toban

Does anyone know if the navigation software Mercedes 2020/2021 is using is made by Garmin? I thought I read somewhere starting on the 2020 Models Mercedes were using Garmin which in my opinion make by far the best software for Nav systems.

Anyone have any information on this?

Toban

superswiss

No, it's not made by Garmin. It's based on HERE Technologies, which Daimler, BMW and Audi own together. HERE is the former NavTeq company that Nokia bought and renamed, and then Daimler, BMW and Audi got together and bought it from Nokia. Mercedes used to offer Garmin Map Pilot as an entry level navigation system on some models. If the car had the SD card navigation preparation, you could buy the Garmin SD card from your dealership or third-party and insert it in the car. They still offer an entry level navigation system, but its now an in-house development. Basically just a version of the full navigation system with much less features.

https://www.here.com/

Ron.s

I thought Audi was using Google Maps now that they use Android for the base operating system.

superswiss

No Google Maps in Audis. The fundamental issue with Google Maps is that it relies on an online connection mostly. In-car navigation systems are designed around the idea that the entire map is available offline and you can navigate even if you don't have a connection. Google Maps only has very limited offline support. NavTech's mapping technology was always built around the idea of packaging up the map data. Back in the days it was shipped on DVDs and HERE expanded this idea to online map updates and OTA updates under Nokia. That's one of their key technologies. I used to use the HERE Maps app when it was exclusive to Windows Phone for overseas travel. It could download entire countries for complete offline navigation. Now we have the same capabilities in the cars with regular OTA/online map updates to keep the maps up-to-date in the car.

Audi used Google Earth for their satellite overlays until the end of last year, and they still use Google Local Search for their online POIs and Google Send-to-car whereas MB and BMW use the corresponding services from HERE. Audis current system (MIB3) does not run on Android as far as I know. Their Android project appears to have been abandoned and they moved to a system that's now being used by the entire VAG group, except for Porsche.

Ron.s

[QUOTE=superswiss;8338597]No Google Maps in Audis. The fundamental issue with Google Maps is that it relies on an online connection mostly.
Thanks...very informative info as always. I have used both M & G off and on for the last 2+ years and there is no comparison. In the Western States, Mercedes Nav is OK on a freeway trip but destinations and Live Traffic are not even close to Google Maps. When I reach a strange town I can almost always navigate by using the business name. Most of the time Mercedes can’t find a similar search and has taken me to a wrong location. Once it was on a street half a block away. If they try to use HERE for self driving they have a lot of work left to do.
When I have no cell service G Maps still works but it’s just a basic route. The M map is prettier though.

mikapen

You happen to live in the fastest growing Metro area in the U.S. I don't think ANY service will keep up with the miles of new streets (and construction) taking place there, Not my Garmin (gone), Google Maps, Waze (I quit), or M-B Command (now gone).
They just approximate unknown locations according to the universal street numbering protocol (for E-911), which most areas haven't fully adopted.
I haven't been to Boise in three years, but if any service can keep up with Meridian/Nampa, it's to be congratulated!

Ron.s

The mistakes haven’t been very new locations, two were businesses at least 4 years old. The Boise Valley reminds me of what started happening between Longmont and Denver 40 years ago. Google seems to keep updated fairly well but then they ask for user feedback at times-“was the location correct?”

superswiss

[QUOTE=Ron.s;8338705]Much of this is regional and depends on the data sources in your area and how well they are being kept up with changes. Here in Cali, the MB system in my '19 C63S has actually worked very well over the last two years. Traffic is accurate and it has never not taken me where I needed to go. Ad-hoc navigation to businesses has never really been an issue, but most of the time I look up my destination beforehand on my phone anyway, tap share and send it straight to the car. I only really look up businesses in the car if I'm stopping somewhere unplanned. Google Maps rarely comes up with better routes for me, in fact more often they are worse. One of the issues with Google Maps and the likes is that it indiscriminately routes through roads such as residential roads that were never meant or designed to handle through traffic to the ire of city managers and residents, so you end up stuck at some point merging back onto the main roads. Not to mention that some of the neighborhoods around here I'd rather not be caught driving through. I followed Google Maps one time and if it hadn't been for a traffic light turning red, I would have been caught in the line of fire of some deranged individual running out of an alley and shooting after a group of people that were running away from him into the street. So just saying, there are other factors to consider when it comes to routes.

