bumper

Was told by my dealer (north Atlanta) today that the upcoming BlueTec GL's and ML's will NOT have spare tires due to AdBlue tanks being installed in their stead. Was told Run Flats were the flavour of the week.

GL Fahrer

That's right, the standard tire/wheel for the MY2009 GL320 BlueTEC is:

Goodyear Eagle 275/50 R20 109H M+S MOExtended
on 8.5j x 20" 5-spoke alloy rims.

gordongl450

GL Fahrer,

You did see my question on the other thread regarding your statement "watching different 3 DVD's simultaneoulsy."

I assume that is only while the truck is stopped, because in the USA you should not be able to play a DVD on the COMAND screen while driving, correct?

Gordon

GL Fahrer

I saw that NJ answered your question. sorry.
Correct. In order for the video portion of the DVD to play on the COMAND screen, the car must be traveling less than 3mph (U.S. law)
It will continue playing once you start moving but the video will black-out.
The people in the back can still watch the DVD (up front) if they choose it as their source

gordongl450

Thanks GL. I got it.

Gordon

scottybdiving

I don't know much about the drive-flats but I have never been real impressed with the mini-spares either. Kristen is not going to fix a flat anyway, just wait for help to arrive with the Sig in her lap.

oknish

lkchris

Have them install ...

TV550

So the 20 inch 5 spoke rims are standard now on the 320 GL bluetec?

I hate runflats due to how harsh they ride but maybe Goodyear is better than the BMW OEM runflats from Bridgestone.

GL Fahrer

This option is not allowed M-B cars in the USA. There is no way for egress from the inside via the liftgate when the spare tire carrier is closed and latched.

The G-Class has one, you can open the rear door with it attached.

GL Fahrer

Correct, 20" rims are now standard on the MY 2009 GL320 BlueTEC.

Danno4x4

Any word on what the cost per gallon or liter is of the AdBlue liquid? I have heard that the tank on the GL holds 32 liters (I think it was liters) which is good to last one full maintenance cycle... But not what the cost will be to refill it.

Also, is there any kind of incentive for owners to actually refill it? Is there some kind of countdown cycle where after the tank empties they only get a certain number of starts... or something of the like?

Quicks

Yes, MBUSA says the GL's AdBlue tank is 8.5 US Gallons or 32.18 Litres [the M and R BlueTecs only have a 7 US gallon tank]. The AdBlue is an 'aqueous urea solution', but nothing on the cost of the liquid or what the service cost would be ex its scheduled to happen every 10,000 miles.

The tank is located in the rear of the truck under the floor and its level can be easily checked lifting up the floor and checking by eye.

LEOSOPHIE

In Europe it is about half the price of diesel per gallon according to a Google search.

Quicks

Apparently AdBlue is made by BASF. Here's a link to some info on it:
http://www.inorganics.basf.com/p02/C..._und_Antworten
The questions. The answers.
What is AdBlue?
What is AdBlue required for?
How long can AdBlue be stored?
What is the refilling interval for AdBlue?
Where can AdBlue be obtained at present and where will it be available in the future?
What handling arrangements are required for AdBlue?
What does AdBlue cost?
How can I store AdBlue at my facilities?

What is AdBlue?

AdBlue is a high-purity, harmless, colorless, synthetically produced 32.5% solution of urea.

AdBlue is not a hazardous substance and has been placed in the lowest water hazard class 1. The high purity and uniform quality are guaranteed by DIN 70070.

What is AdBlue required for?

In the SCR system, AdBlue reduces toxic nitrogen oxides in the exhaust gases of diesel-engined commercial vehicles to water and elementary nitrogen (a natural constituent of the atmosphere).

How long can AdBlue be stored?

AdBlue decomposes over time in storage to form ammonium hydroxide and carbon monoxide; it then no longer fulfills the requirements of DIN 70070. Provided the maximum recommended storage temperature of 25 °C is maintained, AdBlue continues to meet the requirements of DIN 70070 for at least 12 months after production. Should this recommended storage temperature be exceeded, this period is reduced.

What is the refilling interval for AdBlue?

The AdBlue consumption corresponds to approximately 3-6% of that of the diesel fuel [with the GL's 8.5 US gallon AdBlue tank; that would equate to a range from 283 to 141 gallons of diesel]. The size of the tank selected for the vehicle determines the AdBlue refilling interval. As a general rule, AdBlue will need to be refilled at each or every other refueling.

Where can AdBlue be obtained at present and where will it be available in the future?

AdBlue is currently available from BASF sales partners.

What handling arrangements are required for AdBlue?

Trendsetting handling.

What does AdBlue cost?

The price for AdBlue varies according to packaging, container, delivery location and quantity purchased. Current prices are available from our distributors.

How can I store AdBlue at my facilities?

To prevent contaminants from impairing the quality and at the same time to avoid high testing costs, AdBlue should be handled only in storage and filling systems intended exclusively for AdBlue. BASF distributors will be pleased to provide more information.

