No Start/Intermittent Start Problem
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
No Start/Intermittent Start Problem
I just bought a 2010 GL450, 115K mi with quite a few issues I need to address. The one I'm tackling first is intermittent start/no-start condition. I'll explain further:
What I've done so far:
I leaning towards some intermittent connection in the key cylinder/module and hoping it's not EIS for obvious dealer-fix cost reasons. Let me know what you think it is or it is not.
- Sometimes it starts on first try. Other times it won't start after a dozen tries or until I give up. Won't start = no dash light except LED display and no crank.
- When I open the door I get activity on the small display on the dash board (Mileage, temperature, gear switch position, etc.).
- When I insert the smart key and turn to ON I most often don't get any lights on the dash and the engine won't crank.
- Occasionally, I'll get the lights on the dash - the engine may crank and start normally or may not crank.
- Occasionally, I don't don't get any light on the dash at all, except display, but when I move key to ignition the dash lights momentarily come on and then engine cranks and starts OK.
- When key is in ON position with no dash light, the radio works, but nothing else (no horn or headlight). Hazard light and inside lights are always OK.
- When the dash light finally comes on and I leave the key in that position (without cranking) it will go out after a few seconds to a minute
What I've done so far:
- I've read a lot on this forum and elsewhere about similar no start problems. Some suggested EIS, dead battery, starter, etc as the root cause.
- The 7-yr old battery that came with it couldn't hold charge of more than 12.5V so I replaced it with new battery. When engine is running the system voltage according to my diagnostic tool is 13.8 - 14.0 V.
- I have not checked starter yet but I don't see hesitation when it decides to crank and also don't think a bad starter will prevent dash lights and accessories from functioning (correct me if I'm wrong)
- I noticed that the steering column cover is lose and can slide up/down freely.
- I don't have access to Xentry/DAS, but I have a diagnostic tool that can scan all modules. There are faults on certain modules (AAC, Command/Audio, Rear door module, Rear SAM, Suspension, ESP, Instrument Cluster, ETC, and Motor electronics, EIS/EZS).
- I checked battery in key fobs and both are above 3V. The no-start problem happens with both keys.
- ETC code C426-Start enable 'Drive Authorization System (DIAGNOSTIC TOOL/FBS)' has not been issued. This seems to have been stored 50,000 miles ago. Truck is at 115,000 miles now.
- Instrument Cluster code 9115 - Control module AAC is not sending any data - I think this is related to my AC blowing hot problem and not the no start problem.
- Motor electronics code 0521 (P2004) - Tumble flap Inlet manifold short circuit to ground. Flap stuck in Actuated position - Again, I understand this is due to some broken plastic piece in the intake manifold that I plan to address soon, but I don't see how this could be related to the no start issue.
- EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present. I'm not sure what Terminal 30 is, but when I was browsing live data for other modules Terminal 30 appeared to be present with active data.
I leaning towards some intermittent connection in the key cylinder/module and hoping it's not EIS for obvious dealer-fix cost reasons. Let me know what you think it is or it is not.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 33
Likes: 2
From: AZ
2012 CLS550 Launch Edition, 2011 GL550
Hi,
I have a 2011 GL550. I have the same exact issues when I use the Key. If the P2S button is used, starts normally. I also get the EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present but If i put the key in and just hold it on the crank position It does start after a few seconds.
I have a 2011 GL550. I have the same exact issues when I use the Key. If the P2S button is used, starts normally. I also get the EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present but If i put the key in and just hold it on the crank position It does start after a few seconds.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
Hi,
I have a 2011 GL550. I have the same exact issues when I use the Key. If the P2S button is used, starts normally. I also get the EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present but If i put the key in and just hold it on the crank position It does start after a few seconds.
I have a 2011 GL550. I have the same exact issues when I use the Key. If the P2S button is used, starts normally. I also get the EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present but If i put the key in and just hold it on the crank position It does start after a few seconds.
BTW: Did your problem show up after the truck had sat unused for a while (or battery dead)? I don't know how long mine sat before being sold to me but it must be at least a couple of months according to vehicle history report. I've seen elsewhere where people had similar no-start problem after their auxiliary or main battery died or car had sat unused for a while.
Member
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 230
Likes: 38
From: NYC
2008 S550 4Matic, 2007 GL450, 2008 C300, 2018 GLE63 AMG
90% of the time it’s the key Benz keys do have an electronic life span, either way I need both.... your gl450 is amongst the batch that Mercedes lost key data , that’s why they wanna change eis
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
OK. Problem solved. For anyone interested, you must remove the radio to gain access to the EIS module (it takes all but 5 mins). Once I removed and cracked open the EIS module I confirmed one suspicion I had: i.e. there is an intermittent connection. The microswitch was fine. However, one of the connectors inside the module (the one that goes to the coil) had multiple cold solder joints so a quick touch up with soldering iron fixed this. I'll invest the $1,200 in some upgrades (or a truckload of bear?).
