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If it has happened to you, that would be "Way too often." That's unfortunate.
Can you provide the buyback numbers for transmissions, or any other fault?
I can't find any data - just forum posts, but it's hard to equate them to a general population of GLE owners.
I bought a Performance Auto, and I expect it to shift crisply, which it does when asked. Then, after I settle down and keep my foot out of it, so does the car, including downshifts. But the throttle response is so Immediate, that it's hard to be "gentle." If I spend a day or two resisting the urge to move quickly, the tranny becomes pretty lame, just like those "smooth shifting ZF's."
There's another factor in M-B's shifting algorithms - the speed that you depress the pedals. A quick stab on the gas is interpreted as your desire to move immediately, and it downshifts to the best performance gear for that speed. In other words, it's anticipating your intent.
If you only increase pedal pressure gradually, it probably won't downshift at all, and it won't "learn" aggressive driving.
Try Hyper-miling for an afternoon and see if your transmission doesn't learn to assist your hyper-miling. It kind of does.
BTW in Comfort, the final downshift coming to a stop is harder than in Sport, in my experience.
Or maybe focus on how much fun the car is to drive.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I get the rough downshift just about every single time I come to a stop now. After showing some signs of improvement early on, it has actually gotten worse in recent weeks. It will be looked at (along with the non-functioning charging pad) when my 450 goes in for its first service in a few weeks. Whatever the cause, I assure you it isn't something that I'm doing, and it most certainly is not normal.
I just experienced another weird issue. I accelerated pretty quickly from a dead stop, but stayed under 4500 RPMs, and the first shift seemed delayed. I felt the engine lurch and it stay in a heightened RPM state while it felt like the transmission didn’t know what to do. That was the first time I actually gave it some decent pedal pressure. Not very confidence inspiring. I hope that was a fluke but now I’m hyper sensitive to the thing and noticing delays and jerkiness on up shifts.
I just experienced another weird issue. I accelerated pretty quickly from a dead stop, but stayed under 4500 RPMs, and the first shift seemed delayed. I felt the engine lurch and it stay in a heightened RPM state while it felt like the transmission didn’t know what to do. That was the first time I actually gave it some decent pedal pressure. Not very confidence inspiring. I hope that was a fluke but now I’m hyper sensitive to the thing and noticing delays and jerkiness on up shifts.
So, was your first action on the gas pedal a quick, fast motion to the floor? If so, you were telling the transmission that you wanted performance, and it probably downshifted immediately and would hold that shift because your foot action taught it what you wanted, immediately. If you backed off at 4500, no, the transmission wouldn't know what you were doing.
I just experienced another weird issue. I accelerated pretty quickly from a dead stop, but stayed under 4500 RPMs, and the first shift seemed delayed. I felt the engine lurch and it stay in a heightened RPM state while it felt like the transmission didn’t know what to do. That was the first time I actually gave it some decent pedal pressure. Not very confidence inspiring. I hope that was a fluke but now I’m hyper sensitive to the thing and noticing delays and jerkiness on up shifts.
This is normal MB transmission behavior - not knowing what to do. And clunkiness. Lots of clunkiness. As @mikapen mentioned, pedal velocity has a large influence on shift logic. Faster pedal speed, and it doesn't need to be to the floor or the WOT button to be pressed, will command a rapid downshift, or skip-gear (2 gears) downshift.
I accelerated pretty quickly from a dead stop but stayed under 4500 RPMs and the first shift seemed delayed.
I felt the engine lurch and it stay in a heightened RPM state while it felt like the transmission didn’t know what to do.
That was the first time I actually gave it some decent pedal pressure.
Not very confidence inspiring. I hope that was a fluke but now I’m hyper sensitive to the thing and noticing delays and jerkiness on up shifts.
The above experience is an excellent account of this problem
Instead of working seemlessly, the ECU-Tranny pair acts goofy! Often times the engine is less than smooth and the tranny acts confused to various degrees.