Ron.s

I have used the Mercedes Nav exclusively for about 3 weeks to compare to Android Auto/Pixel 5 phone. So far I can’t find anything M that works as well as G Maps. This is pretty much the same experience I had with my 2020 GLE 450 in larger cities like Vegas, Denver & SLC.
Positive
Mercedes looks better.
Negative
Voice commands for routing = poor performance
Routing for construction or road closure lacking
“Live Traffic”-hours behind

Here’s a recent example of a 30 mile trip: Command was :Navigate to Timberstone Golf Course, Caldwell Idaho” ...Mercedes asked me to repeat and then provided routing to a subdivision in the Midwest. I cancelled Nav and did it step by step-Nav to; where would you like to go; destination name and it worked but not very fast. I followed the route guidance even though I usually go a different way. Ironically M picked a route with a road closure (closed for 5-6 months) and subsequent route was back to the same road on the other side of a freeway by backtracking. On the return I used G maps that used a Freeway more and was 20 minutes faster. I actually ignored the initial G map and turned onto the closed route and G map rerouted me away. This is probably a worst case example IMO, M will never compete with G Maps on Nav...not to mention the police alerts.
I had a similar experience where a road was narrowed to 2 lane traffic about 2 weeks prior causing traffic delays. M took me right through the construction, the shortest route and G routed around it. I assume some of this varies by location. Routing aside there is no comparison to voice search quality.

toban

I’m really disappointed in Ron’s report.
Sounds like I’m going to have to bring my Garmin portable with me and put it in the car instead of using the MB nav system. Too bad an owner feels they have to do this on a $100,000.00 car.
I called the dealer about how to update the USA maps since I am in Canada.They didn’t know. Service manager told my they just use a memory stick? Don’t think they even knew who to call and haven’t got back to me. To be honest, I don’t have a lot of patience for something that doesn’t work the way it should and especially when the people who should know don’t have answers.
Looks like I will be using my Garmin which I just updated and forget the MB nav system. Garmin works great and will just sit on my console.

Toban

superswiss

It may not work for some depending on where they live, so it's best you try for yourself in your area. However, bringing along a portable Garmin in this day and age is about as 1990s as it gets. I'm assuming you own a smartphone, so just plug it in and use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto and use Google Maps, Waze or Apple Maps for navigation if that works better. I do go back and forward between the MB navigation and Google Maps depending on where I'm driving and at what time of the day. I do have to say that on MBUX which is what the GLE now uses, CarPlay and Android Auto don't look as good, because they are not full screen. CarPlay is full screen in my C63S and looks very nice. My car is currently in the shop to get a cracked taillight replaced, so I'm in a GLC 300 loaner with MBUX and no MB navigation. We went on a day trip yesterday, so I used Google Maps via CarPlay for navigation, and it does look kinda horrible with the smooshed small window and all the wasted space left and right, but at least it's still integrated. I have my iPhone with me all the time, so I can always use it for navigation if I think it has better directions, but taking a portable GPS along and mount it on the windshield or something and having to put it away to make sure nobody breaks in is rather outdated.

TexAg91

I know this comment was tongue in cheek, but actually it is about as 2000s as it gets. It is amazing when you stop and think about it, with GPS being so ubiquitous now, but the first “garmin” did not sell until 1998, and they didn’t really become popular until the mid 2000s due to the costs. Remarkable progress really.

Brief history of gps car nav

mikapen

I can understand why maps are not fresh in the USA's fastest growing city for the last three years (Boise). In fact driving in Boise for the last 20 years has found all the maps spotty, regarding new roads - Google Maps included. (I just visit regularly, but don't live there.)

Just last weekend, we drove through Colorado's Front Range and found our onboard maps to have not only updated, but construction zones are now accurate, including changing day-by-day with new activities. There seems to be different "construction" icons, differentiating the long-term repaving of another highway, from a two day hotel access project.

Most noticeable, though, in the 30 mile crawl, Colorado Springs to Denver, was the instant changes showing slowdowns, changing from green to yellow to red, as I watch the traffic ahead. It was uncanny how accurate it was, both in location and time. The line of traffic ahead starts moving - the line changes from red to yellow, and as the cars ahead break free, the line turns green. If cars a half mile ahead slow, the M-B display shows yellow.
There seems to have been a big update, at least in our area. I don't know if car-to-car, car-to-?, or embedded pavement sensors initiating that information.

Also a new(?) feature I hadn't noticed, were restricted street parking in Boulder, shown in dark blue.
More - navigating through large shopping centers shows accurate routes to the actual storefront. Formerly, this was more approximate, and less detail about parking aisles and spaces weren't shown in such detail.

Google Maps did not show the instant traffic changes. Waze is lucky to get it on the same day!

