedes-Benz GL-Class
This seven-passenger luxury SUV has a great deal of interior space without huge exterior dimensions. The third-row seat is roomy enough for adults. The 4.6-liter V8 is smooth and delivers strong performance. Expect 15 mpg overall. [?-STP] Handling is relatively responsive, with good steering feel. The GL proved secure and forgiving in our tests. The ride is comfortable, and the interior is very quiet. Fit and finish is excellent, but some controls are overly complicated. The GL can tack most off-road situations, and towing capacity is impressive. A diesel engine is available. Reliability has been well below average [my emphasis-STP]."
Then there's some stats along with the little rating circles. Reliability and Owner Cost are "much worse" and Satisfaction is "better" (not "much better.")
Comments?
STP
"Mercedes-Benz GL-Class
This seven-passenger luxury SUV has a great deal of interior space without huge exterior dimensions. The third-row seat is roomy enough for adults. The 4.6-liter V8 is smooth and delivers strong performance. Expect 15 mpg overall. [?-STP] Handling is relatively responsive, with good steering feel. The GL proved secure and forgiving in our tests. The ride is comfortable, and the interior is very quiet. Fit and finish is excellent, but some controls are overly complicated. The GL can tack most off-road situations, and towing capacity is impressive. A diesel engine is available. Reliability has been well below average [my emphasis-STP]."
Then there's some stats along with the little rating circles. Reliability and Owner Cost are "much worse" and Satisfaction is "better" (not "much better.")
Comments?
STP
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: West Michigan
2007 E63
I'm looking at a scan of it right now. Is this the one where they survey owners or is this just their perception?
What really surprises me is their reliability rating for the S-Class, which shows the opposite of what I've seen for the last two years.
What really surprises me is their reliability rating for the S-Class, which shows the opposite of what I've seen for the last two years.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,244
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
2004 RX330, 2008 Scion xB, 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid, 2010 Toyot Prius v ATP
The fact of the matter is this; the only other new model I got, new model year, was Toyota products and they had none of the problems I've had with the MB. Do I regret buying it? No, but for sixty-plus grand, I expect it not to break in the first year. Don't you? I don't want to talk about the messenger in me or the messenger in Consumer Reports - I want to talk about whether anyone else thinks it should be a more reliable vehicle as well.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
OMG, what did they say about the S-Class? Is it the new W221 they're talking about?
M
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E55
They seem to hate all MB
They seem to flag all the MB models as below average but yet MB keeps selling a crap load of cars. The SL 550 model has been out a long time and they still cant get ratings for it? Its funny they love the ride and comfort of the MB in every model but cannot recommend them.
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From: South of the Mason Dixon, North of the Gulf
2007 GL 320 CDI, 2008 M5
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19 X3, 24 Tacoma Trailhunter, 25 CLE53
From CR's website:
"Models that score a 'black circle' are not necessarily unreliable, but have a higher rate of problems than the average model. Similarly, models that score 'red circle' are not necessarily problem-free, but had relatively few problems compared with other models."
With this clarification, I'm not sure what's the value of their reliability rating.
"Models that score a 'black circle' are not necessarily unreliable, but have a higher rate of problems than the average model. Similarly, models that score 'red circle' are not necessarily problem-free, but had relatively few problems compared with other models."
With this clarification, I'm not sure what's the value of their reliability rating.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
ITS BS! The S-Class has been reliable according to JDP and more importantly the dealer service department. I'm done with even caring about what CR says anymore. Its a wrap for me.
M
M
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
Same old stuff
CR should stick to toasters and washer/dryers!
The S550 is the best car I ever owned and was trouble free for 18 months and over 14,000 miles. The GL has been trouble free for over 9000 miles. (The GL reliability could be the result of the hose problems in the 320 CDI and some other reported bugs.)You cannot properly represent the reliability (or features, performance, etc.) of a product with black and red dots and a short one paragraph narrative which includes three different models.