When it works well, the gas pedal is velvet sensitive and the tranny works like it's not even there! The whole car is both responsive and nimble.
It is sad that this issue has been going on for so many years already - MB still has not retired these bugs or coded any additional DTC faults to flag the degraded performance.
It's a bit ridiculous that Bosch has not helped the OEM field with more effective troubleshooting tools.
This CAN integration bug lives under the radar, undetected because modules "work ok" for the most part. Great care was taken to design degraded operating modes with cleaver fault- tolerance instead of guaranting best performance. Module suppliers are stuck powerless against this Bosch networking chaos.
All car makers are impacted to some degree and no single stake holder can fix this widely shared environment - In other words the ROOT CAUSE is huge, all the way up there.
I've gathered this knowledge through ownership, professional background, this forum experience and hands-on testing practical fixes.
Modern cars are hightech computers systems I happen to love making work right
Dealers are left telling stories and providing free-car-wash therapeutics until the gravy runs out. The clunker then ends up looking pretty on a used trade-in lot.
This is a well executed business model where everyone gets a slice
> Practical hands-on :
Once you have run out of dealer help and in the rare case your problems persist then do these simple steps(*):
REBOOT the car bi-weekly
SCAN OBD Port for faults
FIX buggy modules
Modules swap data using buses. One crazy module (eg. blind spot, Keyless, ) can create CAN disruption and impact the work of 10 more. That is also 100% true for ECU + Tranny +... smaller/faster network.
To help sanitize these car, deal with faults by VIP priority.
(*): also true for other vehicle makes including coaches ✌️
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 07-12-2023 at 11:19 PM.
Reason: More info - - Root cause...
Mentioned hard downshifts when I dropped off vehicle for "B" service. They "performed ADTAPTIONS of trans module." Not sure what that is. Had a few hard shifts going from 3rd to 4th after that, but next day it was gone. Nothing but smooth shifting now. Just hope it stays that way.
I’ve got the 2020 GLS450, owned it for about a week now (love it). But I too have the hiccup kick-downs on the lower gears when coming to a stop. Another poster mentioned these 9G-Tronic transmissions are dual clutch. I don’t think that is correct? I do agree this downshifting pattern is very much like a dual clutch transmission, which I am very familiar with via 10 years of also having a VW GTI (2007, 2013, 2015 - MK’s 5,6,7), each with a slightly different version of the gearbox. My current 2015 is probably the best version yet for them. And it too hiccups in the lower gears when coming to a stop. Just the way it is for the design, but they must’ve finally figured out how to smooth it out better because they finally put it into the Bentley (they own Bentley).
However, I don’t think we have a dual clutch here. I think the hiccups are influenced by the EQ Boost battery recharging system off the brakes and a computer program that isn’t quite perfected between the release of the brakes and the downshift. I could be wrong here, but the link below is what I found on the 9G. I notice when after I do slow down and then speed back up again (without stopping completely), the battery is still recharging even though I’m completely on the gas and accelerating again. That somehow makes me think friction is still happening ever so slightly to generate the recharging effect to the hybrid battery?
I suspect the “reprogramming” done at the dealership is little more than the old tried and true process of holding down the gas peddle for 30 seconds while the ignition is on but motor is off routine to clear out the learning memory and reset the shift patterns back to default. It’s a common trick used on the 7G over on the E sedan when it starts acting lumpy on acceleration.
One thing I’ve noticed is that is doesn’t shift very well while slowing down to a stop. I can feel it and hear it slightly lurch as it downshifts as I slow to a near stop. The 8-speed ZF BMW tranny was smooth like butter; shifts were imperceptible.
well said my 2022 GLE 450 down shifts EVER time I come to a stop. 9000 miles of misery.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I don’t know for sure, but we might be talking about two, related, yet different issues here.
