chkmte

Klasse Acrylic or Meguair Gold. Which is more durable, which reduces swirl marks better?

MBRedux

Swirl marks are mostly produced by a poor quality or dirty applicator, or by not properly cleaning and drying the paint before wax application. Also as you must know, cleaner waxes are a no-no. Most paint jobs today are clear coated, so you are no longer actually waxing the paint, but a hard 2 part nano-urethane clear. All high end waxes that are Carnauba based are pretty much the same, the only difference is how well blended this hard wax (that is ground up and blended) with the other ingredients... so only trial and error on your behalf will find the best wax for your car make, color, age of paint and cleaning habits.

I own a black Nissan GT-R, a black GLK Mercedes and my son drives a black VW-GTI and this is what we use, the best blended Carnauba wax on the market... However I dislike the new *deodorant* style applicator.




... and this is how well it works.... mirror-like and swirl free.... (easy to apply and easy to remove... lasts about 3 months)

cindyclk

I would read the sticky threads on this forum...
https://mbworld.org/forums/detailing...otive-care-37/

ergon

I don't have the time to read all of that. Anyone who does isn't going to wax anything but old and I'm close to 64 now. Waxes change every year so what's the best NOW? Griot's has been around for awhile. I'll start reading on that sticky when I need a nap.

ergon

Car wax Ratings Print
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Liquid or Gel Wax Approximate retail price





















Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 G12718 $18.00

69
1.03 18
Nu Finish NF-76 $8.00

68
0.50 16
Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus G7016 $13.00

68
0.81 16
3M One Step Cleaner Wax 39006 $10.00

67
0.63 16
Meguiar's Cleaner Wax A1216 $7.00

65
0.44 16
Mothers California Gold Carnauba Cleaner Wax 05701 $8.00

64
0.50 16
Autoglym Super Resin Polish $15.00
63
1.36 11
Mothers FX Synwax 20016 $11.00

55
0.69 16
Zymol Z-503 $15.00
55
0.94 16
Turtle Wax Carnauba Cleaner Wax T-6 $7.00

51
0.44 16
Eagle One Gel Wax with Carnauba 705110 $10.00

48
0.63 16
Turtle Wax Ice T-468 $17.00

40
1.06 16

Paste Wax

Nu Finish NFP-80 $8.00

71
0.57 14
Turtle Wax Ice T-465 $17.00

68
2.13 8
Mothers FX Synwax 20011 $14.00

56
0.81 18
Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 G12711 $17.00

55
1.55 11
Mothers California Gold Carnauba Cleaner Wax 05500 $12.00

54
1.00 12
Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus G7014J $13.00

47
1.18 11
Turtle Wax Carnauba Cleaner Wax T-5 $7.00

35
0.50 14

MBNA109

Ask the question in the detailing board....You'll get a million different answers.

I've alway been partial to time & ease so I use the synthetic wipe on & wipe off waxes (ie sealants) out there because they provide better protection against the elements, the shine is comparable on non-black cars & last longer than organic waxes.

Plus if you are pressed for time, the AIO cleaners/protectants mentioned below really saves the bacon.

Look up Zaino,Poorboy’s EX-P Pure Sealant, KLasse AIO or my favorite currently is the Optimum Poli-Seal+Optimum Opti-Seal

Lasts me anywhere between 3-6 months.

I use this site for my needs.

cindyclk

Wax does nothing for swirl marks. You will just cover them with wax. You need to remove them first. Go to the detailing link which will explain how to remove them. After you remove them almost any good wax (Griots/Mothers) will do.

Ergon...from the tone of your post ..you need the nap now!...sorry I tried to help someone who asked about their car.

ergon

Ever give any thought to how hard it is too put emotion into the typed word when over 96% is HOW something is stated the rest the expression and words utilized. You read in what wasn't there. Straight up, the sticky was far too varying and without any merit. I, in turn, posted "Consumers Report" report. Cindy, I have ADHD and reading that much confusion won't happen with me. Would you read it for me and let me know who came out on top.