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: ORLANDO, FL
2010 Mercedes GL450
Thanks for getting back with me, my problem started after I put in a new auxiliary battery and it was OK for about 5 days and I let it sit for a couple of days, then I drove it about 10 miles and on my return trip I got a CEL and when I pulled over to check it with my scanner I had a misfire code and another one saying it was centered around my number 5 cylinder, I erase it and got back on the highway it came right back and I thought that it my be a clogged fuel injector, so I floored it and it cut off about a minute later and would not start back up, even after I re-erased the codes. At that point I was stuck with nothing but a click click when I turned it over as if the battery was dead I got a jump start and I used it, same thing when my wife cane I jump it with cables no change, the end result was I got it towed home and try to charge up the battery, and I ended up putting a jumper on starter relay and it still would not charge just a real weak crank no click; everything is pointing to starter with no CODES? But I cannot see how my flooring it took the starter out, with no prior problems with starting? HOPEFULLY THIS MIGHT HELP SOMEONE ELSE OUT; I got the starter ordered;
THANKS AGAIN,
JW
THANKS AGAIN,
JW
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 784
NGL450 w/EORP, S550
A starter going out will typically announce itself with a slow crank leading up to immediate failure.
Flooring it could have put it over the edge by giving it more air at idle than it was capable of handling and compressing.
Flooring it could have put it over the edge by giving it more air at idle than it was capable of handling and compressing.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: ORLANDO, FL
2010 Mercedes GL450
Thanks Max, that makes a little sense seeing how I never floored it on the highway while the check engine light was on, but I have had the GL for about a year and a half with 235,000 miles on it and I know I probably floored it over 50 times, and it is in good shape, so you would think once that starter went out it would show some type of code other than a misfire. Also it might have been the fault I found while trouble shooting under generator with my scanner: It said ELECTRIC FAULT-- NO & MECHANICAL FAULT-- YES; I thought that was tied into the alternator and maybe that is the starter??
THANKS,
JW,
THANKS,
JW,
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
Thanks Max, that makes a little sense seeing how I never floored it on the highway while the check engine light was on, but I have had the GL for about a year and a half with 235,000 miles on it and I know I probably floored it over 50 times, and it is in good shape, so you would think once that starter went out it would show some type of code other than a misfire. Also it might have been the fault I found while trouble shooting under generator with my scanner: It said ELECTRIC FAULT-- NO & MECHANICAL FAULT-- YES; I thought that was tied into the alternator and maybe that is the starter??
THANKS,
JW,
THANKS,
JW,
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: ORLANDO, FL
2010 Mercedes GL450
I hear what you are saying TADIGUY but if there is some type of mechanical failure I should get a CEL or an error code, I had to dig up that generator fault, I had no codes showing, I replaced both batteries trying to avoid having to deal with the starter replacement. My GL will show codes 24/7 right now I have a marker light out, and a exit light out on the door, the marker error will come on with the lights, but I have to dig up the exit light by searching that door control module which is what I had to do for the generator and I replaced the alternator when I bought it because it was showing an error code, I will let you know what I have after the starter comes in;
THANKS,
JW,
THANKS,
JW,
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: ORLANDO, FL
2010 Mercedes GL450
Here is the update on my crank but no start problem? My engine is locked up?? After replacing the starter I ended up with the same symptoms and decided to check the crankshaft,,, LOCK LOCK LOCK, I have no understanding as to how and why, but now I need an engine?
THANKS,
JW;
THANKS,
JW;
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: ORLANDO, FL
2010 Mercedes GL450
This is a follow up to me having a used engine installed, one week after getting the engine installed by an all around INDY shop, I noticed a clunking sound anytime I did a fast acceleration from a stop position, and when I pushed the pedal faster it turned into a rattle took it back to the shop they put it on a lift and the noise was coming from front differential? The engine was installed from underneath the vehicle so they dropped the tranny with the engine and in the process they removed the drive shafts, I also had changed the fluid in the differentials and the transmission two weeks before the engine locked up. The shop cannot explain how my problem was created and trying to write it off as a coincidence? The vehicle runs fine at all speeds, with no codes, and if I do a normal take off no noise. I NEED HELP ON THIS!!
THANKS,
JW;
THANKS,
JW;
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
X165 GL450 2007
BTW: Did your problem show up after the truck had sat unused for a while (or battery dead)? I don't know how long mine sat before being sold to me but it must be at least a couple of months according to vehicle history report. I've seen elsewhere where people had similar no-start problem after their auxiliary or main battery died or car had sat unused for a while.
During cranking, the RPM on the cluster display stay at zero, the engine scan tools shows speed 0 also.
