cablvr

For those of you with newer diesels outside of North America, does M-B require ULSD or LSD? Is ULSD available elsewhere?

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find (in New Jersey & Pennsylvania) filling stations with pumps marked ULSD. It seems to me if diesels sold (from 2007+) in the North America market (maybe just the US?) require ULSD, why is LSD still produced? It is terribly frustrating that filling stations do not know what is being pumped - or maybe it is just the character of the gas jockeys in NJ. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.

StevethePilot

It's a confusing and potentially expensive situation, but technically everyone is supposed to be carrying only ULSD. I know I've been places where they claim they just haven't switched the stickers yet, but that's really not good enough for me. If something happens to my injectors, I want to be able to go to the station and say, "see, they told me it was ULSD."

I don't know if they call it the same thing in Yerrup, but basically it's anything that 15ppm or lower that is "Ultra." I can ask a couple of friends if they know.

STP

scottybdiving

It would be unlikely that they are selling S500 and more likely that they are too lazy to change the stickers. S500 is still being produced but most of it is getting dyed because it is for off-roads, farm, and marine use. Fines for illegal distribution would far exceed any benefit for doing so. Since it is a Federal law, I assume it would be a Federal offense but I'm sure the state comptroller would want his piece of the pie as well.

You probably wouldn't notice any difference other than it could harm your exhaust system, like leaded gas did to the catalytic converters.

dmfick

There is no LSD sold at any filling station in the US. Effective December 2006 is was illegal to sell anything but ULSD to retail fuel purchasers anywhere in the country. I also coninue to see LSD stickers, but it is virtually impossible that the pumps put out anything except ULSD.

StevethePilot

Not worth the risk to me either way. My understanding was that the ULSD was in part because of emissions but that using S500 can cause injector clogging as well with the new teeny-tiny injectors?

STP

cablvr

dm,

Illegal at the Federal (felony - jail &/or fine) or state (misdeameanor - slap & tickle) level? Who still makes LSD (no pun)? Should the complaints be addressed to the state's consumer affairs department or attorney general? I am pissed!

ima55r2

Last week in Miami I found a diesel pump labeled LSD, with a label stating not for the newer car dates. I didn’t bother asking the attendant and just looked elsewhere.

Was the LSD diesel supposed to be pumped out or was the ULSD just added to the existing mix and then labeled when it tested out okay?

scottybdiving

I don't know if it is a felony but I assume the EPA has a vested interest and they have became a strong armed agency in recent years.

Daryl

Being one of the first owners of a GL 320 cdi I experienced many frustrating situations regarding labeling at service stations. I contacted the department of agriculture in three different southern states that regulate pump labels as well as the headquarters at BP Oil. In every conversation I was told to demand the service station to show you their most recent "delivery ticket" to assure that, in fact, they were dispensing ULSF.

Danno4x4

Not true... At this point, 80% of the fuel being produced and sold must be ULSD, but there is no 100% requirement until 2010 (except in CA which is already 100%)

Here are some facts:

• Effective June 1, 2006, refiners and importers nationwide are now required to ensure that at least 80 percent of the volume of the highway diesel fuel they produce or import is ULSD-compliant.
  
• Diesel fuel classified as ULSD is flowing to distribution and marketing points downstream from refineries (i.e., pipelines, distributors, terminals and transporters) and is now available at many retail locations.
  
• Diesel fuel classified as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel may still be sold at retail locations outside of California until December 1, 2010.
  
• The State of Alaska received an extension of the highway fuel 15 ppm requirement until 2010.

Here is a web site with more info (this was linked directly from the EPA's website about ULSD)

http://www.clean-diesel.org/highway.html

Bottom line:

In Rural areas and at non-well known brand gas stations, you had best check for a sticker. But, I am pretty sure that all of the major gas brands are now using ULSD.

If you are driving in Alaska, or planning a trip there... You really need to be careful since they were given a pass until 2010, there is no 80% requirement there... That doesn't mean that there is no ULSD to be found, but rather that as a consumer you had better look for the sticker, since no station is required to sell ULSD.

StevethePilot

ROAD TRIP!

Danno, you are a wealth of information, my friend. And unlike myself, it's almost entirely useful information!

Steve

aceman

but what happens if you put LSD in your ULSD CDI???

I'm assuming the nozzle's are the same but could someone educate me?

thx

Aceman

Danno4x4

Thanks Steve-O! Although I have also been known for Cliffie type trivial info as well!

Danno4x4

The higher sulpher content of LSD will ruin the particulate filter which is used to trap the soot in the exhaust that diesels were previously known for. The filter regenerates itself periodically by increasing the combustion temperature to burn off the trapped particulate. (Resulting in an interesting smell and a slight increase in white smoke from the exhaust). The sulpher coats the particulate which prevents the regeneration process, so eventually it gets completely clogged.

Its not conclusive yet (at least that I know) whether a single tank will cause the clog or whether its cumulative over several tanks. I suspect that its cumulative, so if need be, you might be able to survive a tank or two of the LSD without really causing permanent damage. But I am not sure I would chance it unless it was an emergency..

dmfick

Danno., that is SIMPLY WRONG. I am in the business indirectly, and have confirmed this with several oild company CEO's. There is no LSD sold in teh US today, anywhere, for road use. From the EPA's own web site:

"On June 1st, 2006, U.S. refiners were required to produce 80% of their annual output as ULSD (15 ppm), and petroleum marketers and retailers were required to label[7] diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and kerosone pumps with EPA-authorized language disclosing fuel type and sulfur content. Other requirements effective June 1st, 2006, including EPA-authorized language on Product Transfer Documents and sulfur-content testing standards, are designed to prevent misfueling, contamination by higher-sulfur fuels and liability issues. The EPA deadline for industry compliance to a 15 ppm sulfur content was originally set for July 15, 2006 for distribution terminals, and by September 1, 2006 for retail. But on November 8, 2005, the deadline was extended by 45 days to September 1, 2006 for terminals and October 15, 2006 for retail. In California, the extension was not granted and followed the original schedule. As of December, 2006, the ULSD standard has been in effect according to the amended schedule, and compliance at retail locations was reported to be in place."

dmfick

You are confusing produced vs sold. They can produce up to 20% LSD, but it cannot be sold for retail road use any more. I personally still use LSD at my farm for tractors and off-road trucks, as well as my sailboat. Every time I request it, the fuel supplier whines that he has to flush his truck to bring me a 650 gallon load of the old-style stuff. He also confirmed that many of the stations he supplies still have the old LSD stickers, but says he would go to jail if he ever loaded any LSD into a retail supply tank.

mbslk350

The web link that Danno provided contains the following statement:
There isn't any ambiguity in this statement. You need to look at the sticker because LSD is still legally available at service stations.

dgiturbo

"For those of you with newer diesels outside of North America, does M-B require ULSD or LSD? Is ULSD available elsewhere?"

I have a few friends that live outside the US. They run the "regular sulphured" diesel and have PROBLEMS!!! From particulate filter clogged to engine repairs. There is an option I am told outside of US to order the vehicle without the Particulate Filter. Never checked as that is not offered here in the US. I have never had a problem finding ULSD BTW. Just wish I could pay less than 4 bucks.