I think the input from this and other forums are more reliable to potential buyers. A small sample but specific and helpful to all readers. We have some owners who have had problems and sometime many of these problems could have been resolved very easily by the service department. Had they been resolved the first time then the feedback and satisfaction level would have been positive. Customer feedback to organizations like CR depend a great deal on a owners attitude at the time of submission. It they are peeved over some service department visit then it is reflected in their response. Many times they are upset with a features performance based on what they would like to see as opposed to what the feature was actually designed to do. I could go on and on but for me these compilations based on user information are at best a very general review of a product and bear no resemblance to the actual fact or performance. I totally disregard any CR (or JD Powers and the like) reviews and have for as long as I can remember.
YMMV
The S550 is the best car I ever owned and was trouble free for 18 months and over 14,000 miles. The GL has been trouble free for over 9000 miles. (The GL reliability could be the result of the hose problems in the 320 CDI and some other reported bugs.)You cannot properly represent the reliability (or features, performance, etc.) of a product with black and red dots and a short one paragraph narrative which includes three different models.
I think the input from this and other forums are more reliable to potential buyers. A small sample but specific and helpful to all readers. We have some owners who have had problems and sometime many of these problems could have been resolved very easily by the service department. Had they been resolved the first time then the feedback and satisfaction level would have been positive. Customer feedback to organizations like CR depend a great deal on a owners attitude at the time of submission. It they are peeved over some service department visit then it is reflected in their response. Many times they are upset with a features performance based on what they would like to see as opposed to what the feature was actually designed to do. I could go on and on but for me these compilations based on user information are at best a very general review of a product and bear no resemblance to the actual fact or performance. I totally disregard any CR (or JD Powers and the like) reviews and have for as long as I can remember.
YMMV
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
2004 RX330, 2008 Scion xB, 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid, 2010 Toyot Prius v ATP
Seriously, the number of people on this group alone who've had problems makes me think that Mercedes is, at least for a "luxury" car company, really blowing it with production standards! And when you think of the limited numbers they produce for the US, compared to, say, Ford or GM, or especially Toyota, it's kind of shameful. You guys may want to talk about magazines, I want to talk about cars. Our cars.
Up to you.
Last edited by StevethePilot; Mar 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 800
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From: Southern California
2014 GL 450
I agree with Jack...I'd much rather ask an owner or read a forum to see real-life issues vs. "data" collected by an agency.
Before I bought my GL I came to this forum to read up & see what the issues were. I have 20K on my GL now and no real issues so far.
When I went back to Ford from Honda, I would ask people driving Explorers (the vehicle I wanted) what they thought of them, what problems they had, etc. before I bought one. I bought a used 1996 Explorer that I put over 100,000 miles on and never had a problem with it.
I think some of it has to do with maintenance and listening to your vehicle. If you hear a strange noise, look into it before you're stranded on the side of the road. Other issues (such as the hose issue in the 320 CDI) could not be prevented, but like life, sometimes sh*t happens.
Before I bought my GL I came to this forum to read up & see what the issues were. I have 20K on my GL now and no real issues so far.
When I went back to Ford from Honda, I would ask people driving Explorers (the vehicle I wanted) what they thought of them, what problems they had, etc. before I bought one. I bought a used 1996 Explorer that I put over 100,000 miles on and never had a problem with it.
I think some of it has to do with maintenance and listening to your vehicle. If you hear a strange noise, look into it before you're stranded on the side of the road. Other issues (such as the hose issue in the 320 CDI) could not be prevented, but like life, sometimes sh*t happens.
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 216
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From: Texas
'08 GL 320CDI
I agree with NJ and Newbie. Forums like this are much more reliable for getting the real scoop on a vehicle. Sometimes I think the publications out there are at times influenced by the fact that the elite status vehicles of the world should always be trouble free considering what goes into these vehicles (including R&D) and the steep prices we pay. There may be a disconnect here. It may be the irrate consumer who feels such vehicles should be trouble free for the most part due to the high expense of the vehicle. When problems arise, which at times takes awhile to resolve, customers vent through the survey which can affect the reliability ratings, whether it's justified or not. That said, I admit I had some doubt when after 600 miles, my GL would not start due to a deffective battery. I had an E Class for four years with no trouble and loved it. This will be an ongoing mystery for years, I'm afraid.
