My wife went shopping yesterday and upon returning to the vehicle, it would not start. No crank either.

Prior to this, Traction Control and ABS lights illuminated. Generic reader indicated 3 ABS wheel speed sensors need to be replaced.

Dash indicates voltage is 12.0. Voltage dropped to 11.7 after trying to start. Tried to jump it with a hybrid and voltage increased to 12.9 before trying to start, and again no crank.

Of note, I notices I cannot get into position 1 with the push button, it goes straight to position 2. If using the key, I can get to both position 1 and position 2.

Any thoughts? Battery was replaced in February. I believe the ABS wheel speed sensors and this no crank are related to the battery. Dealer says I need a service appointment for them to check the battery and replace it under warranty and the earliest appointment I was able to get (for my 80k service, before the no crank) isn't until a month from now.

I'm going to go back later with a pick-up to try to jump again and hit the starter a few times. I'll probably remove the battery for testing too.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

I have lost two wheel speed sensors due to battery low voltage events - i can only make an educated guess as to why but perhaps the sudden change in voltage when charging a dying or dead battery causes the sensors to fail.

In Short, same thing happened on my 450 and I replaced the battery then the sensors that had codes, in pairs per axle with OEM parts

hasn’t come back since.

 

thanks MaxBlast. I had already purchased all 4 wheel speed sensors to replace. Front are done, rear are stuck and need to drill out. Sensors I’m not worried about.

I’m at a loss as to why the vehicle won’t start. Tried to jump it with a dual battery Duramax and again had no crank. Battery only rose to 12.9 V again when connected to Duramax.

I pulled codes while there on a AutoLink AL329 and show P2BAD and P0721 as stored codes.

I don’t believe it matters, but I am +3185 miles and - 279 days remaining from next service.

I meant to shake the car to hear if AdBlue was sloshing, but forgot. Never got a message regarding it, so doubt it.

I removed the battery and will officially test it. Any thoughts on what else to look at? Being the jump did nothing, I’m worried it may be something other than the battery.

as mentioned above, truck is almost at 80k miles

 

Battery tests good.

Stopped back this evening to troubleshoot some more. Reinstalled battery, Tried to start in Neutral, no luck. Have AdBlue in the tank. Took my voltage continuity tool, which ended up not functioning, to check some fuses. Went to Advanced Auto and purchased another; but it too did not work. Returned to exchange and the new unit didn't function either. Frustrating! So I visually checked the starter fuse and it looks good. FYI, Advanced Auto checked both that I bought from them and confirmed they were bad.

Would it be appropriate to change the starter at this point?

 

FYI, you can't check continuity with voltage. They're two different things. Continuity is done on the Ohms setting, not the voltage setting. However, you could set your DVM to V and connect the negative lead to a good ground and then probe each pin (on the top of the fuse) with the positive lead to see that you have +V on each side. For circuits that aren't always on, set the DVM to Ohms and touch both pins - you should get zero Ohms.

Do you have good V at the starter? Are you getting power on the trigger wire while trying to start?

Another FYI... a battery that tests at 12V is quite bad. Load testing is the best way. It's probably still something else, but there is a possibility that the battery is so bad that even with a good jump, it's negating the help of the good battery. But, the chance of this is probably pretty slim as "usually" batteries don't just keel over - they slowly die. Before yesterday, was it starting quickly/normally?

 

Oh... just to add... a failing neutral safety switch will cause those symptoms. My experience on things like this is with much simpler/older systems, though - while I can't help with more specific details for these newer things without much more research, maybe it's enough to get you poking in the right direction?

 

Vehicle was starting fine prior to this. My voltage continuity tool is just the basic light probe; connect the cable to ground and touch the probe to the fuse to see if the loop is closed.

I was able to put the car in Neutral and tried to start it in N as well. No go. If the Neutral Safety Switch was bad, I wouldn't be able to get into N, correct?

 

That's weird that all of those test probes were bad. You could use a $10 DVM, if you want. Same idea - just a digital V readout instead of a light.

I'm not sure about your NSS question. Maybe someone with more experience with newer things can verify, but if I had to guess, I don't think the two things are related. Meaning, putting the tranny into neutral could be a totally separate system than the NSS. The NSS, generally speaking, is like an on/off switch that is activated when the tranny is in gear to let the computer know not to send the start impulse. But again, I'm basing this on the older style things - I'm not sure how this is accomplished with all the new electronic stuff.

 

2012 X164 uses direct select, correct?

Putting the vehicle in "neutral" with the direct select lever, with no-start could suggest failed transmission gear selector actuator (ISM) Have you gone down this diagnostic path?

Have you replaced the aux battery, if exists? How old is the main battery? I realize you tested it. How old is it?

Direct select, EIS, ISM and engine compartment fuse boxes are the important modules, plus CAN connectivity.

Check all fuses underhood forward of the luggage area (rear seats and forward). Sounds like your key switch (EIS module) may be suspect.

To me it sounds like bad EIS or ISM, as long as you have brand new main and aux batteries.

