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Not sure what the dilemma is. It is actually very simple. From posted above, your 450 is equipped with square 20" wheels/tires. You want to go to 21" or 22". You do NOT need to go staggered, unless you want to. Staggering is NOT required. MB chose to equipped 21" and 22" option as staggered fitment. You can go 21" wheels with 275/45-21 or 285/45-21 at all four corners or 22" wheels with 285/40-22 at all four corners. All before mention tire sizes are available with good quality A/S tires, but not necessarily MO labeled tires.
The 20” AMG wheels are also staggered offsets. The tires are the same but the wheels are different, et57 & et44. That’s a little over 1/2” difference.
I'm thinking 275/45/21 all around will be perfect.
Vredestein Quatrac Pro, carried by the TireRack, with severe snow designation while being Y speed rating, would be much pick if I were in Canada and wanted to stay with a single tire in that size.
The 20” AMG wheels are also staggered offsets. The tires are the same but the wheels are different, et57 & et44. That’s a little over 1/2” difference.
The 20"OEM wheels have identical width of 9" front and rear (the wheels and tires are not staggered). The 12mm lower rear offset is for the rear wheels to visually fill rear wheel arches otherwise rear wheels will look too much "in". Visually MB designed the car to be fitted with staggered wheels and tires. For square setup, lower rear offset is required to compensate. That, however, is not staggering.
The 20"OEM wheels have identical width of 9" front and rear (the wheels and tires are not staggered). The 12mm lower rear offset is for the rear wheels to visually fill rear wheel arches otherwise rear wheels will look too much "in". Visually MB designed the car to be fitted with staggered wheels and tires. For square setup, lower rear offset is required to compensate. That, however, is not staggering.
The wheels have staggered offsets as I said by 1/2”. There is no definition that says wheels the same width with different offsets aren’t staggered. The wheels run in a staggered track since the rear are wider than the front. They can not be rotated front to back without removing the tires and swapping wheel positions. Sure a 10” & 11” wheel are more staggered depending on the offset differential. A lot of people are surprised to find this out after purchase.
I bought 8.5” wheels all around for my winter tires (et45) and to the naked eye they look much the same as the factory position. There is about 1/4” difference-front wider and 1/4”-rear narrower and until you measure it’s very hard to see any difference because of the taper of the fender well.
Staggered means different front/rear width wheels to accommodate different front/rear width tires. Same width front/rear wheels with different offsets is NOT staggered. I've already indicated above why MB is using lower rear offsets on square setups. Any aftermarket square wheel application should follow this either with lower rear offset or if lower rear offset not available with 12mm rear spacer with similarly longer bolts.
Staggered means different front/rear width wheels to accommodate different front/rear width tires. Same width front/rear wheels with different offsets is NOT staggered. I've already indicated above why MB is using lower rear offsets on square setups. Any aftermarket square wheel application should follow this either with lower rear offset or if lower rear offset not available with 12mm rear spacer with similarly longer bolts.
First-Spacers are not recommended by most experts such as Tire Rack and Carid (even more so on a heavy performance SUV). I talked to both during my search for wheels. Spacers add more stress on the lug bolts. It’s done often, but maybe not a good idea.
Second-you have that reversed-12mm spacers on the rear would make them wider, it’s the front that are narrower at et57. I get that confused often too.
My Mercedes shop foreman referred to my wheels as staggered when discussing rotation. By definition they are staggered, but as you say the different wheel/tire widths give a more staggered appearance and are normally what is referred to as staggered. It’s a minor point but maybe not to anyone rotating their own tires. The 20” AMG wheels with staggered offsets on the 202x don’t look different. Even tire shops don’t always get it right. When I took mine in at 12k to rotate the tires, the installers double checked with me because they couldn’t see the difference and they wondered why I wanted the tires switched and RFBed.
First-Spacers are not recommended by most experts such as Tire Rack and Carid (even more so on a heavy performance SUV). I talked to both during my search for wheels. Spacers add more stress on the lug bolts. It’s done often, but maybe not a good idea.
Second-you have that reversed-12mm spacers on the rear would make them wider, it’s the front that are narrower at et57. I get that confused often too.
