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The Airlines Pilot Association is a labor union. It’s affiliated with the AFL-CIO. IBEW is a labor union as well and both of these provide training and have apprenticeship programs. I’m sure the public is more accepting of the airlines one because they set pilot flight limit hours and other pilot safety rules that directly affects us, the flying public. It’s no different than a factory union setting the same thing but the optics and impact are just different.
Some union members do themselves no favors by not holding their leaders accountable. I flew a Learjet into Milwaukee years ago and watched a large Gulfstream being catered. Out came bottles of wine and chilled champagne, Shrimp cocktail with huge shrimp, piles of gourmet sandwiches and snacks. We hung around to see who the passengers were. A large black limo pulled up. The front license plate had 3 letters.................UAW.
If my pilot union discovered union leaders going to dinner at Mortons during negotiations, there was hell to pay.
The IBEW and ALPA are Trade Unions, and the UAW is an Industry Union.
Industry unions were important in the '30s, but became irrelevant post WW2.
Now, with increasing bifurcation in earnings and wealth, Industry unions AKA labor unions may be relevant soon.
The "right to work" States don't ban unions. They just make it illegal for mandatory membership in unions.
Which means the unions actually have to offer a benefit, to attract members.
Unfortunately, many of the benefit claims they make while recruiting, are unfounded.
Edit: The UAW was essentially kicked out of the AFL-CIO in the '60s. That was when I was working for the UAW. An overpaid line worker.
They are the same. It’s semantics. Even UAW’s wiki page lists it as a trade union. Sure, IBEW may sound more affiliated in terms of what type of workers but that “electrical” doesn’t mean it’s any less a labor union than the UAW. They serve the same purpose. Trade and labor unions are synonymous.
VW's Chattanooga plant was low-hanging fruit for the UAW, or at least it should have been. VW has a history of being union-friendly, and in fact I believe Chattanooga was the only VW plant that wasn't unionized. (Yes - even VW's Mexico plant is unionized.) The only surprise here is that it took the UAW 10 years and three attempts to make it happen.
Through threat of extortion, the UAW will get VW's line workers a bit more pay and almost certainly better benefits. It will also provide employee protections, which is what matters to a lot of these folks. Personally, I can't imagine working a job that encourages me to do only what is absolutely necessary and actually discourages standing out in any positive way. I also can't imagine being a veteran employee and being perfectly happy with new workers earning the same benefits and wages. It will be interesting to see if Vance, BMW Spartanburg and the other southern assembly plants choose to follow Chattanooga's lead into the past.
VW's Chattanooga plant was low-hanging fruit for the UAW, or at least it should have been. VW has a history of being union-friendly, and in fact I believe Chattanooga was the only VW plant that wasn't unionized. (Yes - even VW's Mexico plant is unionized.) The only surprise here is that it took the UAW 10 years and three attempts to make it happen.
Through threat of extortion, the UAW will get VW's line workers a bit more pay and almost certainly better benefits. It will also provide employee protections, which is what matters to a lot of these folks. Personally, I can't imagine working a job that encourages me to do only what is absolutely necessary and actually discourages standing out in any positive way. I also can't imagine being a veteran employee and being perfectly happy with new workers earning the same benefits and wages. It will be interesting to see if Vance, BMW Spartanburg and the other southern assembly plants choose to follow Chattanooga's lead into the past.
New workers don’t have the same total comp package as tenured workers, in dollar terms.
They are the same. It’s semantics. Even UAW’s wiki page lists it as a trade union. Sure, IBEW may sound more affiliated in terms of what type of workers but that “electrical” doesn’t mean it’s any less a labor union than the UAW. They serve the same purpose. Trade and labor unions are synonymous.
UAW claims many things. I knew MANY of the fools who were working for the UAW in Belvedere IL...most (99%) were lazy drug addicts who would find some way to get on disability. UAW is an apathetic joke.
As for the vote at VW. Of course VW wants the union as when they close the EV plant the unemployment issues will be a UAW thing as opposed to a VW thing. Knowing this of course would require just a bit of information on the back end.
UAW claims many things. I knew MANY of the fools who were working for the UAW in Belvedere IL...most (99%) were lazy drug addicts who would find some way to get on disability. UAW is an apathetic joke.
As for the vote at VW. Of course VW wants the union as when they close the EV plant the unemployment issues will be a UAW thing as opposed to a VW thing. Knowing this of course would require just a bit of information on the back end.
I generally agree, but I wouldn't call those folks "fools" for taking double the going rate in the vicinity. I partially put myself through college, although I was embarrassed the amount of money I made for doing as little as possible.
Was a really hard job because the UAW "timekeepers" had the line slowed to accommodate 70 minutes for my job that took 12 minutes. That meant I had to look busy 80% of my time, instead of actually doing something. To me, it was exhausting.
But, yes, most of the people were lazy and enjoyed doing nothing. Little gaggles of locker room talk.
A friend of mine who worked there (at the time making PT Cruisers)....had to fix "post assembly, interior flaws" at 50+ hrs a week. Frequently he would go clock on, leave, head out for a bike ride and check out at the end of his shift and see if any cars had shown up to his area. He ended up tearing his rotator cuff (playing basketball) and spent years on 100% disability making 80% of his pay....He got the job ONLY because he was black (he would gladly admit that).
They should shutter the factory and move to Mexico.