 

Both primary and aux batteries replaced late February 2021. Keys works in position 1 and 2, but won't start. Push button now works in position 1 and 2.

I tested the engine and passenger front fuses. I also swapped relays in-case starter relay was bad. Below are the results of my tests with no key in ignition and then with the key in position #2. I had to leave, but plan to check fuses next to battery and in the cargo area late tonight.

Power Off ------ Power Position #2 ----------- Fuse #, Function, Amp
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 10 Blower motor Speed Control 10
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 11 Instrumest Cluster, Dashboard 5
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 12 Air Conditioner Controls 15
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 13 Steering column, Upper control panel 5
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 14 Ignition EIS Control Unit 7.5
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 15 Media 5
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 16 Not used
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 17 Not used
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 18 Not used

Neg---------------------- Neg---------------------- 100 Wiper 30
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 101 Purge Control, Oxygen Sensor Upstream 15
EMPTY---------------------------------------------- 102 Transmission Oil Pump 10
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 103 Engine Control Unit 25 (My box has only a 20 fuse in it)
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 104 – 15 (What is this fuse for?)
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 105 Connector, ME Control Unit 15
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 106 Not used
No Signal--------------- No Signal------------- 107 Air Pump 40
Neg---------------------- Neg---------------------- 108 Air Compress for Air Suspension 40
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 109 Electronic Stability Control ESP 25
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 110 Antitheft Alarm System, Siren 10
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 111 Direct Select 30
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 112 Headlights 7.5
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 113 Horn 15
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- ​​​​​​​114 Front SAM N10 5
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 115 ESP 5
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 116 VGS 7.5
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- 117 Distronic DTR 7.5
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- ​​​​​​​118 Engine 5
EMPTY----------------------------------------------119 Control Unit 5
No Signal-------------- Pos---------------------- ​​​​​​​120 Engine 10
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 121 Heater 20
Neg---------------------- Neg---------------------- 122 Engine Starter 25
Neg---------------------- Pos---------------------- ​​​​​​​123 Fuel Filter 20
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- 124 Power Steering 7.5
EMPTY--------------------------------------------- ​​​​​​​125 Not used

​​​​​​​Anything out of the ordinary stand out?

FYI, dealers want $1,200 to replace the starter without any diagnostics. I inquired being the truck has to go in very soon for it's PPM service.

Also, I mentioned it in a prior post, but being I am ~270 days past service due shouldn't put it into a no start mode, correct?

 

Correct on the 270 days. You can enter ASYST and clear that message. Google/youtube will find a video for you.

Have you found the paper folded-up fuse allocation diagram? In 166 vehicles its in the fuse box under the second row seat, passenger side.

 

Yes, I know how to reset the maintenance reminder. I did it this evening just to check, but no avail. I checked the rest of the fuses as well. I don't have fuses under the rear passenger seat, unless I need to cut out the carpet.

Next to battery...

Power Off ------ Power Position #2 ----------- Amp
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 5
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 10
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 25
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 30
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 40
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 70
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 70
Pos---------------------- Pos---------------------- 40

Trunk:

Power Off ------ Power Position #2 ----------- Fuse #, Function, Amp
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------20 Radio Antenna Filter 5
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------21 Control Unit N72/2 Rear center console switch module 5
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------22 Parktronics, Stationary Heater 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------23 COMAND, DVD, Radio, Stereo 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------24 Emergency Tensioner Right Front 40
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------25 COMAND, DVD, CD Changer 15
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------26 Door control Unit – Right Front 25
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------27 Passenger seat adjustment 30
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------28 Driver seat adjustment 30
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------29 Emergency Tensioner Left Front 40
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------30 Fuel Pump 40
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------31 Steering Wheel Heater 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------32 AIRMatic, Air Suspension 15
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------33 Keyless Go Remote Entry 25
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------34 Door control unit, Left front 25
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------35 Sound System, Amplifier, Subwoofer 30
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------36 Tele Aid 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------37 Backup Camera 5
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------38 Digital TV Tuner 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------39 Radio Tuner, Digital Broadcast, Tire Pressure Monitor 7.5
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------40 Easy Pack Liftgate, Rear hatch door closing 30
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------41 Overhead control panel 25
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------42 Panoramic glass sunroof 25
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------43 Fuel pump 20
No Signal-------------- Pos----------------------44 Socket 12 bolt front 20
No Signal-------------- Pos----------------------45 Socket 12 volt rear 20
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------46 Cigarete lighter 15
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------47 Door sill molding lights / illumination 10
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------48 AdBlue Relay 5
Neg--------------------- Neg----------------------49 Heated rear window 30
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------50 Liftgate wiper 15
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------51 activated charcoal filter valve 5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------52 Emergency tensioner retractor left and right front 5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------53 fuel pump 5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------54 Front SAM, Headlight range adjustment 5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------55 Instrument cluster, Light switch 7.5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------56 AdBlue 5
Neg---------------------- Neg----------------------57 Fuel Pump 20
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------58 Central Gate Way 7.5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------59 Neck Pro Head Restraint 7.5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------60 Glove light, Rear Sam Control Unit N10/8 Tele Aid, Comand APS 5
Neg---------------------- Pos----------------------61 Restrain Air Bag SRS, Child seat recognition 7.5
EMPTY---------------------------------------------62 Front Passenger and Driver seat adjust switch 30
EMPTY---------------------------------------------63 Lumbar Support 30
EMPTY---------------------------------------------64
EMPTY---------------------------------------------65 Not used –
EMPTY---------------------------------------------66 Pneumatic motor for multicontour seats 30
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------67 Air Conditioner Blower -Rear 25
EMPTY---------------------------------------------68 Heated seat and steering wheel 25
EMPTY---------------------------------------------69 – –
No Signal---------------Pos----------------------70 Trailer hitch 20
Pos---------------------- Pos----------------------71 Electric brake control for trailer 30
EMPTY---------------------------------------------72 Trailer hitch socket 15