My Mercedes shop foreman referred to my wheels as staggered when discussing rotation. By definition they are staggered, but as you say the different wheel/tire widths give a more staggered appearance and are normally what is referred to as staggered. It’s a minor point but maybe not to anyone rotating their own tires. The 20” AMG wheels with staggered offsets on the 202x don’t look different. Even tire shops don’t always get it right. When I took mine in at 12k to rotate the tires, the installers double checked with me because they couldn’t see the difference and they wondered why I wanted the tires switched and RFBed.
While spacers are not ideal, 12mm ones are pretty conservative, especially now that the GLE has the larger 15mm lug bolts. Some may recall the many posts I made last year regarding adapting my W166 20x9 et57 wheels to this vehicle, including this one: https://mbworld.org/forums/gle-class...ml#post7911443. 12mm spacers in the rear gave me a near perfect match (within 1mm at rear) to factory specs for a 9" square setup. The problem has been finding extended lugs with a conical seat was impossible then; have not checked lately, but I doubt it's improved. I ended up having custom 12mm longer titanium bolts made (I still have an extra 10 if anyone would like to buy them from me). The setup worked great last year, though we did not have much snow to really test the tires.
Second-you have that reversed-12mm spacers on the rear would make them wider, it’s the front that are narrower at et57. I get that confused often too.
You need to understand how offsets work before posting that I got it "reversed". And no, unlike you, I am not "confused".
For the same width wheels, lower offsets will push wheels out toward fender's edge (OEM 9" wide et44 rear wheels), while higher offsets push wheels in toward the strut (OEM 9" wide et57 front wheels). The rear wheels are not "wider", nor front wheels are "narrower". They are identical accept for the offset difference which determines their relative placement on the hub (yes, front to rear rotation is not possible as with staggered wheels). So hypothetically if you have 4 aftermarket or replica wheels of say et55 and want OEM like fitment, you need to add rear spacers of 10mm to 20mm, does not need to be exactly 12mm. Now with spacers rotation is possible because spacers will remain on the rear hub, while wheels are identical including offsets. I'm done educating and replying to the posts based on ignorance rather on knowledge.
Yes GregW, you information was very valuable and was one of the reason I was delaying getting 167. On a positive side, I find most 167 21" and 22" wheels attractive enough for me not wanting to go aftermarket and what is more important that MB with 167 21/22 finally placed the wheels almost fender flush instead of deep into the fenders it used to before.
[QUOTEI'm done educating and replying to the posts based on ignorance rather on knowledge.[/QUOTE]
There’s no reason to get rude just because your “opinion” is questioned. I find a healthy disagreement useful but then don’t kid myself to think “I know it all”.
Obviously you aren’t familiar with AM wheels. The problem isn’t getting lower offset wheels for the rear but the higher offset fronts that can’t be fixed with spacers. The 12mm I thought we were discussing was my winter wheels. Spacing the rear isn’t the issue so excuse me if you switched the discussion to a new one. Once you go to 21” & 22” Wheels there are few if any high offset choices other than maybe Factory or a custom made Billet.
There’s no reason to get rude just because your “opinion” is questioned. I find a healthy disagreement useful but then don’t kid myself to think “I know it all”.
Obviously you aren’t familiar with AM wheels. The problem isn’t getting lower offset wheels for the rear but the higher offset fronts that can’t be fixed with spacers. The 12mm I thought we were discussing was my winter wheels. Spacing the rear isn’t the issue so excuse me if you switched the discussion to a new one. Once you go to 21” & 22” Wheels there are few if any high offset choices other than maybe Factory or a custom made Billet.
We clearly do not understand each other. You certainly do not understand anything I said. The best is to stop and I suggest to put me on ignore, I have.
The wheels have staggered offsets as I said by 1/2”. There is no definition that says wheels the same width with different offsets aren’t staggered..