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From: .
08 GL450
I own many Porsches, MBZs Audis and BMWs for over 20 years and have been on various internet car boards for 12 years . All these brands have constant annoying issues - I have never had a " trouble free " one . Just ask me about my 996 Turbo which had it's engine pulled out or was towed three times , or the four inch thick folder of repair invoices on my ML 430 or E 320 Wagons of the last 5-7 years .
I have a long-time trusted MBZ service adviser - he has gotten expensive out of warranty stuff covered several times under the below the radar " long term MBZ owner good will " policy .
I think newbies to these brands expect Nordstrom or Lexus- level" customer is always right" coddling for the prices paid, but the reality is, we German marque lovers just put up with it and don't expect it from our experience because we like the way the cars drive , look, and feel.
I have a long-time trusted MBZ service adviser - he has gotten expensive out of warranty stuff covered several times under the below the radar " long term MBZ owner good will " policy .
I think newbies to these brands expect Nordstrom or Lexus- level" customer is always right" coddling for the prices paid, but the reality is, we German marque lovers just put up with it and don't expect it from our experience because we like the way the cars drive , look, and feel.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I had to go out and get this issue so I could examine it more throughly. It seems the S-Class gets bad marks (page 93) for "Power Equipment" and "Sound System". I haven't seen a single problem with anything remotely related to these items on this board. Otherwise the S gets marks nearly as good as any Lexus or Toyota in the book. The "problems" in the S exceed 3 percent which is why it got black circles for "Power Equipment" (whatever the hell that means) and "Sound System". Could it be that people just didn't know how to work these items?
The 07 ML seems to have greatly improved from 2006 also, getting only 2 black circles (which is actually better than their ranking for the S-Class) for "body intergrity" and "body hardware", again what the hell is "body hardware"? Body intergrity is self explanatory, but I don't remember my loaner ML having the shakes or being anywhere near flimsy (though I pretty much drove it like I stole it) body wise.
Sure be nice if they published their exact criteria for each catergory. Or when someone here gets a survey scan and post it here.
M
The 07 ML seems to have greatly improved from 2006 also, getting only 2 black circles (which is actually better than their ranking for the S-Class) for "body intergrity" and "body hardware", again what the hell is "body hardware"? Body intergrity is self explanatory, but I don't remember my loaner ML having the shakes or being anywhere near flimsy (though I pretty much drove it like I stole it) body wise.
Sure be nice if they published their exact criteria for each catergory. Or when someone here gets a survey scan and post it here.
M
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 603
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From: Spicewood, TX
2008 GL 320, 2007 Silverado LTZ C3500 Duramax Turbo Diesel
I own many Porsches, MBZs Audis and BMWs for over 20 years and have been on various internet car boards for 12 years . All these brands have constant annoying issues - I have never had a " trouble free " one . Just ask me about my 996 Turbo which had it's engine pulled out or was towed three times , or the four inch thick folder of repair invoices on my ML 430 or E 320 Wagons of the last 5-7 years .
I have a long-time trusted MBZ service adviser - he has gotten expensive out of warranty stuff covered several times under the below the radar " long term MBZ owner good will " policy .
I think newbies to these brands expect Nordstrom or Lexus- level" customer is always right" coddling for the prices paid, but the reality is, we German marque lovers just put up with it and don't expect it from our experience because we like the way the cars drive , look, and feel.
I have a long-time trusted MBZ service adviser - he has gotten expensive out of warranty stuff covered several times under the below the radar " long term MBZ owner good will " policy .
I think newbies to these brands expect Nordstrom or Lexus- level" customer is always right" coddling for the prices paid, but the reality is, we German marque lovers just put up with it and don't expect it from our experience because we like the way the cars drive , look, and feel.