Since AdBlue solidifies at -11°C [12 degrees F]
and decomposes at an accelerated rate at temperatures above 25°C [77 degrees F], storage and filling systems must be designed to assure of a temperature range of between 30 [86 degees F] and -11°C [12 degrees F].

Nevada Jack

I think the "refilling interval"in your bold type may be off somewhat. Published information by MB indicates it will normally be refilled at service intervals...which would indicate every 10,000 miles or so.

Temperatures have to be maintained for EPA approval so I would imagine the GL320 BlueTEC will be able to meet those requirements.

Quicks

That info is off the BASF site, the maker of AdBlue. It does seem to me that if the BASF stated ratio of AdBlue to diesel of 3% to 6%, that getting 10,000 miles between AdBlue fill ups doesn't work out mathematically; i.e at 25 MPG for 10,000 miles would equal 400 gallons of diesel which would be a 2% ratio to work with the GL's 8.5 gallon Adblue tank.

Of course, if the EPA thought that MB owners had IQs over 50, the 8.5 gallon tank could have been much smaller with an attentive owner filling it up every tank or two of diesel and the spare tire wouldn't have had to be eliminated.

Further, the temperature tolerances stated on the BASF site would also seem to be a problem in the USA. In the winter up north the liquid would freeze and in the south, the tempertures would exceed 86 F often, degrading the liquid.

Nevada Jack

The AdBlue tank I am sure is insulated or in someway made to operate within the parameters the BASF site shows. Believe me, the EPA specs to get this system approved were laid out point by point in their decision to allow it. It was very emphatic that the system must meet all their requirements including a monitoring system, a warning system when AdBlue is getting low, a distribution system for the AdBlue fluid, etc. These vehicles must be certified by model (per my understanding) and I am sure each manufacturer is stressed to the limit in getting the vehicles on the road,

As far as filling up every tank or two...that would be a plain pain in the A** and would require all gas stations to provide a pumping system for AdBlue. The spare tire is probably coming to it's extinction in a few years anyway. Runflat tires will be standard.

Times change and so does the technology. Someday you will probably be able to buy AdBlue in a bottle at Walmart. Or AdBlue will not be required at all with Hydrogen fueled or battery operated vehicles taking over.

And time marches on....

Quicks

You may be right, but right now I'd rather not have run flat tires, a full spare with a smaller AdBlue tank.

I'm used to running outboards where filling up your oil tank and gas tank each time is normal procedure . Further, if you own a Yamaha outboard, it pays to also add Yamaha 'ring free' to each tank of gas. Again, I'm sure I am the exception and don't mind the extra work.

Also, I did see the AdBlue tank in the NY Auto Show's GL BlueTec and looked like a typical Polypropylene tank similar to a windshield washer tank and uninsulated.

Nevada Jack

GL Fahrer may want to comment on this.

I know Yamaha outboards well...had a 200HP on a 21' Pursuit CC in 1983 - 1988 in Annapolis, MD and Hilton Head, SC. Great engine!

Quicks

Yes, Yamahas are great outboards. Mine is a 1990 250 Hp running on a 1980 228 Mako.

And I also would love to hear from GL Fahrer on the issue of BASF AdBlue mixture to Diesel and its temperature range. Also, as the AdBlue tank is only 7 US gallons in the R and M series, that would mean; assuming the same assumptions above [ave 25 MPG for 10,000 miles; i.e. 400 gallons of diesel]; that for the 7 gallon tank to last for the 10,000 miles service intervals, the ratio would have to be 1.75%. Again less than the stated ratio of 3% to 6% of AdBlue to diesel on the BASF website.

GL Fahrer

BASF does not manufacture the BlueTEC system.

The GL Adblue tank is ~8.5gal. It is indeed heated, as well as the lines feeding Adblue to the exhaust.
Under standard conditions Adblue is consumed at a rate of 0.6gal / 1000 miles. This is sufficient to ensure that no extra trips to the dealership are required, even under more extreme operating conditions, such as towing.
Service intervals are 10,000 miles.

Quicks

Correct, not the system itself, but BASF is the manufacturer of the solution: 'AdBlueŽ by BASF'.

IridiumRoad

Yep, that's right. At exactly 10,000 miles, we took in our 09 GL320 Bluetec and it took 4.5 gallons of AdBlue fluid. That's over 2,000 MPG!

That comes out to even less than predicted by GL Fahrer (0.45 gallons / 1,000 miles vs. prediction of 0.60 gallons / 1,000 miles). I would guess the difference is the result of the engineers offering a "worst case" consumption value.

By the way, about 8,000 miles of the 10,000 miles on the car were towing a trailer at an average of 14 MPG fuel economy. So no worries about running out of AdBlue, even under stressful conditions -- exactly as Mercedes promised.

stickygreen

We got the "low adblue" warning without ever getting to the "remaining starts" countdown at about 14k miles since the dealer forgot to refill the tank at 10k.

Also, for those that didn't see my previous post, I do have a couple of '09 Bluetec 20" wheels remaining for sale if any of you guys need a matching spare. See my post below.