 

Decided to look underneath before I dig in any further and notice what seems to be oil leaking (again). The brand new crate engine only has approximately 7,000 miles!! Stuck my finger in the hole and the pad is soaked. Thoughts?

 

Update...

Dealer determined battery was drained due to starter being bad. New battery installed and aftermarket starter (supplied by myself) installed by MB dealer. Dealer indicated everything was fine. Two-days later, (vehicle still at dealer), dealer informs me that new starter is bad and I need another new starter. Starter has lifetime warranty, so no issue there, but dealer wants labor charge again to install. What are the chances the original starter (~80k) and a brand new starter both go bad without warning? Anyone else think something else is going on?

Oil leak is believed to be from seals above oil cooler. This hasn't been investigated yet, but being looked at by dealer.

Edit - according to dealer, the ESP and ABS codes also disappeared with introduction of new battery.

 

The starter could be bad, it's been known to happen. It's frustrating that you have to pay the labor again, might not have had to if you purchased a MB part rather than aftermarket. I would think they would discount the labor a bit for the second go around.

 

The independent dealer where you car is stuck, seems to be building up your unhappiness level with good results, unfortunately.

You are on your second starter and second battery and now dealer wants to put in a 3rd starter...then next, a 3rd battery, right ? 🤪

Dealers and specialized indy shops use an OEM Xentry tool to troubleshoot these cars with guided procedures.

A no-crank condition does not involve any off the chart creative fixes. Getting stuck with battery and starter is "busy work" beyond amazing.

Instead of falling for the 3rd starter game... ask the shop foreman to "fix your no-start" condition.
🤞

 

Yeah, that’s valid. Definitely an ethics element involved here.

my 07 is on its original starter and second battery fwiw.

 

And, they've had the vehicle for 10-days already. It will be interesting to hear what they say today.

 

All the best. Hopefully it is just a rash of bad parts.

 

My 07 has original starter too but on third battery.

 

So, follow-up as I've had the vehicle back for about 2-weeks.

Starter determined to be bad. Replacement starter installed and defective. New starter installed and all has been fine. (total # of starters in vehicle = original + these 2)

Battery determined to be bad due to persistent draw from starter. Battery replaced under warranty. (total # of batteries in vehicle = original + replacement + this one)

ESP/ABS thought to be corrected after bad battery replacement, but dash illuminated again before leaving dealership. I asked for diagnosis of specific wheel speed sensor throwing fault and after replacing, all has been fine.

Oil leak determined to be turbo air inlet seal and breather seal. Work performed under warranty. We will have to see if I get another oil leak. Again, new crate engine only has 8,000 miles.

Thanks for all the support!

 

Since picking the vehicle up after the starter replacement and turbo seal leak, I've had a burning electronics smell in the vehicle upon start coming through the driver A/C vents. The smell dissipates. Any thoughts? Dealer indicates it is residual after starter replacement, which makes no sense as there was never an electronics smell.

All filters have been changed since the work was completed as well.

Thoughts?

 

Need more data. How/when/where does it happen? Do a series of controlled experiments using all combinations of all HVAC controls (temp, fan speed, vent modes), cold start, warm start, highway speed, city traffic, parking lot at idle. Give us the full load of data to work with.

Inspect from above using a bright LED flashlight. Crawl under the vehicle and lay on the floor looking up from below. Look closely at the starter from below.

What are you seeing/hearing/smelling?

 

​​​​​​this hot electric smell could well be your cabin blower motor and mosfet/resistor on high current.

Since this fan moves all the air you're breathing, it has first hand at mixing in the smell of its hot brushes.

A lot of these Eastern Europe sleeve bearing blower come from factory with a light lubricant and start whistling by 30kMi. The soft brushes crumble prematurely to move the tight spindle.

You said filters have been changed... including cabin filter behind the glove box??

Besides that the air separation between the cabin and the engine bay is fair so you can pretty much assume it is rare to get engine fumes near occupants.

 

you need to go tell your service advisor to think about that one again. Bunch of bull**** right there.