So, in response to @Ron.s 's experience, there might be regional differences, OR, I received a new update that outclasses the competition.
There are other refinements that have appeared.

Note also that I have given up on Augmented Video For Navigation. It's cute but requires too many minutes of "eyes off the road." I disabled it and now I see intersections that I should drive past to get to the next turn, when that turn approaches. It's more "old school" but it only takes a glance.

cupecoy

The MBUX navigation is criminally out of date for many places, including areas of NYC which have been altered for over a year now yet that is still not reflected in MBUX.
Moreover the routing and matter of approach to many residential & business entrances overall is odd and often incorrect. The lane guidance is poor.

Ron.s

One reason G Maps is more up to date is that they obtain user feedback on map accuracy at times. They also have been at it longer with resources and user location tracking. Here’s a GMap screenshot of the road closure I mentioned earlier... note the red - that if you select it you get a message that the road is closed until Sept 2022. The other states closed until midnight. This is not recent but at least 5-6 months old with a Freeway overpass involved along with W&S/Bridge infrastructure. The Mercedes Map is still lacking the info.

toban

So, how or who do you call to inquire about any updates for the USA map updates? I’m in Canada. My Mercedes me shows I have had 2 updates for North America Canada/Alaska?

Toban

marchgroupinc

I finally got the maps updated for all North America after months of this not working. No help from Mercedes Canada or the dealer- they even told me to take it in to the dealer for problem solving but nothing changed from that service. I just kept checking for the download capability for updates and it finally showed on Mercedes Me where you could continue and select what regions you want to download.
Go to - Mercedes Me Acct. - My vehicles - Info. then scroll down to online map updates and use the updated download manager to complete the process to download to a USB. My versions are all now 340 including USA.

superswiss

For those who find the maps out of date in the car, the first step would be to login to the Mercedes Me portal, go to Online Map Updates and make sure their maps are actually up to date. The home region should be automatically updated OTA, but other regions have to be manually downloaded along with the voice recognition updates and OTA updates may not always work. COMAND 5.5 and MBUX get regular map updates. There's an update every 3-6 months. My car came with outdated maps from the factory and had several recent changes missing in my area. After two consecutive updates all those changes were there and the maps have only been getting better. You can also go to https://wego.here.com/ and look at the map data online. If you find it there, but not in your car, then your car has outdated maps. Like with Google Maps you can also submit feedback using their online map creator. I submitted one a while back for a road that was wrong and the fix was in the next update. It's all there, folks just have to use the resources, update their maps and provide feedback. HERE drives around with GPS and camera equipped cars like Google to map the roads. I see them in my area and they actually have a local office here. As for lane guidance, with the recent map updates the lane guidance at least in COMAND 5.5 is way better than Google Maps. It now even directs me onto recently constructed Express Lanes in my area, and off at the right time to make my exit. Google Maps doesn't do that at all.

Ron.s

I hope all of the mapping sources are successful but I think companies like HERE are at a big disadvantage. Anyone with an Android phone is constantly giving location info unless the user turns it off. There must be some powerful AI involved because location is tracked and integrated into every place you take your phone. Pictures are also involved in the process. My Google phone tags pics by location and if I allow them to be posted they will appear in searches. Pics far off-road like in Moab UT are bundled automatically by location and scenic attraction, trail, POI, etc. I have never made any update to map info but respond to a Google inquiry at times. Twice in the last year I was asked if my search location was correct and asked for feedback if it was not correct. A few more times I have been asked about things like a Shopping Mall location...”were you just in Dillards” for example. Periodically I receive a map travel history showing towns I visited. Street view/satellite seems to be available in almost any place I search-big city or small town. I assume Apple is doing much the same thing.
The Cell Phone guys can facilitate and compliment massive investment in self driving vehicle mapping with the Phone tracking that would seem to be a competitive advantage with a lot of free, up to date data.
There is also a reason that Mercedes and others don’t want to get locked into a relationship with a potential future Competitor. I hope I’m wrong because I’m not a big Tech fan nor of self driving cars.

