When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I am looking to get some thoughts on if I should keep it or sell it.
I love this vehicle. It has 89k with 10k, or 1 year left on the warranty. I have just had the DPF replaced for the 2nd time (under warranty thank goodness). I drive 20 min to work but do get it out on the highway sometimes. My service writer tells me to sell it before it’s out of warranty. He sees nothing but expensive problems out of these.
I have been considering deleting or getting the ecu reprogrammed do deal with DPF, but I am not sure what to do. I have had many Mercedes gas and diesels, convertibles – SUVs and this is one of my favorites. I love the fuel economy, ride, size etc. But I do not want the drama of replacing 5k worth of emission stuff every 40k.
"It has 89k with 10k, or 1 year left on the warranty."
Presumably ... you purchased the extended warranty with the maximum mileage? I did the same, but with the minimum mileage extension.
In either event we face a serious decision when our 2015 vehicles are out of warranty. Major repairs are frighteningly expensive. Extended warranties are a relatively inexpensive because not everyone gets them ... unlike the OEM warranty. So, owners without extended warranties 'subsidize' those who were prescient enough to purchase them.
Regardless, 2015 GL vehicles will become unreliable and expensive ... not something on which to rely. As our GL550 is our only vehicle, we've already decided to part with it before the extended warranty expires in three years. If your GL350 is your only vehicle I recommend the same strategy, but you may have other vehicles available to reduce the risk ... although not the expense!
Aftermarket extended warranty is POS. In my case with no compression dealership wanted to charge me 5g for engine teardown because no check engine light was on. Plus there is maximum amount of labor it covers which put you in big expensive copay non coverage. As rubber houses and so on not covered in many times.
Is the vehicle paid for? if yes, then you could budget, say $4k annually, for repairs and keep using it. It will still be much cheaper than buying a new GLS. Just a thought.
"It has 89k with 10k, or 1 year left on the warranty."
Presumably ... you purchased the extended warranty with the maximum mileage? I did the same, but with the minimum mileage extension.
In either event we face a serious decision when our 2015 vehicles are out of warranty. Major repairs are frighteningly expensive. Extended warranties are a relatively inexpensive because not everyone gets them ... unlike the OEM warranty. So, owners without extended warranties 'subsidize' those who were prescient enough to purchase them.
Regardless, 2015 GL vehicles will become unreliable and expensive ... not something on which to rely. As our GL550 is our only vehicle, we've already decided to part with it before the extended warranty expires in three years. If your GL350 is your only vehicle I recommend the same strategy, but you may have other vehicles available to reduce the risk ... although not the expense!
I do have other vehicles. The little voice inside my head is screaming sell, sell i was just going to see if anyone could help me make an argument against selling. But it does not seem like it. I understand why MB stopped selling these. Makes me very sad.
The diesel makes it an easy reason for me to not keep it, I've seen a lot of people dealing with engine issues on the diesels. Hell, I have a 550 and I'm also considering to dump it before the ELW expires too, that GL has been to the dealer more times than I've ever have on my previous vehicles life time. There's so many electronics that go on these GL's that keep breaking, not sure if its the south Florida heat or what but, the reliability is not the best. I wish that was not the case because I truly like our GL.
So far:
Door actuators replaced - 3 doors
Cup holders heating\cooling stopped working
Message seats pump stopped working
Easy entry seating motor stopped working
Air Matic compressor replaced
A/C condenser replaced
& now the latest issue: Door sills have stopped illuminating (I'll wait for another problem to show up before taking it to the dealer).
I probably had about 8-10K worth of issues and I don't even have a diesel...
You also may need to drive your vehicle longer distances more often so to get in a regen cycle every 2 weeks or so or just buy a OBD reader that allows you to manually start the regens.
Oh and you may want to google DPF cleaning services in your area to see if they will clean your GL's.
Originally Posted by arsupisemnet
There is Liqui Moly DPF cleaning kit. Did you tried to clean it without replacement?
I am looking to get some thoughts on if I should keep it or sell it.
I love this vehicle. It has 89k with 10k, or 1 year left on the warranty. I have just had the DPF replaced for the 2nd time (under warranty thank goodness). I drive 20 min to work but do get it out on the highway sometimes. My service writer tells me to sell it before it’s out of warranty. He sees nothing but expensive problems out of these.