RonS, I love the lively debate and sharing of opinions so I figured I would weigh-in right since clearly I have way to much time on my hands waiting for my vehicle. I just researched the use of the term “staggered” in the context of wheels and wheel figment and it’s pretty clear it is defined as having different width wheels/tires and not merely different offsets (see below link and general google search). In fact, “staggered” is used so often it is basically a “term of art” and although it can be used as an ordinary adjective as you have done (i.e., staggered offset”) this is typically avoided to reduce confusion. I know you said the mercedes foreman said it was staggered but it’s possible he was referring to your vehicles general set up or merely misspoke. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whee..._wheel_fitment
RonS, I love the lively debate and sharing of opinions so I figured I would weigh-in right since clearly I have way to much time on my hands waiting for my vehicle. I just researched the use of the term “staggered” in the context of wheels and wheel figment and it’s pretty clear it is defined as having different width wheels/tires and not merely different offsets (see below link and general google search). In fact, “staggered” is used so often it is basically a “term of art” and although it can be used as an ordinary adjective as you have done (i.e., staggered offset”) this is typically avoided to reduce confusion. I know you said the mercedes foreman said it was staggered but it’s possible he was referring to your vehicles general set up or merely misspoke. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whee..._wheel_fitment
Thanks I stand corrected. I always understood that the terminology normally refers to different sized wheels front and back. Mercedes has created an unusual half breed setup with the different offsets on the GLE AMG 20” wheels. Actually I picked up the term at the Dealership.
The most important point is that owners need to be aware that they are different. I wonder how many people have rotated them front to back thinking they are the same?
Very true, I had NO IDEA the offsets on my standard 20" AMG rims were different. I just assumed same tire size all around = same rim all around. Not the case, I had my dealer check my VIN to be sure and he provided me the following for my car....
"Your existing setup is 20”x9” wheels all around with an offset of 57mm front and 44mm rear"
Very true, I had NO IDEA the offsets on my standard 20" AMG rims were different. I just assumed same tire size all around = same rim all around. Not the case, I had my dealer check my VIN to be sure and he provided me the following for my car....
"Your existing setup is 20”x9” wheels all around with an offset of 57mm front and 44mm rear"
I learn something new every day in this forum!
The offset is shown on the back of each wheel as a way to keep them straight, but you have to look for it. This is one of my 21s:
Not sure what the dilemma is. It is actually very simple. From posted above, your 450 is equipped with square 20" wheels/tires. You want to go to 21" or 22". You do NOT need to go staggered, unless you want to. Staggering is NOT required. MB chose to equipped 21" and 22" option as staggered fitment. You can go 21" wheels with 275/45-21 or 285/45-21 at all four corners or 22" wheels with 285/40-22 at all four corners. All before mention tire sizes are available with good quality A/S tires, but not necessarily MO labeled tires.
can I use same 21 OEM rims on all 4 corners with same offset?
example: 10x21 ET 51 front and 10x21 ET 51 rear with 275/45/21 winter tires all round…?? Is yes, do I need spacers for rears since offset is the same?
can I use same 21 OEM rims on all 4 corners with same offset?
example: 10x21 ET 51 front and 10x21 ET 51 rear with 275/45/21 winter tires all round…?? Is yes, do I need spacers for rears since offset is the same?
The trick is to make sure that off sets don't cause a clearance issue. 20" GLE 450 have slightly different offsets front and rear.
Consider 20' ratherthan 21. I ran 20" et 35, 20" has more tire options than 21's. I had the larger 6 piston brakes in front and still had caliper clearance of 3/16". To get wheel options I used a GLE450 since most aftermarket guys won't allow you to spec a square setup from staggered, different wheel size or different speed ratings.
can I use same 21 OEM rims on all 4 corners with same offset?
example: 10x21 ET 51 front and 10x21 ET 51 rear with 275/45/21 winter tires all round…?? Is yes, do I need spacers for rears since offset is the same?
I use wheels from my W166 with 275s for Winter. I added 12 mm spacers in the rear to achieve stock offset. I have a set of 4 12mm extended titanium lugs if anyone needs them.
I use wheels from my W166 with 275s for Winter. I added 12 mm spacers in the rear to achieve stock offset. I have a set of 4 12mm extended titanium lugs if anyone needs them.
Just to be clear my car is a 2021 GLE 53.
so in order to use the rims I described I would need 12mm spacers + 12mm extended lugs for rear? (Because of rear having ET51 offset)
These are OEM rims just seems I have 4 fronts instead of 2 fronts of 10x21 ET 51 and rears being 11x21 ET 47 -> I have 4 10x21 ET51’s with 275/45/21 winter tires
10-14-2020, 10:08 PM