MBNA109, Thanks for the info; Look up Zaino,Poorboy’s EX-P Pure Sealant, KLasse AIO or my favorite currently is the Optimum Poli-Seal+Optimum Opti-Seal. I've found a lot on YouTube. Thanks again sir.

cindyclk

Ergon, I f you can get off your high horse and read what seems to you overwhelming, you would see that "Meguiar's or Zaino or Klasse as recommended twenty bazillion times all over this forum" is the recommended choice. I for one do not rely on Consumer Report for car wax. I would rather hear from people who care about their car and have had first hand knowledge of the product and not act like lemmings with rating numbers.

MBRedux

"Cleaner" type waxes should be avoided at all costs, unless your paint is already ruined, then it doesn't matter.

MBNA109

I'm going to have to disagree with this MBRedux.
There is plenty of reputable sites out there & car enthusiast forums that have many first hand & expert recommendation for various AIO types sealants.

Now, it's always start with the less-more aggressive just like any other polish or detailing process. But I have gotten nothing but great results from reputable AIO like Klasse, Optimum, & Zaino.

MBRedux

So... what's the disagreement?

MBNA109

Why it should be "avoided at all costs".

ble2716

Here we go again................ WAX ON...........WAX OFF discussion. LOL

MBRedux

Because these new *harder* clear coats, especially the new nano-clear found on all Benz's can be easily damaged by abrasives (swirl marks) found in most cleaner waxes. Just because the clear-coat is hard, does not mean it will not scratch. It just means it will be harder to repair. The older and softer clear coats of yesteryear would scratch easier yes, but they were easier to repair because they were soft and malleable, so the scratch/swirl would blend out.

Todays clears are glass hard, very difficult to blend and smooth out any scratches/swirls because it isn't soft anymore. Ever try to remove fine scratches from glass? Very hard if not impossible... the effort may make thing worse... it's additive! Therefore unless your paint/clear is already oxidized, or damaged, cleaner waxes should be avoided mainly because of the pumice abrasives.

Link: http://www.hotbodywax.com/FAQ.htm#6 Some basic answers can be found here.... not a fan of hot wax though.

MBNA109

In your context yes.

However, since nano-coats are ceramic paint in effect, they can still scratch; just not as easily.

When a scratch does occur, not all the polishes or sealants on the market are capable of removing it from the new, hard-as-a-rock clear coats.

So I don't know why one can assume either way that it will scratch easily from AIO sealants (when it could have been scratched from poor pads, mits, or towels) vs. if the nano-paint was that hard, why it would scratch @ all.

These new gen sealants have repeatedly been labeled & shown that when used as directed they are no more abrasive - if not at all- than other reputable polishes dedicated to removing swirls & scratches.


That said, I have put a question to my detailing pros to have a bit more clarity provided specifically on MB paint.

jonnyrt

Everyone has their favorite brands, personally I LOVE Adam's Polishes products, they have a swirl & haze remover product, absolutely amazing. I fixed a 5 year old black swirled hood on my father's car using this product last year, looked brand new once I was done....

MBRedux

Well I see you like to jump around. The issue is whether or not "cleaner waxes" should be avoided on new nano clear coated paints. I say yes, which I have already explained above. You see, "sealants" are not "cleaner waxes" (read as *abrasives added*)... which are KNOWN to cause swirls on all paints but mostly noticeable on darker shades, (because of the low refraction of darker base coat color and higher reflectivity of the clear-top coat) (See GT-R above which is swirl free!). In my youth I worked in a ship yard spraying 60' yachts, then in grad school I worked summers in a customizing shop on LI as their chief sprayer/painter. Today I own a NISMO Tuning Operation where the majority of our clients have paint jobs that exceed the value of most cars on the road today and our paint booth cost a fortune. My clients are very particular about their cars, as we are. Techniques learned over this period have taught me that any abrasive product is a mistake to use on any modern clear-coated car even if the maker claims their cleaner wax to be "clear-coat safe". Why do you think manufactures try and calm the buyer down with statements like that if there wasn't any concern? It is a concern because it means that the sandy abrasives that they added to their *cleaner-wax" is a little smaller, thus a little "safer" but should only be used on older and damaged (read as oxidized) paint work where the owner wishes to *remove* that layer of oxidation just like 1600 sandpaper.