I have been considering deleting or getting the ecu reprogrammed do deal with DPF, but I am not sure what to do. I have had many Mercedes gas and diesels, convertibles – SUVs and this is one of my favorites. I love the fuel economy, ride, size etc. But I do not want the drama of replacing 5k worth of emission stuff every 40k.
Your experiences and views are appreciated.
That’s an interesting question and I guess the answer really depends on your unique personal situation. It also may depend on your location. For example, if you’re located in the U.S. I understand the maintenance costs on the BlueTEC are significantly higher than other countries because of the type of diesel fuel available in your region. This can vary from state to state within the U.S. also. I don’t know if you’ve heard about the whole ‘biodiesel’ problem, but I came across a lot of that when I was doing my research.
I am located in Canada and I just purchased a used 2015 GL350 because I felt it gave me the biggest bang for buck. Having said that it’s got considerably less mileage than you’ve put on your truck and I only expect to drive it around 18,000-20,000 km annually. Based on that, I’m ok with the expected maintenance costs of the Diesel engine.
I am interested in finding out if you had any other unexpected maintenance issues in your years of ownership. Would appreciate any other feedback you can share and what I can expect.
It’s to do with the type of diesel available in certain regions
Originally Posted by Mark Wasmuth
I do have other vehicles. The little voice inside my head is screaming sell, sell i was just going to see if anyone could help me make an argument against selling. But it does not seem like it. I understand why MB stopped selling these. Makes me very sad.
As I mentioned in my original reply, there was a mismatch between what these engines were designed for and what they were being fed. In many American regions and especially the south, the diesel contains a high percentage of biodiesel. It is referred to as B20 i.e. having 20% biodiesel as it’s component. The BlueTEC was designed for B05 diesel i.e. no more than 5% biodiesel in the mix. This is what caused all the engine problems in US and eventually forced MB to stop selling the vehicle. It’s still produced and sold in other parts of the world where the right type of fuel is available.
I thought Diesel Gate was why they stopped selling Bluetecs? This explains the frequent fuel filter change intervals and the mystery cleaner they use during oil changes.
Originally Posted by Choliya
As I mentioned in my original reply, there was a mismatch between what these engines were designed for and what they were being fed. In many American regions and especially the south, the diesel contains a high percentage of biodiesel. It is referred to as B20 i.e. having 20% biodiesel as it’s component. The BlueTEC was designed for B05 diesel i.e. no more than 5% biodiesel in the mix. This is what caused all the engine problems in US and eventually forced MB to stop selling the vehicle. It’s still produced and sold in other parts of the world where the right type of fuel is available.
I thought Diesel Gate was why they stopped selling Bluetecs? This explains the frequent fuel filter change intervals and the mystery cleaner they use during oil changes.
Having said all of that, I have contacted Sunoco and confirmed that they only sell B5 diesel in stations across the northeast. I specifically asked for New York and Pennsylvania because those are the states I’d travel to most likely.
If I were to travel to other states, I’d confirm with major fuel station operators in that region first.
If I were to travel to other states, I’d confirm with major fuel station operators in that region first.
Looking at your posts, I think you have partial information on the issue.
In Minnesota and Illinois for example, the bio percentage is prescribed BY LAW. (As an aside, it's a backdoor form of price support for soybean farmers and has nothing to do with being "green.") Thus, it literally doesn't matter which "brand" you buy as you will be receiving 20% in the summer and 5% in the winter.
The elimination of diesels by MB in the US has everything to do with VW's Dieselgate. MB was accused of some, but not all, of the same shenanigans as VW but then a change in administrations resulted in a different enforcement, um, "attitude." MB beat feet while they could and their strategy is to apparently wait for the whole thing to blow over. FWIW, it took lots on work on their part to re-certify the OM642 V6 in the Sprinter, so it goes to reason that the same engine in MB SUVs was also not likely previously meeting standards.
Meanwhile, biodiesel itself is good news and bad news.