Also, scan tool show there is no fuel pump control module FSCU, as I don't know if there was one in this car.
any hints?
Last edited by patncche; Feb 12, 2023 at 11:24 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
I have the same issue. I have a 2007 GL450, drive everyday withut problem, but after sat unused for about 1 month, cranks but the engine doesn't start. Charged up battery or jump start still the same. Scan but cannot find any error codes at all.
During cranking, the RPM on the cluster display stay at zero, the engine scan tools shows speed 0 also.
Also, scan tool show there is no fuel pump control module FSCU, as I don't know if there was one in this car.
any hints?
During cranking, the RPM on the cluster display stay at zero, the engine scan tools shows speed 0 also.
Also, scan tool show there is no fuel pump control module FSCU, as I don't know if there was one in this car.
any hints?
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
X165 GL450 2007
If it cranks then it's not the same problem as mine. I had no crank or light on the dash at all. Re-read my OP. It doesn't sound the same as joemoe22's problem either. In joemoe22's case it was an impending mechanical failure as I had suspected; Not every mechanical issue triggers a CEL. It's probably best to start a new thread for more independent analysis and commentary.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 1
Likes: 1
Mercede Benz GL350
Works fine with this solder…
I just bought a 2010 GL450, 115K mi with quite a few issues I need to address. The one I'm tackling first is intermittent start/no-start condition. I'll explain further:
What I've done so far:
I leaning towards some intermittent connection in the key cylinder/module and hoping it's not EIS for obvious dealer-fix cost reasons. Let me know what you think it is or it is not.
- Sometimes it starts on first try. Other times it won't start after a dozen tries or until I give up. Won't start = no dash light except LED display and no crank.
- When I open the door I get activity on the small display on the dash board (Mileage, temperature, gear switch position, etc.).
- When I insert the smart key and turn to ON I most often don't get any lights on the dash and the engine won't crank.
- Occasionally, I'll get the lights on the dash - the engine may crank and start normally or may not crank.
- Occasionally, I don't don't get any light on the dash at all, except display, but when I move key to ignition the dash lights momentarily come on and then engine cranks and starts OK.
- When key is in ON position with no dash light, the radio works, but nothing else (no horn or headlight). Hazard light and inside lights are always OK.
- When the dash light finally comes on and I leave the key in that position (without cranking) it will go out after a few seconds to a minute
What I've done so far:
- I've read a lot on this forum and elsewhere about similar no start problems. Some suggested EIS, dead battery, starter, etc as the root cause.
- The 7-yr old battery that came with it couldn't hold charge of more than 12.5V so I replaced it with new battery. When engine is running the system voltage according to my diagnostic tool is 13.8 - 14.0 V.
- I have not checked starter yet but I don't see hesitation when it decides to crank and also don't think a bad starter will prevent dash lights and accessories from functioning (correct me if I'm wrong)
- I noticed that the steering column cover is lose and can slide up/down freely.
- I don't have access to Xentry/DAS, but I have a diagnostic tool that can scan all modules. There are faults on certain modules (AAC, Command/Audio, Rear door module, Rear SAM, Suspension, ESP, Instrument Cluster, ETC, and Motor electronics, EIS/EZS).
- I checked battery in key fobs and both are above 3V. The no-start problem happens with both keys.
- ETC code C426-Start enable 'Drive Authorization System (DIAGNOSTIC TOOL/FBS)' has not been issued. This seems to have been stored 50,000 miles ago. Truck is at 115,000 miles now.
- Instrument Cluster code 9115 - Control module AAC is not sending any data - I think this is related to my AC blowing hot problem and not the no start problem.
- Motor electronics code 0521 (P2004) - Tumble flap Inlet manifold short circuit to ground. Flap stuck in Actuated position - Again, I understand this is due to some broken plastic piece in the intake manifold that I plan to address soon, but I don't see how this could be related to the no start issue.
- EIS/EZS code 900516 - Terminal 30 Not present. I'm not sure what Terminal 30 is, but when I was browsing live data for other modules Terminal 30 appeared to be present with active data.
I leaning towards some intermittent connection in the key cylinder/module and hoping it's not EIS for obvious dealer-fix cost reasons. Let me know what you think it is or it is not.
just open the ELECTRONIC IGNITION SWITCH
SOLDER WHITE socket to the board
and issue is fixed
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
It’s great that you found the problem and saved yourself more hassle and at least $1k.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 173
Likes: 36
2014 GL550; 2010 GL450
I thought @Mansoorat007 was looking for a solution to a similar problem I encountered in 2019 where I updated my post with the fix back then. I misconstrued his quote of my OP as a new problem he’s looking for help with but I now realize he’s only adding some helpful commentary/pix so disregard my earlier response today