superswiss

HERE also collects the same kind of data from more and more cars on the road. Via the Car-to-X service, your car sends information to the cloud that is passed to other cars. As somebody has said, traffic data seems to update instantly sometimes. I've noticed that, too, in my car when suddenly there's a congestion and within seconds it's reflected in the car's navigation system. It also sends weather conditions if your rain sensor detects rain, or your ESP detects a slippery road. It's sent to other cars and depending on the severity you may get an alert if you drive towards that area. I've been getting traffic related alerts for example if I was just driving along w/o an active navigation route, but the car detected that I was heading towards a traffic incident and suddenly it announced over the speakers that there was a traffic incident ahead. Google's approach is actually somewhat problematic, because they do have issues differentiating pedestrians with phones from phone's in cars. Google Maps regularly shows congestion on the residential streets in my neighborhood. It must think that all those people walking their dogs are stuck in cars. You may have also read about the guy in the UK I think it has who loaded a bunch of phones into a cart and dragged it down a street on foot. Google mistook it for a major congestion as he was trying to proof a point. One of the major benefits of the car's navigation system is that it is always there running in the background and I usually have the map up on the center screen at a 2 mile zoom level so I can see the traffic situation in the area and make my own route decisions, and the traffic incident announcements alert me to taking a look at the map to see what's going on. Many may not know this, but HERE is one of the companies working on high resolution maps for autonomous cars. The data they are collecting benefits today's maps, too. Maybe here in Silicon Valley we simply have much better data, because of all the tech companies that work on autonomous cars, and because things happen here first. Even Apple rolled out their recently improved Apple Maps for our area first, before rolling it out to other parts of the USA and internationally.

mikapen

I agree that the new update (automatic) is superior to Google Maps, at least for the time being. Waze doesn't even make it to the starting line.
New last weekend for me, was navigation into and out of HOV lanes. Previously using a HOV required guessing where to leave the lane in time to make your next exit. Google doesn't even know the presence of HOV's.
And as I posted above (#13) the instantaneous depiction of traffic slowing, stopping or resuming speed after the (shown) congestion.
There will probably be changes in functionality over time, but I certainly don't think M-B's NAV system is inferior.

Ron.s

Mine must be a retarded Mercedes Nav or maybe Google Maps just works better on a Google phone. I have wanted Mercedes Nav to do the job and keep trying it only to come away disappointed. The full screen integration has a much better look than the Plain Jane GMap. I still use my Mercedes maps much of the time when not out of town. You can see a HOV lane exit/entrance so if Google doesn’t list them I can live with that. We all have different use/needs so maybe we see features differently for our needs..
We may have different priorities but I’m used to Navigating in my car the same way I do on my phone or tablet-by voice commands. Anything else seems to be awkward, inconvenient or unnatural. We can cherry pick features but for all around quality of Nav you can’t beat Google,IMO. Try using a Mercedes command like”Navigate to the nearest Loves Truck Stop” or “How far is it to Las Vegas” in mid trip. Try “Navigate to Albertsons, Salt Lake”. When out of town on an all day trip voice commands become an important feature. When using MNav I’ve had my wife do a search on her phone but then it’s more distracting and easy to miss a turn.
With Google-when I ask for a Navigation route it usually gives me three options showing estimated time & fastest route. All You do is tap on one of the routes to start. For Mercedes live traffic, my experience is that the issue is late to appear in the system and doesn’t clear until we’ll after resolution. A lot of this might be location related but Google seems to tie into State and County Construction projects where M doesn’t have a clue. Earlier I posted a screen shot of a road closure that will span almost a year & nothing in MMaps. Google had routing delay info on another road widening project that has been ongoing for several months and M Maps still hasn’t a clue. I ran into a similar situation in Vegas this Spring. At some point reality begins to shape an opinion.
Last year I traveled to 8 Western States & several large cities for vacation/leisure so my experience isn’t just local. I might be wrong but if I were betting money my $’s would be on Google 1st and Apple 2nd.

superswiss

We clearly have made different experiences with the Mercedes navigation. I use it all the time for road trips and it always got me where I needed including proper rerouting around congestion and incidents. I always double check with Google Maps to see if it has a better route, so I have quite some data points between the two. As for finding destinations, I generally look up the destination in Google Maps on my phone before I even get in the car and then simply share it via the Mercedes Me app and then it pops up on the Nav screen shortly after starting the car. I do occasional ad-hoc searches with the "Navigate to..." voice command and that generally has work very well as well. Sometimes the online search service is down and then it doesn't work obviously. The one thing to be aware of is that most car navigation systems route through major roads and only use local roads for the last mile. That can sometimes result in an undesired route. For example recently I used it for one of my canyon runs. I put in the main road I was gonna hit up and the Mercedes navigation routed me in from the other end than I wanted to go, so I switched to Google Maps.

toban

This may be a dumb question, but are all the OTA updates done through the GPS in the nav system on MBUX?

If so, can you do updates as you are travelling down the freeway?

Toban

superswiss

No, they are not done through GPS. They are done through the mobile Internet connection and yes, they are done automatically in the background while you are driving around.