Good news, in many regions in the USA biodiesel has a higher cetane number compared to the base fuel and it also has higher lubricity. Mixing a touch of bio (2% to 5%) is one of the easiest and safest ways to improve lubricity in what is otherwise "dry" low-sulfur diesel. Current biodiesel blends that meet ATSM standards burn cleanly and do not clog fuel filters, unlike earlier versions of biodiesel (prior to standards) that were a mess all around and really DID cause all sorts of long term problems including fuel filter clogging, injector deposits, and oil sludging. A modern engine will run just fine for a very long time on bio that meets standards.
The bad news is bio does not do well with DPF (diesel particulate filter) re-gen. This problem is caused entirely by MB's solution to meet emissions standards. As background, during DPF re-gen MB squirts fuel via the engine's injectors into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke and that fuel then burns very hot in the exhaust to clean the DPF. Since bio does not evaporate as quickly as diesel a tiny amount of the can fuel stick to the cylinder wall and get washed into the engine oil. It's not short-term problem, but it is an issue over time. This is the reason that MB recommends monitoring oil levels for increases. As the oil is diluted with fuel it also loses its protective properties and is more likely to sludge, so for both these reasons more frequent oil changes are recommended. And that's is not even considering all the components that require proper lubrication in the first place. MB had a chart that showed the problems of this oil contamination issue with B20 bio and with >10,000 miles between changes it was a major problem while at 5,000 miles it was not. (Some other manufacturers of large diesel engines use an additional fuel injector in the exhaust to sidestep the issue entirely.)
Thus, a visitor to a state with biodiesel >5% does not have much to worry about from a single tank and if they are concerned during a longer visit an additional oil change is the simple fix. The idea is to protect the oil and prevent a problem before it even starts.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
Last edited by cadetdrivr; 08-23-2019 at 11:59 AM.
From what I understand, if the diesel motors are almost always used for highway trips and get up to normal operating temps for extended periods of time, they are a lot less likely to have problems, even with bio-diesel mixture. They should also be using motorcycle oil instead of the recommended MB oil.
I had a dieselgate Touareg and drove it 238k miles, nearly entirely on freeways and most of that was long haul trips. That vehicle had failures in DPF, DEF, EGR, turbo and NOx hardware. Poor execution and unfortunately another large public snafu of diesel implementation in the US, preceded by the 1980s GM experience. The diesel cycle is good science, however its emissions aftertreatment has been bungled.
Interesting and that/this is why I change my oil every 5k miles and do manual regens. I just hope it works.
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
Looking at your posts, I think you have partial information on the issue.
In Minnesota and Illinois for example, the bio percentage is prescribed BY LAW. (As an aside, it's a backdoor form of price support for soybean farmers and has nothing to do with being "green.") Thus, it literally doesn't matter which "brand" you buy as you will be receiving 20% in the summer and 5% in the winter.
The elimination of diesels by MB in the US has everything to do with VW's Dieselgate. MB was accused of some, but not all, of the same shenanigans as VW but then a change in administrations resulted in a different enforcement, um, "attitude." MB beat feet while they could and their strategy is to apparently wait for the whole thing to blow over. FWIW, it took lots on work on their part to re-certify the OM642 V6 in the Sprinter, so it goes to reason that the same engine in MB SUVs was also not likely previously meeting standards.
Meanwhile, biodiesel itself is good news and bad news.
Good news, in many regions in the USA biodiesel has a higher cetane number compared to the base fuel and it also has higher lubricity. Mixing a touch of bio (2% to 5%) is one of the easiest and safest ways to improve lubricity in what is otherwise "dry" low-sulfur diesel. Current biodiesel blends that meet ATSM standards burn cleanly and do not clog fuel filters, unlike earlier versions of biodiesel (prior to standards) that were a mess all around and really DID cause all sorts of long term problems including fuel filter clogging, injector deposits, and oil sludging. A modern engine will run just fine for a very long time on bio that meets standards.
