sbkim

I was pretty interested in ordering GL350 until my dealer asked me to sign a waiver of damage should I use bad biodiesel fuel (ie more than 5%). Is this common and why is this exclusive to bluetec engine in this area? I am now thinking GL450 to not have to worry about biodiesel related warranty issues. Anyone else?

cookstar

No such thing in Canada

fabbrisd1

skim - Polite question have you owned a diesel car/truck before in Illinois ?

The Euro diesel passenger car engines in the US can accept maximum B5 (5% biodiesel mix in ULSD).

There are no Euro passenger car/truck engines that can accept over B5.

Now, Illinois passed a sales tax waiver years ago for biodiesel over 10% mix, and the next available step up from B5 is actually B20 (20% biodiesel mix in ULSD). which can be only used in certain commercial vehicles, and specially modified/custom passenger vehicles (the biodiesel guys who hack-attack older Mercedes cast iron disel engines).

You were "properly" required by Mercedes and the dealer to sign acknowledgment of the proper factory specification that your car cannot accept over B5 (5% biodiesel mix in ULSD) - and there was absolutely nothing wrong in what they asked you to acknowledge - however, since you did not know about that subject, I understand it made you feel uncomfortable.

You can read more about this by using think link:

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/...your-warranty/

dgiturbo

Yeah, IL has this tax break to the station for using more than B5. There are several stations that sell the "good stuff", and MOST of those that do not have a little black sticker that says "Biomass blend, may contain up to 20% biodiesel." (Mobil and BP comes to mind here)

Here is what I suggest, go visit the stations you will most commonly fill up at and see if they have the sticker or if they use straight diesel. Also an internet search may guide you with fuel retailers formulas.

Now here is something to consider. NOBODY tests their fuel before pumping it in their vehicle, so who knows what anyone is actually putting in their vehicle. IL, FL, CA, TX where ever, all you do is trust the sticker or absence of a sticker and you have peace of mind.
Here's another strange thought, the RAM, Silverado and Ford SuperDuty series pickups all use this common rail injection clean diesel system now and they all are rated to run on B20.

Personally, I fill mine at which ever station has a price I am comfortable with when the fuel light comes on. B20 B5 B whatever. I have over 123000 miles on mine and NEVER had a hint of a fuel issue, or heard of any forum member that has. And there are lots of BluTec's and VW TDI's here in IL. Several even have out of State plates.
Also ask whoever refuels the dealers new vehicles where they fill the new BlueTec's at, and drive by that station. Willing to bet you will find it's a B20 station.

sbkim

Great info! Thank you so much

fabbrisd1

There isn't a Mercedes dealer in the entire US that will use B20 - that's a real stretch pal, to present a dramatization as fact.

There is a REASON why Mercedes requests MB dealers in Illinios for their customers to sign a acknowledgement - do you think this is because everything goes great with B20 in the newer MB diesels ?

What you choose to put in your 2007 non-warranty CDI is your choice.

If you have a warrantied Euro diesels (and remember this means Audi, BMW, VW too by the way not MB specific issues) - and then if you choose to use B20 -and if you have fuel-system-injection-pollution control issues, you can expect a warranty claim push back if it's related to B20 - so why take the risk ?

Nonsensical to assume added risk on a new Mercedes BlueTech over a few bucks on diesel... nonsensical...

JimBarnhart

Minnesota has been pretty aggressive on the ethanol front with gas burning engines, I sure hope they don't do the same thing on biodiesel and make it difficult to find good diesel for my GL350.

Mbenz260e

I have read about this issue in the past, it is unfortunate. Hopefully as popularity of diesel passenger cars in the USA increases such issues will resolve itself. Not sure how B20 impact the heavy trucks?

Virgina is considering eliminating their gas tax, but keeping their diesel tax, I assume because diesel is largely commercial use. Doesn't seem to make sense to push people away from more economical vehicles?

JimBarnhart

I just did a little research. Minnesota already has a mandate. Legislation signed into law in May 2008. Here's the statute:

Subd. 2.Minimum content. (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, all diesel fuel sold or offered for sale in Minnesota for use in internal combustion engines must contain at least the stated percentage of biodiesel fuel oil by volume on and after the following dates:
(1) September 29, 2005 2 percent
(2) May 1, 2009 5 percent
(3) May 1, 2012 10 percent
(4) May 1, 2015 20 percent

The May 1, 2012 date has been delayed 1 year to May 1, 2013 due to some other issues.

This brings up an interesting dilemma. It looks like Minnesota has passed a law which requires diesel to contain minimum biodiesel content. In fact other than a fortuitous delay in going to B10, my 2013 GL350 would have been burning B10 by law from the start. In contrast MB continues to sell vehicles in the state that will force me to violate the law in order to maintain my warranty.

It sure seems to me that MB should not be selling diesels in Minnesota.

sbkim

I was initially drawn to 350 for its fuel economy but never realized the complications of diesel fuel in the area. Not worth the $1000 annual savings on gas over GL450/550 for me.

blittle

Methinks that government is increasingly trying to control aspects of life that heretofore were left to our own discretion.

cookstar

no sales = no money, unless someone blows the whistle publicly they will continue

dgiturbo

Look, I was just adding a dose of reality for the OP to consider.
Yes, I agree that no MB dealer would INTENTIONALLY use B20 as a first time fill up, but don't assume they don't. The lot person taking the vehicle to do it's pre delivery fillup will go to the nearest station and get the vehicle back to the sale team for delivery as quick as possible. You think they will querry the fuel station manager as to the Biodiesel content and drive around till they find one? (The store manager probably doesn't even know themselves!) Want proof? The 2 MB dealers near me are surrounded by B20 stations for over 15 miles. I actually checked when I was considering trading for a 2012. Yet they sell and deliver BlueTecs with a full tank and under 15 miles on the odometer. In fact, next time you leave your dealership, swing by where you fill up your Bluetecs and look at diesel pump. You may be surprised to see the tiny "Biomass" sticker. Same senario also goes for my local VW and Audi dealer.
Several States have been quietly doing this for a while, have you seen a string of related failures? (eg. Starting in 2006 and just renewed, FL gives a 75% income tax credit for B10-100 and E10-100. Think the station owners there will pass this up?)
I understand what your point is, and yes, I have more flexibility since my wallet is my warranty, but the trend has been towards B20 nationwide for years now, and yet the Euro diesel groups are still selling products.

fabbrisd1

From what I am told Euro is getting very frustrated since they are being caught in a legal squeeze between California Air Resources Board and those other US states who are legislating incentives for increased diesel - California views diesel as the devil's work but they represent 40% of the Euro car market here in the US, and then the bio-diesel states push more messy bio-diesel content to very clean burning ULSD.

It's not the bio-diesel fuel - it's the incentives behind biodiesel and states continuing to penalize/tax diesel more severely than gas for their own revenue.

Between Cali and bio-diesel states - it's a severely conflicting spec/direction - in the long run one side or the other (California or bio-states) may lose out on future new diesels.

Keep the beat !

dgiturbo

That is exactly what I am afraid of happening. I really enjoy the power, cleanliness and 30MPG economy of my MB diesel, and want that option available to me when the replacement time comes.
Also I am sure MB and VW likes the fact that the BlueTec's and TDI's sell out as fast as they can build them.

Mbenz260e

Well said. I guess politicians will always appeal to the masses so they would rather cut gas tax and increase diesel taxes. In the end the commercial vehicles using diesel will just pass the tax on to their consumers...