EL-34

apparently this is the oil to use for direct injection engines although SN oils are MB approved.

my last DI engine used pennzoil euro 0w40 (SP) and that engine could have lasted forever so I have some faith in SP oil.

I've been using pennzoil platinum euro LX 0w30 for my M256 and it's only API SN.

what are your thoughts? why doesn't MB approve pennzoil platinum ultra-which is SP.

W205C43PFL

Pennzoil makes very nice engine oil, if your climate isn't constantly cold I recommend 5W instead. You could also consider using Motul. If I recalled correctly that is SP approved. You do want to make sure the oil is approved by your model in: https://operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com/

EL-34

This forum isn't too keen on oil I see. Time to join bobistheoilguy.com.

MB2timer

There are oil threads, on this site, as long as your arm. Use the search function, you will discover some very in depth conversation and information about oil.

FireRx Captain

I just pay the $230 and let MB do the oil change so there no ambiguity about quality of oil. With the 4 banger I don't want to leave anything to chance.

streborx

Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX lists the following specs and approvals:

Oil Specifications

Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Full Synthetic Motor Oil

Industry specifications:

• SN (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30**, SAE 5W-40, L SAE 5W-30, AV SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-60)
• SM (SAE 10W-60)
• SL (SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-60)
• SJ (SAE 10W-60)
• CF (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
• ACEA A3/B3-12 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE, 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
• ACEA A3/B4-12 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE, 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
• ACEA C3-12 (L SAE 5W-30, AV SAE 5W-30)

**Meets Engine Test Requirements

OEM specifications:

• BMW LL-01 (SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• BMW LL-04 (L SAE 5W-30)
• Chrysler MS-10725 (SAE 5W-40)
• Chrysler MS-10850 (SAE 5W-40)
• Chrysler MS-11106 (L SAE 5W-30)
• Chrysler MS-12991 (SAE 5W-40)
• Ferrari (SAE 5W-40)
• Maserati (SAE 5W-40, SAE 10W-60)
• Fiat 9.55535.Z2 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• Fiat 9.55535.M2 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• GM dexos2® (L SAE 5W-30)
• Mercedes-Benz 229.1 (SAE 10W-60)
• Mercedes-Benz 229.3 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• Mercedes-Benz 229.31 (L SAE 5W-30)
• Mercedes-Benz 229.5 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• Mercedes-Benz 229.51 (L SAE 5W-30)
• Mercedes-Benz 226.5 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• Porsche A40 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-40)
• PSA B71 2296 (SAE 5W-40)
• VW 501 01 (SAE 10W-60)
• VW 502 00 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• VW 505 00 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40, AV SAE 5W-30)
• VW 505 01 (AV SAE 5W-30)
• Renault RN0700 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)
• Renault RN0710 (SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30, SAE 5W-40)

While it meets the MB fluid approval for my G550, I've not used it (I began using Castrol's Euro formulation (also MB approved) and have no reason to change). I have been using Pennzoil's Platinum Full Synthetic 5W-30 formulation in my 70K mile Jeep YJ (4.0L), and the engine still runs like new. No oil loss, no starting difficulty, no engine problems of any kind. Most synthetic oils are made from petroleum ingredients. Pennzoil makes its synthetic from natural gas, and claims its process produces greater purity -- who knows?

EL-34

That's where the confusion is for me since SP is relatively new and suited for DI engines, perhaps MB and/or Pennzoil are just late to the SP bandwagon. Does it even make a difference?

I made a thread in an oil forum in case you want to follow..
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...d-oils.385111/

jkaetz

IMO the real problem is that MB doesn't list the requirement for a 229.52 or 229.61 specifications thus it makes it difficult to tell if an API SP oil will meet or exceed the requirements. That said, what is your goal? Warranty coverage? Maximize engine lifetime? Performance?

EL-34

Here's some background on the importance of SP...
https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en-n...sp-ilsac-gf-6/

Obviously I'd like to use the best oil possible that will meet the latest specs.

Apparently 229.51/52 oils include MB's own LPSI and timing chain wear mitigation tests although the oil (PP Euro LX 0W30) is still "only" classified as SN.

jkaetz

Right, the real question is did API SP copy the requirements from 229.51/52 or did they improve upon it. I suppose if the 229.5x oils get an API SP label on them then that will answer the question.

jkaetz

If the back photo is the genuine article, this seems to indicate that the 229.5x oils do indeed meet API SP standards. Or at least this one does.

petee1997

Why reinvent the wheel. Use the same oil that your MB dealer uses. It will be factory spec.