The bad news is bio does not do well with DPF (diesel particulate filter) re-gen. This problem is caused entirely by MB's solution to meet emissions standards. As background, during DPF re-gen MB squirts fuel via the engine's injectors into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke and that fuel then burns very hot in the exhaust to clean the DPF. Since bio does not evaporate as quickly as diesel a tiny amount of the can fuel stick to the cylinder wall and get washed into the engine oil. It's not short-term problem, but it is an issue over time. This is the reason that MB recommends monitoring oil levels for increases. As the oil is diluted with fuel it also loses its protective properties and is more likely to sludge, so for both these reasons more frequent oil changes are recommended. And that's is not even considering all the components that require proper lubrication in the first place. MB had a chart that showed the problems of this oil contamination issue with B20 bio and with >10,000 miles between changes it was a major problem while at 5,000 miles it was not. (Some other manufacturers of large diesel engines use an additional fuel injector in the exhaust to sidestep the issue entirely.)
Thus, a visitor to a state with biodiesel >5% does not have much to worry about from a single tank and if they are concerned during a longer visit an additional oil change is the simple fix. The idea is to protect the oil and prevent a problem before it even starts.
Looking at your posts, I think you have partial information on the issue.
Wow! It sounds like you’re way better informed on the whole diesel and biodiesel situation than I am. I was only going by what I found from reputable sources such as the article on driving.ca website.
Also, I’m not familiar with the technical inner workings of a diesel engine so can’t argue with any of what you’ve described but I’m sure that’s how it is and seems to make sense.
Here in Ontario, my understanding is that fuel stations sell only B5 and based on my email communication with Sunoco, they sell the same strain of diesel in those states. They made no mention of a different blend in summer or winter but I have come across that information elsewhere on the Internet.
Here in Ontario, my understanding is that fuel stations sell only B5 and based on my email communication with Sunoco, they sell the same strain of diesel in those states. They made no mention of a different blend in summer or winter but I have come across that information elsewhere on the Internet.
Yes, the bio % can vary wildly by state because some states have mandates while others do not. Once again, those mandates are for local economic concerns, not fuel quality or environmental concerns.
Here in MN we had a serious issue several years ago during the first winter with mandated bio as it gelled in many vehicles when the temperatures plunged. Since then the state has required the new ATSM spec, figured out the additives that work with bio, and lowered the required mix in winter.
One of the problems you have when researching the topic is the tendency of websites to copy each other and then old or obsolete information gets repeated.
The engine does have issues. There are timing chain failures and turbocharger/seal issues that can kill the engine. If you catch on time, the repairs are very labor intensive and expensive. The emissions items are a pain but are not the reason for so many engine failures. This 350 crapped the bed at 86k miles. That's around the mileage when many start having serious issues. https://mbworld.org/forums/gl-class-...86k-miles.html
S350d for 127,914 Euros. Diesel rules!
Just have to chime in as I have a GL350 (2014). I'm happy keeping it and servicing much of it myself (except the fuel filter). I'm at 82,000 kms. No problems other than I had the dealer replace one LED MB illuminated sill on the driver's side (a $500 part). I change the oil way more frequently than recommended. (I do it, then then the dealer, then me, etc). I only buy fuel from Petro Canada or Shell, the latter sells a better grade "V-Power" diesel which is like premium gasoline. But they both advertise low sulfur diesel. Down the line, I'm happy to pay a dealer to replace my timing chain should it be required. I find many Benz owners on the forum are "attentive" to the degree required to own one of their complex vehicles- but for the average consumer or rich guy, it's probably best to pay the dealer for whatever the vehicle requires and then some. The GL is more difficult to service than say the R class when it comes to the air filters, but not by much. And remember the S class had the same Diesel engine the GL (X166) came with, for the one? or two years it was available in North America 2012?). If I had more $$ I'd find a way to ship across to Canada this S class from Germany (photographed on a recent trip to Goettingen) - which still comes with a Diesel engine. So I agree, it's not the engine! Cheers.
Your link points to an x164. My 164 didn't have timing issues nor seal issues. I sold it at 121k miles.
I haven't seen an x166 with a dead engine on the x166 boards.
Originally Posted by BlownV8
The engine does have issues. There are timing chain failures and turbocharger/seal issues that can kill the engine. If you catch on time, the repairs are very labor intensive and expensive. The emissions items are a pain but are not the reason for so many engine failures. This 350 crapped the bed at 86k miles. That's around the mileage when many start having serious issues. https://mbworld.org/forums/gl-class-...86k-miles.html
08-17-2019, 08:39 AM