I have driven several GLE350’s, as Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach has them available as loaners. I’m currently driving one and have been for over two weeks now. It has a distinctive 2-1 jerky downshift and pretty much every GLE350 I’ve driven has been the same. It’s like if you are sort of feathering the brake pedal, trying to come to a nice, comfortable stop, then right before the vehicle stops, it lunges forward. Very uncomfortable.
I own a 2019 SL450. It has noticeable downshifts, seemingly “blipping” the throttle as the gears go lower. It feels fantastic and I love it in the sporty car. I assume that it was designed to operate like that and have never felt that it was somehow defective.
I had a 2020 S560 sedan and it had a very rough 3-2 downshift that MB said they could not fix, so they bought the car back.
My current 2022 S580 sedan has a very “sloppy” shifting transmission, especially at low speeds, going up or down a hill.
With the huge number of vehicles MB currently sells, I think if they can’t get the gear boxes right—and SOON—they would be better off buying their transmissions from the experts at ZF or even General Motors.. That said, if I had to guess, I’d say the issue is government fuel economy regulations, that causes MB to try and squeeze out the last, tiny fraction of a mile per gallon, to the point where the transmission software rides a razor thin line between operating properly and improperly. Our friend Wolfman knows a lot on this subject. Perhaps he will lend his wisdom.
I purchased my 2020GLE last year in May. I fall in love with it. But intermittently I have experienced the same when I have been at a stop light or at stop sign. Does anyone know what maybe the cause. It is concerning and I don't want to have to deal with transmission issues this early. Please advise and thank you
LE2020GLE
Originally Posted by justfair337
Wondering how you handled your situation. I seem to have the same exact issue with my 2020 GLE350. I took it to the dealer twice so far and I'm still having the problem. A couple days ago, I was at a highway ramp stop and trying to accelerate onto the highway and the gear wouldn't shift up from D1 for about 20 seconds. My wife even video recorded the dashboard and sent it to the dealer. They came back saying it could have been my mistake accidentally changing to Manual mode. ??? I looked at the recording again and the dashboard shows "D1" not "M1". I sent back the screenshot of the dashboard and no answer so far. It is a serious safely issue. I can't believe how MB is dealing with this matter. I am very concerned and wondering how other people with same issue handling this.
Mentioned hard downshifts when I dropped off vehicle for "B" service. They "performed ADTAPTIONS of trans module." Not sure what that is. Had a few hard shifts going from 3rd to 4th after that, but next day it was gone. Nothing but smooth shifting now. Just hope it stays that way.
Has noboby asked their dealer to do this? It worked for me.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
My feeling is that MB should buy their transmissions from a supplier that makes pretty much NOTHING BUT transmissions. The transmission in my $153,700.00, 2022 S580 shifts just horribly at lower speeds. It feels sloppy, clunky and not what one would expect in a flagship luxury sedan from a company like MB. Similar issues across most MB vehicles.
Last edited by Streamliner; 07-12-2023 at 03:17 PM.
Yeah these transmissions are terrible. However, the transmission in my S500 is considerably better than the one in my GLE. I would audibly hear and feel loud clunks on downshifts and it was not smooth and it would hesitate a lot.
My S500 is better but it’s still not smooth on downshifts with some hesitation, but I don’t experience any of the other issues. One thing I notice is that it shifts much more smoothly in Sports+ in my S500. It’s weird, you would think it should be the opposite.
Yeah these transmissions are terrible. However, the transmission in my S500 is considerably better than the one in my GLE. I would audibly hear and feel loud clunks on downshifts and it was not smooth and it would hesitate a lot.
My S500 is better but it’s still not smooth on downshifts with some hesitation, but I don’t experience any of the other issues. One thing I notice is that it shifts much more smoothly in Sports+ in my S500. It’s weird, you would think it should be the opposite.
Your experience is a fairly accurate description of this issue: HESITATIONS are the results.
Engine-Tranny CAN-C suffers from latencies introduced by disrupted modules. Usually there are "no-code" triggered to go after. It's all kept tightly under wrap unless you've earned a "limp-mode". Even that won't help you fix the root cause.