Used to be every few years (in Illinois) we would get RN's who would want to unionize the nursing staff. I had the pleasure of firing two of the "leaders" on two separate occasions about two years apart (oddly). The final blow to the Socialist America experiment (and Obama care). We simply closed the hospital (rather large
facility in a bad part of town with an L1 ED. Unions used to have their place, that place is long gone.
Respectfully, may I suggest that we leave party politics out of this forum? I, and most MB owners want to express our opinions about our MB without political discourse.
Respectfully, may I suggest that we leave party politics out of this forum? I, and most MB owners want to express our opinions about our MB without political discourse.
Huh? Where is any political affiliation mentioned? I get the feeling your feelings were hurt with the mention of "Obama Care", that is the typical name for a failed Government program that does not have a party affiliation. That said, you do expose the apathetic side of one particular party who has no ability what so ever to cope with the hard realities of life.
EVERYTHING about Unions is Party Affiliation, everything. Right to work states can be mapped across party lines. Christ, folks need to HTFU.
People tend to stereotype all unions as evil communists but I personally don’t. These things aren’t so black and white as people make them out to be.
There are a lot of direct and indirect benefits that matriculated throughout society as a result of unions. One, that I’m sure everyone, across the entire political spectrum, can be grateful for is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which resulted in the 40-hour work week and abolishment of child labor, among other benefits, and championed by organized labor.
People tend to stereotype all unions as evil communists but I personally don’t. These things aren’t so black and white as people make them out to be.
There are a lot of direct and indirect benefits that matriculated throughout society as a result of unions. One, that I’m sure everyone, across the entire political spectrum, can be grateful for is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which resulted in the 40-hour work week and abolishment of child labor, among other benefits, and championed by organized labor.
Not so much, being as the "Pro Act" is 100% Union backed (and by a left leaning political party) - and will destroy tens of thousands of business' and people who earn their honest living...the Unions are giddy with excitement.
People tend to stereotype all unions as evil communists but I personally don’t. These things aren’t so black and white as people make them out to be.
There are a lot of direct and indirect benefits that matriculated throughout society as a result of unions. One, that I’m sure everyone, across the entire political spectrum, can be grateful for is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which resulted in the 40-hour work week and abolishment of child labor, among other benefits, and championed by organized labor.
That's when unions were important, and they did important things. That was 1938, fixing things that started in the industrial revolution, four decades earlier.
I don't call them evil, but in general I call them unnecessary.
The demand for skilled labor is increasing and the supply is decreasing. That's why we pay $185 an hour at the shop. Employers have to pay to play.
Business is - and will have to continue - increasing training and incentives to attract their workforce. Retention is more cost-effective than training a replacement.
I think they'll do a better job than any union, based on my experience on the State Workforce Board.
I have a few friends who are union reps. They are definitely Zealots. And not really in tune with how things work IMO.
I think you’re stereotyping every union out there based on the few overbearing bullying union extremities.
Again, I think unions do have a place in our society. I, for one, am glad there are unions, like the pilot’s union, policeman and fireman unions, air traffic controller unions, etc. I’m glad they’re there to help those people because they deserve good pay for what they do. And if a union makes them happy and they do a better job, great.
I like Trade Unions, because they train and improve.
So do the States and Feds, for that matter.
But not Labor Unions, to my knowledge. (Using my terminology.)
I do think it's valuable to have labor unions "on hand," in case things start deteriorating for workers.
They'll be here to thwart situations like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. 1896 setting.
I don't think we're there now.
I think you’re stereotyping every union out there based on the few overbearing bullying union extremities.
Again, I think unions do have a place in our society. I, for one, am glad there are unions, like the pilot’s union, policeman and fireman unions, air traffic controller unions, etc. I’m glad they’re there to help those people because they deserve good pay for what they do. And if a union makes them happy and they do a better job, great.
I ride with a guy who flies 787s....he is TERRIFIED of his union and wants out at all costs (but can not opt out). His reason for terror? Well, he wants to get a very common surgical procedure on his elbow and they could simply revoke his certification. The airline does not care, the FAA does not care...but....as a white (upper) middle-aged captain, DEI has taken over some of the folks in his Union and they want him to retire and fill his shoes with any women/trans/minority person they can, for any reason they can...I wish I was kidding.
[QUOTE=AlmonteVG;8958293]I’m glad for the workers that they will be represented by the union. I am a union electrician and 100% pro union. I don’t understand the resentment towards unions I really don't. Maybe not all unions are the same but I believe they are all seen with the same prejudice.
In my union IBEW local 164 obviously there are some bad workers but I’d say a small percentage and they barely stick around
Union aircraft workers leave out small things like the bolts that hold in the 'dummy' door on an aeroplane, is an example. Union aircraft maint workers not installing a wheel on a passenger aircraft properly and the wheel falls off on takeoff.
Last edited by HAILERS2; Apr 23, 2024 at 09:45 PM.
I ride with a guy who flies 787s....he is TERRIFIED of his union and wants out at all costs (but can not opt out). His reason for terror? Well, he wants to get a very common surgical procedure on his elbow and they could simply revoke his certification. The airline does not care, the FAA does not care...but....as a white (upper) middle-aged captain, DEI has taken over some of the folks in his Union and they want him to retire and fill his shoes with any women/trans/minority person they can, for any reason they can...I wish I was kidding.
Assuming your friend works for a US airline, this is BS, the union can’t revoke your physical. The FAA has sole authority over physical qualifications. He either has a valid physical or he doesn’t. If he leaves, his Captain seat will be filled by the next person in line. The union can’t abrogate seniority in favor of DEI.
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