350 vs 450 GLE
08-29-2022 | 04:19 PM
#26
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From: B.C.
GL 320cdi, Chevrolet Avalanchero, GLE 350 (on order)
If were to put on your hat and consider a 450 standard non-AMG package, there are certain colors that I'm okay with, for example Selenite Gray or Obsidian Black that I think looks very nice with the chrome, but it has to have the 21" double 5-spoke wheel since it has the flared fenders. So there's that. I would be content with the engine choice, AND the color, AND my wallet.
08-29-2022 | 04:30 PM
#27
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From: Fredericksburg, VA
2020 Mercedes GLE350 4Matic; 2023 Tesla Model Y
That said, I believe you are correct that from the M/G back, the 9-speed transmission is the same on both models.
08-29-2022 | 08:30 PM
#28
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2024 GMC Canyon Denali..... 2018 Audi SQ5
Technically speaking no—the 450 has an inline motor/generator (M/G) sandwiched between the engine and transmission. I believe the M/G resides in the transmission housing, and the torque converter is between the engine and M/G. The 350 has the torque converter sandwiched between the engine and transmission. Thus if the M/G is acting as a generator it will feel similar to engine braking. Should the transmission then down shift 3-2 or 2-1, I could see where it could be more “jarring” than on the 350.
That said, I believe you are correct that from the M/G back, the 9-speed transmission is the same on both models.
That said, I believe you are correct that from the M/G back, the 9-speed transmission is the same on both models.
The ISG (integrated starter generator) sits between the engine and transmission and eliminates the normal flywheel found on the GLE 350. While coasting and in Eco mode it can disconnect letting the car move free with no resistance like a stick shift in neutral.The ISG may also mildly charge coasting, while driving and almost always charges the max when the brake pedal is depressed. Some of this depends on the battery “state of charge”.
There was a long thread from about a year ago with a lot of detail. There seem to be more than one ISG types now so some others may still have a flywheel. As I recall something I read recently, Mercedes is adding the ISG to a 4 cylinder engine in a different model for 2023.
Here’s the ISG source:
https://www.autocentral.com/doc/inte...generator-0001
Last edited by Ron.s; 08-29-2022 at 09:05 PM.
08-30-2022 | 08:18 AM
#29
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, Florida
2021 AMG GLE53 | 2013 SLK350 Sport
If were to put on your hat and consider a 450 standard non-AMG package, there are certain colors that I'm okay with, for example Selenite Gray or Obsidian Black that I think looks very nice with the chrome, but it has to have the 21" double 5-spoke wheel since it has the flared fenders. So there's that. I would be content with the engine choice, AND the color, AND my wallet.
Last edited by djgiovanni; 08-30-2022 at 08:22 AM.
08-30-2022 | 10:45 PM
#30
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Porsche Macan, SL400, ML350, GLE350
I do read and often listen to the advice of some knowledgeable contributors to this site. This is however more of an opinion question rather than a question that has a definitive correct answer.
Do you feel that it is foolish to purchase a new GLE 350 with the AMG package, which I believe is a $2900.00 option, or rather take that $2900.00 and put it toward a GLE 450? I know that the simple response is get the 450 with the AMG package. My honest answer is that I honestly don’t want to spend that much money. So for the sake of this comparison it would be one or the other. I currently have a 350 4matic and have not found it to be underpowered for MY needs. I do realize that many readers of this thread would never consider buying a 350. It seems that I really like the look of the AMG grill, and the other additions that come with the package. Would owning a 450 make me feel the hell with the grill, this was the way to go. I would like to know which configuration would have a better resale value, if there is any accurate data available. I kind of believe that the overwhelming majority of readers are going to say that the 450 is the way to go. Thanks for your indulgence.
Do you feel that it is foolish to purchase a new GLE 350 with the AMG package, which I believe is a $2900.00 option, or rather take that $2900.00 and put it toward a GLE 450? I know that the simple response is get the 450 with the AMG package. My honest answer is that I honestly don’t want to spend that much money. So for the sake of this comparison it would be one or the other. I currently have a 350 4matic and have not found it to be underpowered for MY needs. I do realize that many readers of this thread would never consider buying a 350. It seems that I really like the look of the AMG grill, and the other additions that come with the package. Would owning a 450 make me feel the hell with the grill, this was the way to go. I would like to know which configuration would have a better resale value, if there is any accurate data available. I kind of believe that the overwhelming majority of readers are going to say that the 450 is the way to go. Thanks for your indulgence.
I ended up ordering a GLE350 because the dealer told me that GLE450 has a minimum 8 month wait on it, they won't even let me put down a deposit on it.
Ask around first, and the time factor may help you make this decision as well!
08-31-2022 | 10:07 AM
#31
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From: B.C.