I have tried to prepare Kristen for these issues, if and when they arrise. She now has 9K miles and it will go in for service for the first time in the next month.
There was no brand loyalty on my part. I blindly thought that MB had a long history of reliability and good resale, because it is MB. My 2002 Ford Excursion had 90K and my 2000 F350 had 220K. Neither of them saw a day in the shop (zero, zip, nada) for other than maintenence issues and 1 minor recall. This is the kind of reliability I expected for 50% more money and so far I have not been disappointed. It is an experiment for me. If I get the reliability and the car holds it's value like I had hoped, I will be back. If not, I will move on to another manufacturer with a diesel SUV. It looks like there will be more options by the time we are ready.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
2004 RX330, 2008 Scion xB, 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid, 2010 Toyot Prius v ATP
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 291
From: Dallas TX
2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
One thing I've noticed that is particular stupid about CR is that they'll recommend anything long as it is reliable. The Saab 9-3 and BMW 7-Series in particular they find to be lacking in a lot of areas, but they're still "recommended". Why would you recommend a luxury car that "overall missed the mark as a luxury sedan"? Just because it is reliable? Proves that these is no "car" magazine.
M
M
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,244
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
2004 RX330, 2008 Scion xB, 2001 Honda Insight Hybrid, 2010 Toyot Prius v ATP
I think newbies to these brands expect Nordstrom or Lexus- level" customer is always right" coddling for the prices paid, but the reality is, we German marque lovers just put up with it and don't expect it from our experience because we like the way the cars drive , look, and feel.
Why do you hold your standards so cheap? Are you actually saying, out loud, that you have no right to demand better from what was once the pinnacle of automobile manufacturing, the pride of Germany? We should buy them, suck it up and not ask for more?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,517
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
I couldn't agree more - we should be expecting this to be a cult, not a car. How could we possibly expect that "the customer is always right" when we're spending tens, or in some cases hundreds, of thousands of dollars for a car? By the way, this is not my first Mercedes. I've owned Toyota and Lexus products, Fords, Nissans, Hondas, GM and Chrysler products. Each have had problems, but overall some have had fewer problems than others. And boy, this thing looks really terrific by the roadside, loaded up with a family on a long weekend drive in the middle of nowhere, dead on the road. Feels really comfortable to have no power because the turbo hose is off. Drives like a dream on the back of a tow truck.
Why do you hold your standards so cheap? Are you actually saying, out loud, that you have no right to demand better from what was once the pinnacle of automobile manufacturing, the pride of Germany? We should buy them, suck it up and not ask for more?
Why do you hold your standards so cheap? Are you actually saying, out loud, that you have no right to demand better from what was once the pinnacle of automobile manufacturing, the pride of Germany? We should buy them, suck it up and not ask for more?
The MB is in the simplest term "just another mass produced automobile." It is built just like a Ford or Toyota and as with ALL cars they are not perfect when built. Sometimes the engineers screw up, sometimes the guy who tightens a nut screws up (not pun intended) and sometime I imagine the Robots screw up. So someone or perhaps many someone's will get a MB with a problem. All mass-produced cars will never be perfect as well as most other types of mechanical machines.
We as MB buyers know this but we believe the MB will ride better, perform better, maintain it's quality throughout it's ownership better and provide us a feeling of safety and convenience (and status to some) for the life of the car. There may be bumps in the road (again no pun intended) but that is what warranties and service is for. As the saying goes..."I love my Mercedes Benz...."
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 377
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From: .
08 GL450
It's the reality of dealing with the " German mind set " , from manufacturer on down. Cars give me pleasure, not happiness , so I'm OK with that .
Satisfied MBZ owner since 1985, Porsche owner since 1986. Audi owner since 1986 , BMW owner since 1991 , with the scars to prove it , LOL.
Last edited by MKW; Mar 2, 2008 at 12:30 PM.