There is no sweet fix.... this is a snowball of issues that bug down CAN-C modules that in turn keep THE TRANNY BUS LAGGY.
You know it's doing well when tranny "shifts like a CVT " 😄: ultra fast seamless shifts. The tranny is always in the perfect gear for what power the engine is putting out.
The usual experience is confused tranny always late reacting to engine regardless of light/heavy throttle demand.
"Adaptations" help the shift timings but nearly do nothing to reduce overall lagginess.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 07-13-2023 at 10:38 AM.
Yes, this vehicle is trash and MB will not own up to it. It is the engine design that is the issue. The engine has to be replaced and I have only had it will be year and less than 100k. I purchased it as 32K and I now have 70K. Crazy. I am so done with this brand. There needs to be a class-action suit for the engine type m264 4-cylinder. I am now having to shop for another vehicle. I am beyond pissed. I have a 2020 GLE350 as well.
I just got a 2020 GLE350 CPO in canada. I noticed that sometimes (not always) when I stop at Stop Sign or Red Lights, and then starts the engine makes noise as if it is restarting.
Is it same as the transmission issue described in here?
This is my first MB. When I looked up I found videos on youtube saying this is a fuel saving feature where the car turns off the engine but I am not sure as it happens randomly on certain stop signs/red lights but not everytime.
I just got a 2020 GLE350 CPO in canada. I noticed that sometimes (not always) when I stop at Stop Sign or Red Lights, and then starts the engine makes noise as if it is restarting.
Is it same as the transmission issue described in here?
This is my first MB. When I looked up I found videos on youtube saying this is a fuel saving feature where the car turns off the engine but I am not sure as it happens randomly on certain stop signs/red lights but not everytime.
The start/stop system should work every time you come to a stop with your foot on the brake, unless you turn if off with the switch on the center console. The system is somewhat obtrusive on the 350 as opposed to the 450 with the 48V starting system.
There should be conditions that temporarily disable it such as running AC, Sport Mode and until the engine warms up. At least that’s been my experience with several GLE’s.
The start/stop system should work every time you come to a stop with your foot on the brake, unless you turn if off with the switch on the center console. The system is somewhat obtrusive on the 350 as opposed to the 450 with the 48V starting system.
Somewhat, there are exceptions to it, some aren't always intuitive ones. An example of such - stopping at the stop sign with no vehicle in front of you (or if the vehicle is moving) won't turn off the engine. It's somewhat smart but may confuse the hell of out of people.
>> "There should be conditions that temporarily disable it such as running AC, Sport Mode and until the engine warms up. At least that’s been my experience with several GLE’s."
Yeah the AC part is different between cars with ISG and without it. With 48V system, the AC is electronic and it keeps running on 48V battery when the engine turns off. Additionally, from what I learned looking at 48V draw and 12V voltages, when the engine is on, electronics are drawing from 48V system too, just indirectly, likely via DC-DC (48-12) converter. When the engine is off, on board electronics feed off 12V, which can be confirmed by a voltage drop.
Somewhat, there are exceptions to it, some aren't always intuitive ones. An example of such - stopping at the stop sign with no vehicle in front of you (or if the vehicle is moving) won't turn off the engine. It's somewhat smart but may confuse the hell of out of people.
>> "There should be conditions that temporarily disable it such as running AC, Sport Mode and until the engine warms up. At least that’s been my experience with several GLE’s."
Yeah the AC part is different between cars with ISG and without it. With 48V system, the AC is electronic and it keeps running on 48V battery when the engine turns off. Additionally, from what I learned looking at 48V draw and 12V voltages, when the engine is on, electronics are drawing from 48V system too, just indirectly, likely via DC-DC (48-12) converter. When the engine is off, on board electronics feed off 12V, which can be confirmed by a voltage drop.
08-24-2022, 07:18 PM