GL 320cdi, Chevrolet Avalanchero, GLE 350 (on order)
I was on the same boat a few weeks ago too.
I ended up ordering a GLE350 because the dealer told me that GLE450 has a minimum 8 month wait on it, they won't even let me put down a deposit on it.
Ask around first, and the time factor may help you make this decision as well!
I ended up ordering a GLE350 because the dealer told me that GLE450 has a minimum 8 month wait on it, they won't even let me put down a deposit on it.
Ask around first, and the time factor may help you make this decision as well!
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MikeSL (08-31-2022)
08-31-2022 | 11:15 AM
#33
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Joined: Aug 2022
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GLE350
This is weird because they are trying to tell me that I could speed up my order if I went to a 450. Maybe it depends on market, options and if all the allocation is spoken for? I already missed out on a 450 off the lot, so I'm content to wait however long it takes to get what I want. I have a feeling there is a lot of game playing behind the scenes among dealers, Mercedes and the regional offices, at least in Canada.
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mikapen (08-31-2022)
08-31-2022 | 01:11 PM
#34
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
Or another version of a declining economy could result in manufacturers only producing the high margin vehicles.
We seem to be having a k-shaped recovery from covid lows, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Which would mean more 450s and fewer 350s are built.
We have been seeing luxury brands gain in market share (ex supply chain disruptions), and the Bed Bath & Beyonds losing.
The next couple of years will be pretty unpredictable. I'll pull out my Ouija board and give an update later this week. 🤔 Now I have to figure out what questions to ask it.
08-31-2022 | 01:12 PM
#35
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
08-31-2022 | 06:53 PM
#36
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From: Jupiter, Fl
2022 GLE 450 (Black on Black)
I drove the GLE 350 before I ordered the GLE 450 4Matic. I found the 350 adequate and just as quiet as the 450 I now own. So go with your instinct if you feel that the 350 is the right vehicle for. your needs. The AMG package is a very nice appearance trim to have if the $2,900 is not a financial burden to you. Good luck with your choice.
09-01-2022 | 05:21 AM
#37
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From: Poland
GLE
I don't know when they plan to add the ISG to the 4 cylinder, but if you can wait it might be worth it. The ISG is already available on the 4 cylinder diesel in Europe. I test drove the version without it and with the ISG. Im the diesel, the ISG helps a lot with acceleration, especially when starting from a full stop. There is no turbo lag whatsoever.
09-02-2022 | 10:13 AM
#38
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From: B.C.
GL 320cdi, Chevrolet Avalanchero, GLE 350 (on order)
I don't know when they plan to add the ISG to the 4 cylinder, but if you can wait it might be worth it. The ISG is already available on the 4 cylinder diesel in Europe. I test drove the version without it and with the ISG. Im the diesel, the ISG helps a lot with acceleration, especially when starting from a full stop. There is no turbo lag whatsoever.
09-02-2022 | 10:35 AM
#39
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From: Costco
2023 S500
I don’t like the 48-Volt mild-hybrid either. Electric faults have become the number one service issue across all brands.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
09-02-2022 | 11:34 AM
#40
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 903
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From: B.C.
GL 320cdi, Chevrolet Avalanchero, GLE 350 (on order)
I don’t like the 48-Volt mild-hybrid either. Electric faults have become the number one service issue across all brands.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
09-02-2022 | 01:07 PM
#42
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From: Colorado
'21 AMG53 wDPP & ARC, 19 GLC300 - Former- 10&14 ML BlueTecs, 20 GLE450 E-ABC, 15 Cayenne D, 17 Macan
I don’t like the 48-Volt mild-hybrid either. Electric faults have become the number one service issue across all brands.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
However, the intent of these systems is not to directly save fuel, but to allow other mechanisms to reduce overall fuel consumption. The 48-Volt mild-hybrid system is meant to primarily support the engine start/stop feature, which does provide a decent fuel savings over the life of ownership assuming you leave it on and do a lot of stop and go driving. It supports the constant ignition requirements (which can overwhelm a standard car battery) while also allowing things like AC and other accessories to run even after the ignition is off; there is no accessory belt, it’s all electric now. It does provide a secondary benefit of using excess electric motor capacity to boost HP/torque values, but that is not the primary intent.
That’s why everyone is using these or starting to.
But the primary benefit of the hybrid part, is to increase throttle response.
With the 450, it adds power while the turbo spools up, it takes a big chunk out of turbo lag.
With the GLE 53, the 48 volt system ads power for that half second while the 48 volt supercharger spools up, which together address that almost 2 second lag that a non-EQboost, non-supercharged, plain turbocharged engine has.
Oh, and the optional active suspension. Winner winner.
Your comment are about electric faults may be true, but very few of them are attributed to 48v systems. Most of those cars electric faults don't even have 48 volt systems.