EL-34

I use the best. I always will.

You can use whatever you want with the 20,000 km oil change interval you're lead to believe is completely fine.

streborx

I don't know enough about motor oils to debate the topic. I simply use a MB recommended viscosity and MB 229.5 approved oil, which is why I'm currently using Castrol Euro Full Synthetic 5W-30 (which I believe is API SN). Costco's Kirkland brand and Walmart's SuperTech brand (both $20/5qt jug) are both API SP rated (probably both are the same formulation from Warren Oil), but neither carries any MB approval. Should I be using one of these oils (about $1/qt cheaper than Castrol)? I have no reason to change. But I prefer using an oil brand such as Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil1, etc. rather than a store brand labeled product whose source is unknown and perhaps changes year to year. I've been using synthetic oil for 40 years and have never had an engine on any vehicle (Euro, Asian or domestic) burn or consume oil after 100K miles, and I've never done anything more than use a manufacturer recommended oil. But I've always done oil changes every 5K miles without exception, and IMO this is as important as the myriad and oil specifications and approvals.

petee1997

What makes you think MB doesn’t use the best? Secondly what you makes you think you know more than the MB engineers that recommend the oil that should be used and the intervals to change the oil.

MB2timer

Just piggybacking on your reply. There could be additives in non oem recommended oil that cake up, clog etc. There could be additives missing that cling to some components or metals for lubrication, or corrosion protection. I don’t really know. OEM recommendations might be crucial, they might be a scam, but unless someone does exhaustive analysis, the manufacturer probably knows best, and is likely making the best recommendations.

jkaetz

First, MB has little interest in the best. They care if it makes it past the warranty period. I believe this is true of other manufacturers too. Second, I doubt the engineers are really the ones recommending the OCIs or oil grade. I generally believe that engineers make things to last forever, profit seeking then make them fail. Just look at all the failures across any product that could be eliminated by spending slightly more on components.

streborx

I think several decades ago, engineers did over-design systems and components because over-design cost less than analysis and testing. Today, computer analysis allows everything to be engineered down to the margin of failure. When manufacturing tolerances deviate, failures ensue.

petee1997

Why would MB recommend lower grades of oil if the oil is paid by the customer. Your argument does not make sense.

jkaetz

Because they are in the business of selling cars and service. If they really did their best work the service centers wouldn't be backed up for a month and people wouldn't buy as many new vehicles. Just look at all the people here who swear they will never own an MB out of warranty. Again, this isn't specific to MB.

I didn't believe this at first, but having seen our W164 age over 13 years and 170k miles I do now.

petee1997

You are entitled to believe what you believe. Good luck.

Wolfman

Don’t ask for comments in a forum if you are only looking for answers you like.

petee1997

No, but I have started my engine at -30F several times. I live in a cold climate. How about you, have you started an n engine at -50? Did you find a road in the arctic to drive your MB?
PS
It wasn’t noise, it was a fact. As far as ignorant ****, the jury is still out in my case. In your case, I think you have left no doubt.

Baltistyle

They are recommending an oil that works within their parameters for their warranty program. This choice also involves sponsorship and cost accounting. I have a Mobil one sticker on my Amg. Does mb service use Mobil one? Do they use another approved oil and not mobil one? That would be a contradiction to make user believe this is the best oil even when they don’t use it, same spec or otherwise. Engineers did not have access to certain oils to use and they could not recommend a product if it wasn’t on the shelves yet. Once the oil hits the shelves, it may take some time for mb to approve it because of cost and politics. This does not mean another oil is not better. It may just be not economical for Mercedes to recommend, service centers to carry, or people that abide by twenty thousand mile intervals to care or become educated about. Surely one can not dig in their heels that service centers offer the best value (performance vs cost) of product for all applications. My engines are always long lasting and spotless and Mobil one is not what I use. I use an appropriate oil for my application, environment, and driving style, not a sponsored bean counters post warranty car killing choices. Lots of threads and info out now that were not out ten years ago that will really open some eyes and shut some mouths out there in the etherspace.

happy to see some fun back and forth in this thread and hopefully both people are treated equally…..! iykyk