The Nano-Clear on our Benz's (now used on mostly every high end car made) was developed in part by Sikkens of Germany. It's a ceramic modified lacquer ... that's right, a lacquer. This newly developed clear lacquer, which contains microscopically small ceramic particles, hardens in the paintshop oven, forming an extensively cross-linked network. According to Mercedes-Benz, the paint is more effectively protected against scratches caused by mechanical car-washes, for example. The nano-particles provide a three-fold improvement in the scratch resistance of the paintwork and ensure visibly enhanced gloss over an extended period of time.

But it can be scratched, as in swirl marks, by the small pumice sand particles found in most "cleaner waxes", which when used over time will actually dull the paint. So with any new car paint job, I would avoid using "cleaner waxes" at all costs, and instead use a high quality non-abrasive wax (read as a non-cleaner wax) that works best for you. Wax the car every 10-12 weeks (depending on usage) using a super soft and clean applicator and a high quality super soft microfiber wax remover cloth (found at Target... yup target... they're orange on one side/gray on the other and super soft. These swirls and even slightly deeper linear scratches are extremely difficult to repair on these super hard clear-coats, if at all. The only product we found to be effective is a 3M Professional product called 3M Perfect-It III / Ultrafina SE... but it needs a special machine applicator and care to make a damaged clear-coat look almost new again.

MBNA109

Wut what?

I was addressing sealants esp. AIO sealants which by most in the industry they do have cleaners in them two I mentioned:
KLASSE AIO & Optimum- Poli-Seal both are under the category "sealants"
& do a very good job without scratching.


I don't believe for one moment that this is the only possible cause of micrscratches - there are too many variables such as pads, towels, wind, micro contaminates, or washing technique which may contribute to scratches.



I didn't advocate using a cleaner wax on new paint but only for the one MB vet who was seeking ease.
Heck I told some1 off line that they should use a non-cleaning sealant on new paint because it doesn't need any cleaning.

With that said, these AIO sealants have not shown any detriment that can be isolated directly to them & that many factors go into micro-scratches. In fact, unless one use more power - ie rotary - I highly doubt any car - esp. black cars - would affect concours quality one way or another just by applying AIO or any other chemical.

MBRedux

^ okay.... enough said.

PeteSC

To answer the original poster, I use the Meguiar's Gold and think it's great - easy to apply, dries fast, wipes clean with very little effort and seems to last a long time. After washing my car I can hand wax it in about 15-20 minutes.

And no matter how careful you are, swirl marks tend to appear over time. When I find that they're noticeable I use the Meguiar's SwirlX to remove them. Goes on/comes off just like any other liquid wax. After using you'll need to apply wax since the SwirlX is only a polish.

I don't maintain a show car, just a daily-driven GLK. I don't have hours and hours to detail my car so for me the Gold and SwirlX do an excellent job.

MBRedux

takes me 30 min. tops every 3 months... Griots washes well and maintains it's gloss too...

MBNA109

I will even say that paint isn't really new anymore once you get it in the dealer's hands & they 'prep' the car for sale & delivery.

The swirls and scratches could appear from contaminants trapped in the applicator pad or in the removal towel.

Most swirls are added during the washing and drying process so utilizing good technique with quality products is critical.

ergon

MBNA109, I need to know what "Griot's" product's I need. I know you need too see a shot of the car but she just got her paint straight. It took them four trips to get the finish right. I haven't been by to ask them what they used, but it seems a moot point at this time. I just need to know what to use now that it's right. I'll have to use a machine applicator, I'm disabled, if that has any bearing on your choices and pads. PM if you wish. Thanks for all of your input in this thread. It was what I needed.

Erich

MBNA109

will PM you.